FZ200 constant f2.8 lens

Started Jul 17, 2012 | Discussions
technic
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Re: FZ200 constant f2.8 lens
In reply to Don051348, Jul 17, 2012

Don051348 wrote:

A constant 2.8 is great, but it needs a zoom extension to keep up with Canon and Nikon offerings.

really, is buying a camera all about 'mine is bigger than yours' these days? Surprising that they still manage to sell a good amount of compacts

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technic
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Robiro wrote:

It is probably true. The lens design supports that:

difficult to judge from these shots, but the lenses don't look very different to me. With f/2.8 instead of f/5.2 at 108mm nominal, one would expect a front lens twice the diameter of that of the FZ150, or they discovered some optical miracle.

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sherman_levine
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They did change the aperture range on the lens picture
In reply to MaartenSFS, Jul 17, 2012

I think it might be true.

They tend to show the changes on the barrel, and I suspect the decals are preliminary (28 instead of 2.8, no "FZ200" decal, etc)

Sherm

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technic
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Re: Fake?
In reply to Elaka Farmor, Jul 17, 2012

Elaka Farmor wrote:

technic wrote:

Elaka Farmor wrote:

If the picture is not a fake this new constant F2.8 FZ200 will be very interesting to follow.

The constant f/2.8 must be a fake....

Are you sure?

No, nobody here knows for sure. But it seems extremely unlikely to me, given the VERY similar lens specs and very similar look of the lens. Far more likely that it is the same lens and they call it / 2.8/4.5-108mm' instead of '2.8-5.2/4.5-108mm lens'.

f/2.8 instead of f/5.2 at 600mm effective means almost twice the lens diameter is required compared to FZ150, assuming a similar lens design. The pictures don't look like that, not by a long shot.

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Don051348
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Re: FZ200 constant f2.8 lens
In reply to technic, Jul 17, 2012

technic wrote:

Don051348 wrote:

A constant 2.8 is great, but it needs a zoom extension to keep up with Canon and Nikon offerings.

really, is buying a camera all about 'mine is bigger than yours' these days?

Unfortunately, yes it is and it's also about capturing market share. Now 600mm zoom is quite sufficient, but when Canon is offering 840mm and Nikon just released a 1000mm guess what many folks are gonna buy, especially when they are offered in Best Buy with nary a FZ150 in sight. And is the target market gonna zero in on F2.8 or 1000mm zoom?

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Robiro
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to technic, Jul 17, 2012

technic wrote:

difficult to judge from these shots, but the lenses don't look very different to me. With f/2.8 instead of f/5.2 at 108mm nominal, one would expect a front lens twice the diameter of that of the FZ150, or they discovered some optical miracle.

I ain't no lens expert but I think the difference is in the size of one or two elements coming directly after the front element.

The FZ200 lens looks like having first three elements of equal size, slightly larger than FZ150, which only has the first element large.

But I do not understand how lens work. I could be mistaken. Somebody please correct me.

Panasonic did make a constant aperture zoom lens on a compact camera previously. However, FZ20 was quite big. We do not know the dimensions of FZ200 yet.

Let's wait for tomorrow.

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technic
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Re: They did change the aperture range on the lens picture
In reply to sherman_levine, Jul 17, 2012

sherman_levine wrote:

I think it might be true.

They tend to show the changes on the barrel, and I suspect the decals are preliminary (28 instead of 2.8, no "FZ200" decal, etc)

maybe the f/5.2 at the long end (as in FZ150) is preliminary and subject to change, so decided not to mention it on the lens barrel? Why do people insist on a dramatic and unlikely change, while there are far more likely explanations?

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sherman_levine
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to technic, Jul 17, 2012

108/2.8 = 38mm
Tight fit, but possible.

technic wrote:

Robiro wrote:

It is probably true. The lens design supports that:

difficult to judge from these shots, but the lenses don't look very different to me. With f/2.8 instead of f/5.2 at 108mm nominal, one would expect a front lens twice the diameter of that of the FZ150, or they discovered some optical miracle.

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Robiro
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Re: FZ200 constant f2.8 lens
In reply to Don051348, Jul 17, 2012

Don051348 wrote:

Unfortunately, yes it is and it's also about capturing market share. Now 600mm zoom is quite sufficient, but when Canon is offering 840mm and Nikon just released a 1000mm guess what many folks are gonna buy, especially when they are offered in Best Buy with nary a FZ150 in sight. And is the target market gonna zero in on F2.8 or 1000mm zoom?

But did you see those super zoom images? They are garbage. Past 400-500 mm it is just a marketing trick. A 1000mm image will be totally flat and without details, equalling a 2MP shot at the widest zoom.

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sherman_levine
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Re: FZ200 constant f2.8 lens
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Color me impressed (assuming it's true)
5.2 vs 2.8 at full tele means

Iso 400 where you'd need 1600 with FZ150 or
1/100 instead of 1/25

That's a very meaningful improvement

Sherm

Robiro wrote:

Don051348 wrote:

Unfortunately, yes it is and it's also about capturing market share. Now 600mm zoom is quite sufficient, but when Canon is offering 840mm and Nikon just released a 1000mm guess what many folks are gonna buy, especially when they are offered in Best Buy with nary a FZ150 in sight. And is the target market gonna zero in on F2.8 or 1000mm zoom?

