Is 24 MP enough?

Started Jun 20, 2012 | Discussions
ET2
ET2
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Is 24 MP enough?
Jun 20, 2012

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/06/20/50000-gigapixel-camera/

Note this part: "The researchers believe that within five years, as the electronic components of the cameras become miniaturized and more efficient, the next generation of gigapixel cameras should be available to the general public."

Does anyone really believe 24 MP is the highest for APSC? I predict in the next 5 to 10 years, we will be over 100 MP on APSC ...

zefelder
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

100MP pixel peeping and zillion threads comparing a 85MP sensor to a 100MP sensor at 100%? I hope your theory is wrong

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thubleau7
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How about no pixels ?
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

Truly this will be the next break through no pixels just a solid image.

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Frenske
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

What's the point of a zillion pixel camera other than maybe scientific/engineering application?

A. At the moment people print or view photos at devices much lower than 16MP e.g. my monitor is 2MP.

B. The human eye has its limits in resolving resolution. Why go beyond that many many times other than advertisement reasons.

There is little point in doing this with 2D sensors. The evolution in mega pixels probably goes in parallel with 3D imaging and maybe not only measuring the light intensity but also direction. The extra dimension requires substantial addition in number of pixels.

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rio911
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to Frenske, Jun 20, 2012

Frenske wrote:

What's the point of a zillion pixel camera other than maybe scientific/engineering application?

A. At the moment people print or view photos at devices much lower than 16MP e.g. my monitor is 2MP.

B. The human eye has its limits in resolving resolution. Why go beyond that many many times other than advertisement reasons.

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Hi,

But you seem to have missed the recent news about the new MacBook Pro with 2880×1800 screen resolution, or 220 PPI. I found this article very interesting: http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/06/14/what-resolutions-we-can-expect-when-all-macs-have-retina-displays/

rio

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Dave Oddie
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

ET2 wrote:

http://www.photoclubalpha.com/2012/06/20/50000-gigapixel-camera/

Note this part: "The researchers believe that within five years, as the electronic components of the cameras become miniaturized and more efficient, the next generation of gigapixel cameras should be available to the general public."

Does anyone really believe 24 MP is the highest for APSC? I predict in the next 5 to 10 years, we will be over 100 MP on APSC ...

I think the question should be what is the maximum number of pixels we will ever require and can any sensor(aps-c, full frame, 4/3) be engineered to deliver that. I do not think the "megapixel" race will be a never ending one.

Going beyond 24mp is certainly not out of order. A 60mp camera would allow you to have some cropping room for a 30 x 20 print.

Now given you won't produce that many of those some way of using the sensor to deliver lower megapixel files without cropping (so your lenses work the same) would be required in my opinion.

you have to say if you want higher resolution you have to use a bigger sensor. Just as you could only enlarge the finest grain 35mm film so much before you had to move up to 6x6 or 6x7 you will still do so with digital. Not because in future it won't be possible to have very high mp aps-c (or FF) sensors but because the trade offs in usability mean (as you did with film) you accept there is a practical limit.

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tbcass
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Re: How about no pixels ?
In reply to thubleau7, Jun 20, 2012

thubleau7 wrote:

Truly this will be the next break through no pixels just a solid image.

That's already been done. It's called analog.

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tbcass
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to rio911, Jun 20, 2012

rio911 wrote:

But you seem to have missed the recent news about the new MacBook Pro with 2880×1800 screen resolution, or 220 PPI. I found this article very interesting: http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/06/14/what-resolutions-we-can-expect-when-all-macs-have-retina-displays/

How valuable the extra resolution depends on the size of the image. I compared an old iPad with a new one in Best Buy but the difference was barely visible so in my opinion the extra resolution is pretty much wasted on that small screen. Up to 4mp computer monitors exist now. To take advantage of even 24mp the screen would have to be about 6' by 4'. I would say 80-100 mp displays would be useful only for movie theaters with gigantic screens. It gets to the point where high resolution has little practical value for the average person. For cameras such resolution would require better, very expensive lenses than most of us have now.

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thubleau7
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Re: How about no pixels ?
In reply to tbcass, Jun 20, 2012

True, but I was talking about a digital collection of an image that does not consist of pixels.

