Multi Focus

Started Jun 15, 2012 | Discussions
kristell
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Multi Focus
Jun 15, 2012

Hello all. I have started a photography class. I am using finepix HS10. At the class they explained about multi focus points showing up in the viewfinder as various red dots (or at least one red dot!) which was all very interesting but I can't seem to find this setting on my camera. Does it actually have this facility.

My focus is usually just the square with the cross in the middle but this doesn't actually give you the focus point - I have since found out! Or am I just totally confused (easily done!)

FujiFilm FinePix HS10 (FinePix HS11)
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Greenjax
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to kristell, Jun 15, 2012

Kristell, you will meet many nice, helpful people on this forum. Don't give up. I am not familiar with the HS10 but I'm sure someone else will help. Have a nice day.

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kristell
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Greenjax, Jun 15, 2012

I'm sure not having a first time good experience...... we all have to start somewhere.... and I feel totally insulted. I am sure Paul is delighted at his efforts as he obviously set out to be obnoxious and has succeeded in being offensive and rude.

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Billx08
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to kristell, Jun 15, 2012

kristell wrote:

I'm sure not having a first time good experience...... we all have to start somewhere.... and I feel totally insulted. I am sure Paul is delighted at his efforts as he obviously set out to be obnoxious and has succeeded in being offensive and rude.

No doubt, but he was right about one thing. It's DSLRs that have multiple focus indicators, shown in their optical viewfinders, and in the most often used focusing modes they usually only show one. The HS10 and most P&S cameras don't do this because it would take too long. DSLRs have multiple, independent autofocus sensors, working in parallel (ie, simultaneously). Cameras like the HS10 that don't have autofocus sensors would have to judge what's in focus and what isn't by analyzing the camera's entire (or a large part of) main image sensor, and it would take far too long, even if the camera had an internal computer as powerful as a fast desktop computer.

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kristell
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Billx08, Jun 15, 2012

Thank you for taking the time to explain.

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labe
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Re: Multi Focus..Kristell
In reply to kristell, Jun 15, 2012

Take a look at page 50 (66 of 151) of the hs10 manual . (the pdf file on the cd rom).

No you can not see them as red lights in the view finder but you can select were abouts in the view finder the camera will attempt to focus upon. Your hs10 is no dslr which could cause a few issues while in class. The hs10 on the other hand can do things easier than on dslr. At the end of the day the basic rules of photography apply reguardless of which camera you have.

The hs10 is a good place to start. You may not like photography after all this and so not wasted your money. On the otherhand you may love it and later on move up from your fuji to a dslr. Have fun learning and i hope this helps you out . Cheers Paul UK
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PAUL TILL
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Re: Multi Focus..Kristell
In reply to labe, Jun 15, 2012

Have i missed something, where have I been rude?

HS10 = Toy camera... True
Photography lessons cost more than an HS10... True

If I was serious enough about photography and wanted to wast my money on lessons I certainly wouldn't take a bridge camera along with me.

Paul.
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xeriwthe
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Billx08, Jun 15, 2012

would have to judge what's in focus and what isn't by analyzing the camera's entire (or a large part of) main image sensor, and it would take far too long, even if the camera had an internal computer as powerful as a fast desktop computer.

There's no problem with analyzing focus in multiple areas of the scene, as can be seen by existence of multi-point focus modes on my X10 and Nikon p300. The P300 will even show you which areas, on a 3x3 grid, it thinks are in focus or not.

there is definitely capability to analyze focus across the whole image, or many parts of it. just not at full resolution. the sensor already runs at a low resolution when not capturing

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Billx08
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to xeriwthe, Jun 15, 2012

xeriwthe wrote:

would have to judge what's in focus and what isn't by analyzing the camera's entire (or a large part of) main image sensor, and it would take far too long, even if the camera had an internal computer as powerful as a fast desktop computer.

There's no problem with analyzing focus in multiple areas of the scene, as can be seen by existence of multi-point focus modes on my X10 and Nikon p300. The P300 will even show you which areas, on a 3x3 grid, it thinks are in focus or not.

I don't know about the P300, but the X10 may be taking shortcuts, not analyzing sufficiently well, which could explain why there are so many reports by X10 owners of focus confirmations when the images were not actually properly focused. Many of Nikon's DSLRs have 51 AF sensors, and all 51 take the same amount of time in total to determine which are in focus as a single AF sensor would. P&S cameras and others that use contrast detect AF usually check focus over a larger area of the frame than DSLR AF sensors cover, and the amount of time needed to check for proper focus in all of the areas checked should be proportional to the number of areas checked, since I haven't heard of any CDAF designs that have multiple CPUs able to simultaneously read data from different regions of the sensor. If it could, the time would be proportional to the number of areas checked divided by the number of CPUs, and this would probably use a lot more battery power and produce more heat, which wouldn't be likely, given the X10's tiny battery.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to kristell, Jun 15, 2012

kristell wrote:

Hello all. I have started a photography class. I am using finepix HS10. At the class they explained about multi focus points showing up in the viewfinder as various red dots (or at least one red dot!) which was all very interesting but I can't seem to find this setting on my camera. Does it actually have this facility.

