Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue

Started Jul 16, 2012 | Discussions
Horshack
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Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
Jul 16, 2012

First read my article on the D800 Left AF issue:
http://testcams.com/blog/2012/06/20/nikon-d800-left-autofocus-point-issue/

And then read the "Autofocus Problems" article Thom posted today:
http://www.bythom.com/

Right down to Thom's mention of a "star chart", which he says is not preferred yet DSC sells Siemens stars charts as backfocus checking/correction tools to professionals for thousands as dollars.

If he's going to paraphrase someone else's work and then go so far as criticize an element of it I think it at least warrants the courtesy of attribution. I gave him that courtesy in my article. And it's not like I need the extra link - my article has been on the front page of google's search for the topic since I posted it a month ago.

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Mike Cialowicz
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Horshack wrote:

If he's going to paraphrase someone else's work and then go so far as criticize an element of it I think it at least warrants the courtesy of attribution. I gave him that courtesy in my article. And it's not like I need the extra link - my article has been on the front page of google's search for the topic since I posted it a month ago.

He's not paraphrasing your work... he's probably never even seen your blog post.

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elliotn
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Mike Cialowicz, Jul 16, 2012

What makes you think he is paraphrasing your work?

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ShootDuringTwilight
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LOL, you gotta be joking!
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

You actually think that you are important enough for Thom to plagarize your post? Quit floating on cloud nine and come back to earth. No one cares about what you think, least of all, someone like Thom!

Some people on here have such inflated egos. Hilarious!

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Devendra
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do you ever shoot in real world?
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

or do you just shoot charts and scour the internet for issues and analysis? almost all your posts time and again go over the same things, over and over and over.

go out and shoot or just shoot with something that works. if you have af problem get it repaired, return it or do something else.

i have a d800 and it has left af problem, but its not stopping me to shoot! i will return it in a day or two and wait for d800e

Horshack wrote:

First read my article on the D800 Left AF issue:
http://testcams.com/blog/2012/06/20/nikon-d800-left-autofocus-point-issue/

And then read the "Autofocus Problems" article Thom posted today:
http://www.bythom.com/

Right down to Thom's mention of a "star chart", which he says is not preferred yet DSC sells Siemens stars charts as backfocus checking/correction tools to professionals for thousands as dollars.

If he's going to paraphrase someone else's work and then go so far as criticize an element of it I think it at least warrants the courtesy of attribution. I gave him that courtesy in my article. And it's not like I need the extra link - my article has been on the front page of google's search for the topic since I posted it a month ago.

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Horshack
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to elliotn, Jul 16, 2012

elliotn wrote:

What makes you think he is paraphrasing your work?

  • LV vs VF focus comparison methodology, including mention of "reference shots" which is the exact vernacular I used

  • Specific mention of required focusing distance to exhibit the issue

  • To my knowledge my article was the only one utilizing a Seiman's star, which I featured prominently as the recommended chart to use. Why would he go out of his way to to single out "star charts" as "not preferred" when there are countless other chart types that one might also consider unsuitable?

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Horshack
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Re: do you ever shoot in real world?
In reply to Devendra, Jul 16, 2012

Devendra wrote:

or do you just shoot charts and scour the internet for issues and analysis? almost all your posts time and again go over the same things, over and over and over.

1,000+ photos in my gallery.

http://horshack.smugmug.com/

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Horshack
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Re: LOL, you gotta be joking!
In reply to ShootDuringTwilight, Jul 16, 2012

ShootDuringTwilight wrote:

You actually think that you are important enough for Thom to plagarize your post? Quit floating on cloud nine and come back to earth. No one cares about what you think, least of all, someone like Thom!

Some people on here have such inflated egos. Hilarious!

I don't have preconceived notions about my importance or popularity and if you knew me you'd also know I don't have much of an ego. Ego's are liabilities in the field I work in. My evaluation of the similarities was based solely on what IMO was an objective analysis of the two articles.

