T4i grossly overpriced at $950?

Started Jun 8, 2012 | Discussions
IcyVeins
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T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
Jun 8, 2012

Right now on ebay the going rate for a new T3i + lens is $670 with one seller offering $660. I expect the price to drop to $650 or lower once the T4i starts flooding the market. With that being said, is there any rational justification for spending an extra $300 on the T4i when they barely updated anything except some beginner modes and better AF for video? It looks like they started cheating with NR in RAW as well in order to make image quality look better. I just don't see anything close to $300 worth of improvements and it appears that for now this camera is for the wannabe gearheads who think they're getting the latest technology or something and paying a big premium for it.

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liviutza
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

For the money and for the sake of change, I would start thinking about a Pentax K5; I have quite a lot of EOS glass stopping me from that, but I believe that most cameras today deliver high enough IQ to strat thining build quality and VF size...

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Starshot
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

IcyVeins wrote:

Right now on ebay the going rate for a new T3i + lens is $670 with one seller offering $660. I expect the price to drop to $650 or lower once the T4i starts flooding the market. With that being said, is there any rational justification for spending an extra $300 on the T4i when they barely updated anything except some beginner modes and better AF for video? It looks like they started cheating with NR in RAW as well in order to make image quality look better. I just don't see anything close to $300 worth of improvements and it appears that for now this camera is for the wannabe gearheads who think they're getting the latest technology or something and paying a big premium for it.

It's simple. Canon gets to charge whatever they want. If the desperate uninformed hipster idiots buy it at that price they win. If people are smart they wait for the price to drop.

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Barry Fitzgerald
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

Canon are well known for having very heavy intro prices, they're not alone in that either.

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PStu
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

Right now a refurbed 60D body goes for $799, and a new body at $899 with rebate.

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Lemming51
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List price. +$150 from T3i/600D list.
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

Comparing a new release list price to discount pricing on the prior model is not a good comparison.

$150 difference in list pricing seems about right given the changes.

  • New hybrid sensor with combined phase/contrast detect AF in video

  • upgraded phase detect AF from the 60D

  • upgraded shutter in increased speed to 5 fps

  • adds IR remote flash control

  • stereo mic and audio input

Not worth $950 (w/18-55 IS) to you? Fine, that's why Canon still offers the T3i/600D ($800), and the T2i/550D ($700), and the T3/1100D ($550) .

IcyVeins wrote:

Right now on ebay the going rate for a new T3i + lens is $670 with one seller offering $660. I expect the price to drop to $650 or lower once the T4i starts flooding the market. With that being said, is there any rational justification for spending an extra $300 on the T4i when they barely updated anything except some beginner modes and better AF for video? It looks like they started cheating with NR in RAW as well in order to make image quality look better. I just don't see anything close to $300 worth of improvements and it appears that for now this camera is for the wannabe gearheads who think they're getting the latest technology or something and paying a big premium for it.

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TTMartin
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

The T4i with the 18-135 lens at $950 is priced right where it should be $250 less than the Canon 60D with the same lens.

You can't compare prices of cameras with a $130 18-55 lens to prices of cameras with a $330 18-135 lens.

So, eliminate the $200 difference in the lens and the T4i is priced at $100 more than the T3i, again right where it should be priced.

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scorrpio
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

T3i was $800 for the body when originally announced. So $850 for T4i body is about expected. And yes, the price should drop rather rapidly once the initial wave of clueless "gotta have the latest toy at whatever price" shoppers has passed.

The focus definitely continues to be on video. Live Movie AF servo, stereo built-in microphone, and the mode dial redesigned to put the movie mode directly on the power switch. I would KILL to have that on my 60D. Touch screen likely means 'tap to focus' functionality during movie shooting. Interestingly, A-DEP mode is gone. I guess nobody ever used it. Also wonder what happened to the 'Disp' button. I figure touch screen function made it unnecessary.

I think it's a solid design. Won't move those with T3i, T2i and likely T1i to upgrade, but those with older bodies or new DSLR buyers - especially those wanting good video capability - are going to take note. Although D3200 does offer some VERY stiff competition.

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TTMartin
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to scorrpio, Jun 8, 2012

The added still picture frame rate, pentaprism and improved auto focus system of the T4i also make it a better sports camera which is also one of the big reasons people buy dSLRs.

Other than bogus numbers from DXOMark, Canon is NOT 'caught with it's pants down' in their sensor development. One only has to use the tools and measurement here on DPReview to see it just isn't so.

If you think the D3200 offers stiff competition, then just load the High ISO RAW studio shots in the compare widget here, and compare them to the Canon T2i and T3i.

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MikeFromMesa
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Actually ...
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

when they barely updated anything

Actually they seem to have updated quite a bit.

1) 5fps instead of 3.7fps. That is more than a 35% increase in speed,

2) Auto-focus during video. That seems to me like a very nice change,

3) LCD touch screen,

4) Faster processing with Digic 5 instead of Digic 4,

5) One step higher ISO (25600 instead of 12800).

That seems like quite a bit to me. Whether or not it is worth the price is a different question and that depends upon your needs. If you are shooting BIF, then 5fps is much better than 3.7fps. If you need low light performance, then 25600 is much better than 12800.

If I had not just bought a 600D for my wife I would be hanging back for the 650D.

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Rick880
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to IcyVeins, Jun 8, 2012

No really. If you check out Nikon's DSLR price, you would know it is priced competively. Over time, Canon's price will drop earlier and faster than Nikon's, which actually stay firmed at introductory MSRP until the very end of the product's life.