But did you see those super zoom images? They are garbage. Past 400-500 mm it is just a marketing trick. A 1000mm image will be totally flat and without details, equalling a 2MP shot at the widest zoom.

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technic
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Robiro wrote:

technic wrote:

difficult to judge from these shots, but the lenses don't look very different to me. With f/2.8 instead of f/5.2 at 108mm nominal, one would expect a front lens twice the diameter of that of the FZ150, or they discovered some optical miracle.

I ain't no lens expert but I think the difference is in the size of one or two elements coming directly after the front element.

The FZ200 lens looks like having first three elements of equal size, slightly larger than FZ150, which only has the first element large.

But I do not understand how lens work. I could be mistaken. Somebody please correct me.

it is very simple: for a 108mm f/2.8 tele setting you need a front diameter of theoretically nearly 4 cm diameter. In reality often a much bigger diameter would be required, because of all kinds of optical issues. So in reality 5 cm diameter would be more likely. A 108mm f/5.2 tele setting as in FZ150 requires just 2 cm front lens diameter, plus some extra room like for the f/2.8 version.

There is no way you can get away with a smaller front lens. Now if the FZ150 has a front lens that has more than 4-5cm diameter, then theoretically one could change the internal design and make it a constant f/2.8 instead of f/5.2. But this is a dramatic change in the design which is EXTREMELY unlikely IMHO. I don't know of any constant f/2.8 lens with such a long zoom range, definitely not in such a small lens (maybe in some huge cine lenses).

Changing a few internal elements is probably just for improving optical quality, it is not going to change the effective aperture by so much - that would normally require a total redesign of the lens.

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Don051348
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Re: FZ200 constant f2.8 lens
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Robiro wrote:

Don051348 wrote:

Unfortunately, yes it is and it's also about capturing market share. Now 600mm zoom is quite sufficient, but when Canon is offering 840mm and Nikon just released a 1000mm guess what many folks are gonna buy, especially when they are offered in Best Buy with nary a FZ150 in sight. And is the target market gonna zero in on F2.8 or 1000mm zoom?

But did you see those super zoom images? They are garbage. Past 400-500 mm it is just a marketing trick. A 1000mm image will be totally flat and without details, equalling a 2MP shot at the widest zoom.

Of course it's marketing, just as the ever increasing megapixel wars is. But if you don't keep up you run the risk of losing market share. I actually would have been happy with a megapixel decrease in the FZ150 to 8 or 10meg to keep the noise levels down. But anything less than 12meg would probably be dismissed by the buying public.

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technic
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Re: FZ200 constant f2.8 lens
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Robiro wrote:

Don051348 wrote:

Unfortunately, yes it is and it's also about capturing market share. Now 600mm zoom is quite sufficient, but when Canon is offering 840mm and Nikon just released a 1000mm guess what many folks are gonna buy, especially when they are offered in Best Buy with nary a FZ150 in sight. And is the target market gonna zero in on F2.8 or 1000mm zoom?

But did you see those super zoom images? They are garbage. Past 400-500 mm it is just a marketing trick. A 1000mm image will be totally flat and without details, equalling a 2MP shot at the widest zoom.

Agree. Even if the lens is optically top quality, 300-400mm equiv. is going to suck in normal (long distance) conditions due to thermals, vibration and other issues. I have worked with 1200-2400mm telescopes in the past for normal imaging on the ground; the image will be good only for a fleeting moment, unless you are on vacation in the Atacama desert at the right time

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MaartenSFS
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Elaka Farmor, Jul 17, 2012

Well, the front of the lense reads the same.
--

  • Cheers, Maarten Sebastiaan Franks Spijker

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Robiro
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to technic, Jul 17, 2012

technic wrote:

I don't know of any constant f/2.8 lens with such a long zoom range, definitely not in such a small lens (maybe in some huge cine lenses).

I do. Panasonic FZ20. 36-432mm at constant f2.8.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonicfz20

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Elaka Farmor
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Another comparison:

This talk about constant f2.8 or not reminds me about the "sensor size talk" earlier this year about Canon G1X

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Robiro
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Elaka Farmor, Jul 17, 2012

Elaka Farmor wrote:

Another comparison:

I have copied that image to my image editor. I have then compared the size of the flash socket on both cameras.

The flash socket on FZ200 is smaller by about 20% compared to FZ150's socket.

Meaning, the FZ200 is by 20% bigger than as shown on your comparison shot!!!

Coupled with a visibly wider lens barrel, we are getting close to those 4 cm needed for a constant f2.8 aperture.

It looks very promising.

It is a constant f2.8 lens!!!

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Elaka Farmor
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

Robiro wrote:

The flash socket on FZ200 is smaller by about 20% compared to FZ150's socket.
Meaning, the FZ200 is by 20% bigger than as shown on your comparison shot!!!

Nice discovery! More and more exciting this

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scarabaeus
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

A hot shoe should be the same size on every camera.

By the way: I own a more than 7 years old FZ20... yes, along with FZ10 and FZ15, they were the only ultrazooms with constant F2.8 aperture. Till now, maybe.

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scarabaeus
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Re: It is probably true
In reply to Robiro, Jul 17, 2012

"The flash socket on FZ200 is smaller by about 20% compared to FZ150's socket."
I don't see such a difference, at all.

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