My focus is usually just the square with the cross in the middle but this doesn't actually give you the focus point - I have since found out! Or am I just totally confused (easily done!)

No option like that in the HS series except for selecting which part of the scene you would like to be in-focus - useful when shooting static subject in a busy scene.

Unless you are shooting or tracking moving object, multiple-AF point is generally a useless feature no matter how many points they are.

-=[ Joms ]=-

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xeriwthe
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Billx08, Jun 15, 2012

haha, ok man, well i'm just saying, that there's no problem with implementing contrast detect multi point AF on point and shoots with a single processor (which, in a digital camera has many specialized DSPs to help crunch data).

parallel or serial doesn't make any difference as long as the processor and the algorithm is fast enough. it's more than fast enough for point and shoots these days. I agree the x10 AF doesn't seem too great.

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alexisgreat
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Billx08, Jun 15, 2012

Bill, what's the AF thing used in the older Olympuses, I noticed my C-7070 uses a combo of different focusing methods and has 143 focus points.
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alexisgreat
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Billx08, Jun 15, 2012

I agree that DSLR and (mirrorless large sensor cams) have better focusing sensors, but I think some advanced compacts also have more than one AF sensor. The C-7070 seems to have two----- one for contrast detect, the other for phase detect. It has 143 focusing points you can choose from also.
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Billx08
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to alexisgreat, Jun 15, 2012

alexisgreat wrote:

I agree that DSLR and (mirrorless large sensor cams) have better focusing sensors, but I think some advanced compacts also have more than one AF sensor. The C-7070 seems to have two----- one for contrast detect, the other for phase detect. It has 143 focusing points you can choose from also.

The C-8080 also had CDAF and PDAF but it focused as if it had all the time in the world. How fast is the C-7070's PDAF, compared to, say, a D3100 with a kit lens and a D300 with a 70-200mm f/2.8 VR?

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Billx08
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to alexisgreat, Jun 15, 2012

alexisgreat wrote:

Bill, what's the AF thing used in the older Olympuses, I noticed my C-7070 uses a combo of different focusing methods and has 143 focus points.

I see that the C-7070 and C-8080 manuals mention both methods, but other than saying that they can use "phase-difference", no other information is provided about it. Searching for "143" only finds page numbers, so you evidently know more about Olympus's PDAF than I do. My guess is that like the Fuji's lone attempt at dual PD/CD autofocus, it's chosen by the camera, not by the user, and at least Fuji coughed up this tiny bit of information. Where did you hear about the 143 focus points?

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Wolfkc
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to kristell, Jun 15, 2012

kristell wrote:

I'm sure not having a first time good experience...... we all have to start somewhere.... and I feel totally insulted. I am sure Paul is delighted at his efforts as he obviously set out to be obnoxious and has succeeded in being offensive and rude.

Try to ignore the rude people.

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Joe Pineapples
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Don't be discouraged...
In reply to kristell, Jun 16, 2012

Don't be discouraged by people why say your camera isn't good enough. Many iconic photographs were taken with very simple cameras - it's the brain behind the camera that makes the difference. For a good example, check out Bert Hardy and the famous "Box Brownie" photograph:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Hardy

(He was one of the greatest photojournalists / documentary photographers of the 20th Century and an all-round nice guy who always had an encouraging word for beginners to photography)

Joe

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kristell
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Re: Don't be discouraged...
In reply to Joe Pineapples, Jun 16, 2012

Well I am discouraged, insulted and totally demoralised. I wouldn't take driving lessons in a rolls Royce or give my 17 year old a ferrari after passing his driving test. I just wanted some constructive advice (there has been some) but I already have the camera. It is a one step up from a compact which I have always used. I didn't buy it from toys r us. The lessons are not being paid by me it. The tutor is more than happy with what I am using and happy for me to use it on this course. Just such a shame that I have had such a poor experience on here. All that needed to be said was "your camera doesnt do that because..."

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alexisgreat
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to Billx08, Jun 16, 2012

It's the focus method I use, but you're right it's not very fast. The points are arranged in a 13x11 matrix and you can use the arrow keys to select the focus point you want to use.

Olympus C7070 Wide Zoom - Improved auto focus

One of the many functions found on the Camedia C7070 is the improved auto focus, existing of a dual system. An external sensor is used to detect a subject's movement, and to adjust the focus accordingly, a so-called predictive focus system. The internal sensor incorporated in the C-7070 offers a 143-point auto focus system to enable focussing on almost the entire image area. Also the new monitor will appeal to many users. It can be swivelled around in many directions thanks to the special construction. You don't have to tie yourself in knots to capture a unique and original image. A large amount of users will definitely appreciate the fact that the images can not only be stored on a CompactFlash memory card, but also on an xD-Picture card. Especially when the C7070 is used as a second camera, besides a digital SLR, the CompactFlash memory card will be preferred.
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alexisgreat
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Re: Multi Focus
In reply to alexisgreat, Jun 16, 2012

ugh why is letsgodigital blocked?
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