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art1sta
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Re: Actually ...
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Jun 8, 2012

1, 4 and 5) This is called evolution, and are really small steps to keep it up to date with the competition but lets see what the NR is like at 25600 and 12800

2) Auto-focus during video.

The autofocus during video probably requires that you buy the new lens so for faithful users that have canon glass this might be less of an upgrade

3) LCD touch screen,

Pretty useless thing but ok its an entry level dslr and some people might like this.

I think they will come under a bit of criticism and in 6 months time send ou the 700D like they did with the 500/550 so I am wary of buying the 650.

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jvkelley
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Re: Actually ...
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Jun 8, 2012

MikeFromMesa wrote:

when they barely updated anything

Actually they seem to have updated quite a bit.

1) 5fps instead of 3.7fps. That is more than a 35% increase in speed,

2) Auto-focus during video. That seems to me like a very nice change,

3) LCD touch screen,

4) Faster processing with Digic 5 instead of Digic 4,

5) One step higher ISO (25600 instead of 12800).

That seems like quite a bit to me. Whether or not it is worth the price is a different question and that depends upon your needs. If you are shooting BIF, then 5fps is much better than 3.7fps. If you need low light performance, then 25600 is much better than 12800.

If I had not just bought a 600D for my wife I would be hanging back for the 650D.

9 cross-type autofocus points with the center point being dual cross

Addition of hybrid autofocus (I believe this means on-sensor phase detection autofocus points)

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noonin
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to Starshot, Jun 8, 2012

Starshot wrote:

It's simple. Canon gets to charge whatever they want. If the desperate uninformed hipster idiots buy it at that price they win. If people are smart they wait for the price to drop.

Exactly...every new model carries a price premium when it rolls out, not to mention there are always discounts on the previous model to clear out stock. Combine the two and there's your $300. Early Adopters always pay more, smart consumers wait for things to "settle down" ;-).

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noonin
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to scorrpio, Jun 8, 2012

scorrpio wrote:

Also wonder what happened to the 'Disp' button. I figure touch screen function made it unnecessary.

It almost looks like a sensor mounted on the back, just below the hotshoe, might be the return of the automatic on-off switch for the display for when you raise the camera to your face to use the OVF...I hope!

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AmateurSnaps
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Re: Actually ...
In reply to art1sta, Jun 8, 2012

art1sta wrote:

I think they will come under a bit of criticism and in 6 months time send ou the 700D like they did with the 500/550 so I am wary of buying the 650.

Really not convinced Canon will be doing a 6 months upgrade on the rebal range while juggling the 70D (poss. 7DMK2), and their mirrorless kit.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: Actually ...
In reply to art1sta, Jun 8, 2012

This is called evolution

I did not suggest that this was a revolutionary change. Only that there are significant changes. And, of course, I did not mention all of the changes. The auto-focus points are now all x type and that is also a welcome improvement. And the STM functionality will make video better.

As to how important these changes are, that depends upon how and when each person uses the camera. For me, for example, the extra stop of ISO is probably worth $100-$150 alone to me since I tend to shoot in low light situations and don't like to use flash. The continuous auto-focus during video is probably also worth another $100-$150 to me. I don't take a lot of video, but when I do take it I would like it to stay in focus.

I personally think that the changes from the 600D to the 650D are more significant than those from the 550D to the 600D. My only regret is that I bought my wife her 600D about 2 weeks ago and did not wait for this camera.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: Actually ...
In reply to jvkelley, Jun 8, 2012

9 cross-type autofocus points with the center point being dual cross

Addition of hybrid autofocus (I believe this means on-sensor phase detection autofocus points)

Yes. I responded to art1sta saying that I had not included all of the changes and listed the cross-type auto-focus points. My personal opinion is that this is a very desirable upgrade. If it was available now I would return the 600D I just bought and replace it with the 650D if only for the extra stop of ISO and the continuous auto-focus.

I am not sure why people are so unhappy with the specs. They seem quite nice to me. It almost appears to me as though the 650D is a better spec-ed camera than the 60D although it is not as well protected against the weather (and does not have the custom button).

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to noonin, Jun 8, 2012

smart consumers wait for things to "settle down"

If they have the time. If you need a camera because your current one does work or if you need some newly available functionality, then buying when it becomes available may be the best thing to do.

Remember, prices don't always drop quickly. The 5D3 is still selling at (or above) list price and probably will continue to do so for the next 6 months or more. People suggest waiting for it's price to drop to $3000 but I am not convinced it will for quite some time (if at all).

You can continue to wait for a price drop that may never come until the camera is obsolescent and is being replaced by the new model. Waiting to buy something like the 5D3 until the 5D4 is out seems like a bad idea.

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noonin
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Re: T4i grossly overpriced at $950?
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Jun 8, 2012

MikeFromMesa wrote:

smart consumers wait for things to "settle down"

If they have the time. If you need a camera because your current one does work or if you need some newly available functionality, then buying when it becomes available may be the best thing to do.

Remember, prices don't always drop quickly. The 5D3 is still selling at (or above) list price and probably will continue to do so for the next 6 months or more. People suggest waiting for it's price to drop to $3000 but I am not convinced it will for quite some time (if at all).

You can continue to wait for a price drop that may never come until the camera is obsolescent and is being replaced by the new model. Waiting to buy something like the 5D3 until the 5D4 is out seems like a bad idea.

Maybe my choice of words wasn't the best...yes, customers than can wait would be better;-). I still think a new model of anything commands a price premium, especially when weighed against sale prices on the older model. If you're in the States, maybe wait for a "4th of July" sale on the T4i.

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