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primeshooter
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Horshack wrote:

First read my article on the D800 Left AF issue:
http://testcams.com/blog/2012/06/20/nikon-d800-left-autofocus-point-issue/

And then read the "Autofocus Problems" article Thom posted today:
http://www.bythom.com/

Right down to Thom's mention of a "star chart", which he says is not preferred yet DSC sells Siemens stars charts as backfocus checking/correction tools to professionals for thousands as dollars.

If he's going to paraphrase someone else's work and then go so far as criticize an element of it I think it at least warrants the courtesy of attribution. I gave him that courtesy in my article. And it's not like I need the extra link - my article has been on the front page of google's search for the topic since I posted it a month ago.

Why not email him then?

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Horshack
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to primeshooter, Jul 16, 2012

primeshooter wrote:

Why not email him then?

I sent him a link to my OP right after I posted it. He emailed me back and said he's never been to my site.

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ralphcramdon
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Horshack wrote:

First read my article on the D800 Left AF issue:
http://testcams.com/blog/2012/06/20/nikon-d800-left-autofocus-point-issue/

And then read the "Autofocus Problems" article Thom posted today:
http://www.bythom.com/

Right down to Thom's mention of a "star chart", which he says is not preferred yet DSC sells Siemens stars charts as backfocus checking/correction tools to professionals for thousands as dollars.

If he's going to paraphrase someone else's work and then go so far as criticize an element of it I think it at least warrants the courtesy of attribution. I gave him that courtesy in my article. And it's not like I need the extra link - my article has been on the front page of google's search for the topic since I posted it a month ago.

you should know better than to post anything here asking for any sympathy or you do now.....this is the sewer of internet photo sites

sorry you got ripped off, especially by hogan, the guy who started his d800 review by saying the d800 was a d700 with more MP-s....
Hogan is the new KR

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primeshooter
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Horshack wrote:

primeshooter wrote:

Why not email him then?

I sent him a link to my OP right after I posted it. He emailed me back and said he's never been to my site.

Sigh, I would quit whilst you are ahead friend!

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bob elkind
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Horshack wrote:

... If he's going to paraphrase someone else's work and then go so far as criticize an element of it I think it at least warrants the courtesy of attribution.

If Thom Hogan pinched or paraphrased your blog post, he did a horrible job.

After reading both your blog post and Thom Hogan's blog post, I see no reason to suspect theft of your ideas or your prose.

If you feel strongly about this, your first recourse is to contact Thom Hogan directly. If you don't get satisfaction from Mr. Hogan, your next option is to seek a second opinion from qualified legal counsel, which might lead to legal action. With legal action, of course, it is incumbent upon the plaintiff (you) to prove economic damage directly attributable to the alleged actions. (note: I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV)

My opinion is that you have judged incorrectly, and your interests and reputation will be best served by ceasing this pursuit as quickly as possible. Even with giving you the benefit of the doubt, the evidence of plagiarism is far from compelling. Without clear-cut evidence, you are digging yourself a hole by trying your case so stridently in this public forum.

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anotherMike
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+1 Agreed
In reply to bob elkind, Jul 16, 2012

The procedure for testing AF isn't so proprietary that only the OP or Thom or anyone else can really claim anything here, and the two articles to me, while covering similar topics, aren't close enough for me to think it's word theft.

Sorry Horshack; you're wrong on this one. You've contributed some nice things on this forum for sure, so I'm a fan, but in this case, best "ride on" and concentrate on other things.

-m

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AZBlue
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

So you own the trademark to "reference shots"®? You also own the laws of physics, which are common across all lenses, cameras, and authors? Oh wait, I suppose you also own Nikon's AF technology as well, since Hogan was discussing the appropriate target to use for Nikon's technology? Or do you also own the design to the types of targets?

I think you need to take another drag on that doobie...

Horshack wrote:

elliotn wrote:

What makes you think he is paraphrasing your work?

  • LV vs VF focus comparison methodology, including mention of "reference shots" which is the exact vernacular I used

  • Specific mention of required focusing distance to exhibit the issue

  • To my knowledge my article was the only one utilizing a Seiman's star, which I featured prominently as the recommended chart to use. Why would he go out of his way to to single out "star charts" as "not preferred" when there are countless other chart types that one might also consider unsuitable?