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TrojMacReady
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Look at the Nokia 808
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

It was predicted to be crap with 41 MP on a sensor much smaller than the one in the RX100/V1/J1. But that turned out to be false. Boatloads of resolution, enhancing the quality at "regular" viewing or print sizes aswell (don't forget we're talking about Bayer sensors). And even in low light able to outperform higher end compacts like the LX5 that have 4 times less pixels.

It means that indeed say 7 years from now, we're going to laugh at threads discussing 24 MP on APS-C, just like how we do now looking at threads discussing how 6 MP to 10 MP is so much worse than 4 MP.

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thubleau7
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to Dave Oddie, Jun 20, 2012

Well I have a 27inch 120HZ Samsung monitor and the resolution is less than the 24 inch Dell Monitor it replaced and I can't pick any difference.

The strange thing is though if you have ever stood in front of a 60inch LED screen at 60HZ and a 60inch led screen at 120HZ you can pick the difference straight away.Just the refresh rate makes a big and noticeable difference............must depend on size,thats where you would notice the difference in pixels.

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Jabez02
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to tbcass, Jun 20, 2012

A quick once over in a store on an old iPad as against the latest iPad is no different than doing the same for a DSLR. Having them at home under more normal lighting conditions and actually able to run a comparison app on both iPads ( or the same photograph)will certainly show up the differences with most people.

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theswede
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The megapixel war will end when the gigapixel war starts.
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

The megapixel war will end when the gigapixel war starts.

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jeffcpix
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to Jabez02, Jun 20, 2012

Massive files are great for those who need 'em -- and
have the processors to make them reasonably convenient to handle.

And once you've got that sort of resolution -- how much are
you willing to spend on the lenses necessary to match it?

Anyone wishing to jump to the next level might want to check out the
Leica S2.
Body = $23K + lens $7K = $30K
Or a BetterLight Scanning back.
About $10K (and up) plus the camera and lens.

How many 35mm size camera/lens combination in the film days were capable
of printing over 20"x30"?
That's why god invented MF and LF.

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Frenske
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to Jabez02, Jun 20, 2012

Be careful with users experience and reality, differences can be in dynamci range, contrast, etc. Although probably the old ipad resolution is below the resolution of the human eye.

Apple calls it retina screens since it supposed to have similar resolution as the human eye when the device is held at working distance. The retina screen of the 13" is about 5MP which is still a far smalller number than 24MP.

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Rand 47
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to tbcass, Jun 20, 2012

tbcass wrote:

rio911 wrote:

But you seem to have missed the recent news about the new MacBook Pro with 2880×1800 screen resolution, or 220 PPI. I found this article very interesting: http://royal.pingdom.com/2012/06/14/what-resolutions-we-can-expect-when-all-macs-have-retina-displays/

How valuable the extra resolution depends on the size of the image. I compared an old iPad with a new one in Best Buy but the difference was barely visible so in my opinion the extra resolution is pretty much wasted on that small screen. Up to 4mp computer monitors exist now. To take advantage of even 24mp the screen would have to be about 6' by 4'. I would say 80-100 mp displays would be useful only for movie theaters with gigantic screens. It gets to the point where high resolution has little practical value for the average person. For cameras such resolution would require better, very expensive lenses than most of us have now.

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Tom

I can easily see the difference in the two iPads. In addition to increased resolution there is a dramatic increase in color gamut. Comparing a photo on the two displays, the difference is astonishing. And the increased resolution is very visible, IMO, and welcome.

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alphacam
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

uh oh. The end is near!! The 41MP cell-phone cam guys are overtaking the big cam guys!!
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2406011,00.asp

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Tom2572
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Re: Is 24 MP enough?
In reply to ET2, Jun 20, 2012

I can't wait to see what a battery looks like on a 100mp sensor.....

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KingH
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Re: The megapixel war will end when the gigapixel war starts.
In reply to theswede, Jun 20, 2012
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ET2
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Re: Look at the Nokia 808
In reply to TrojMacReady, Jun 20, 2012

TrojMacReady wrote:

It means that indeed say 7 years from now, we're going to laugh at threads discussing 24 MP on APS-C, just like how we do now looking at threads discussing how 6 MP to 10 MP is so much worse than 4 MP.

When Sony released A100, one of the biggest Sony brasher of all time (Barry Fitzgerald -- isn't it's amazing he has been banned for 2 years from this forum now?) bashed the camera for months and months. Why? Because Sony went up from 6 MP (KM5D) to 10 MP on A100

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