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jjnik
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Re: Thom Hogan and the sincerest form of flattery: Left AF issue
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Horshack wrote:

elliotn wrote:

What makes you think he is paraphrasing your work?

  • LV vs VF focus comparison methodology, including mention of "reference shots" which is the exact vernacular I used

  • Specific mention of required focusing distance to exhibit the issue

  • To my knowledge my article was the only one utilizing a Seiman's star, which I featured prominently as the recommended chart to use. Why would he go out of his way to to single out "star charts" as "not preferred" when there are countless other chart types that one might also consider unsuitable?

Horsehack,

Maybe you're reading into this too much? Mansurov's tested in pretty much the same way (LV vs VF AF) and used the term "reference" shots as well:

http://mansurovs.com/how-to-quickly-test-your-dslr-for-autofocus-issues

...it seems like the logical way to test? Also, I've seen other posts mentioning the use of the Siemen's Star (maybe they got from you?) that Thom may have also seen? I would not be so upset about this as it's not like someone stole an invention of yours or something of value here, and it's entirely plausible he never saw your site or any info directly pulled from it in the first place.

In any event, I thnk most here do value the work that you have done in identifying the issue, but having someone more "visible" such Thom highlighting the issue on his site as well will only help drive awareness and pressure Nikon to make sure thay do the right thing for all affected cameras.

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bob elkind
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The issue is Thom Hogan? uhh.. no
In reply to ralphcramdon, Jul 16, 2012

ralphcramdon wrote:
...

you should know better than to post anything here asking for any sympathy or you do now.....this is the sewer of internet photo sites

You have an interesting approach for persuading others to your point of view... Does this (insulting your audience) really work for you in real life?

... hogan, the guy who started his d800 review by saying the d800 was a d700 with more MP-s...

That's an apt 4-words-or-less description, for those who are not interested enough to read the rest of the review article. If you are trying to run down Thom Hogan, you should find a different example.
--
Bob Elkind

Family, mostly sports. Seriously, folks, I'm not that good. If I can do it, you can do it!
photo galleries at http://eteam.zenfolio.com
my relationship with my camera is strictly photonic

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Horshack
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Thom's response and my legal disclaimer
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

Thom has contacted me via email and strongly denies having ever visited my site or reading my article regarding the D800 Left AF issue. Although I feel there are strong similarities between our articles, Thom has provided me a plausible explanation as to how those similarities came about through his own independent thought and analysis and so I will concede that the similarities of our articles were entirely possible without his willful or unintentional paraphrasing of my content.

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Horshack
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Re: +1 Agreed
In reply to anotherMike, Jul 16, 2012

anotherMike wrote:

The procedure for testing AF isn't so proprietary that only the OP or Thom or anyone else can really claim anything here, and the two articles to me, while covering similar topics, aren't close enough for me to think it's word theft.

Sorry Horshack; you're wrong on this one. You've contributed some nice things on this forum for sure, so I'm a fan, but in this case, best "ride on" and concentrate on other things.

Fair enough, and thanks for weighing in (both of you). It's hard for me to not be subjective since I have an obvious vested interest but in trying to look at it objectively I can see a persuasive case from either point of view.

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nikonjohn
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Horshack - Thom may have seen your article but I don't think..
In reply to Horshack, Jul 16, 2012

his article was a case of plagarism.

Many aspects of the approach you and Thom outline are really just SOP for testing a camera's autofocus system. I used much the same approach when I was having problems with my D200 autofocus many years ago. Having read about how live view works for a couple of years in magazines and on the web, I ran some comparisons when I was testing the focus sensors in my initial D800. It just seemed like the smart thing to do and it further highlighted the problems I was seeing; particularly on the left side.

That's not to say that I don't think that your article is very well written or that it doen't provide some excellent recommendations on testing the D800 autofocus sensors. As far as the star chart goes, I developed my own chart in Word using horizontal and vertical lines, with a row of letters every few lines. I figured that the sensor ought to pick that up with no problem. I don't think advising readers to avoid star charts when testing the D800 autofocus sensors requires attribution but that's just my opinion.

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