OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!

Started Jun 8, 2012 | Discussions
vanessamphoto
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OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
Jun 8, 2012

Hey everyone! I posted this same info at mu-43, but thought I would share here as well...

As most of us are aware, there have been banding issues reported with the OMD + Panasonic 20mm 1.7 combo. I wanted to confirm this phenomenon and sure enough, it happened for me. Then I decided to try to duplicate the same using the 12-50mm. I wasn't expecting it to happen with this combo because so far, all the threads I've read have said that this only happens with the OMD+Pana 20mm. Well, I'm sad to report that it also occurred with the 12-50mm. Granted, I really underexposed the shot, but the banding is there.

Here's the image on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanessamphoto/7350504280/

So, now what??? Keep the highly sought after camera? Hope for a firmware update? Return it?

Len_Gee
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

Hello,

Strange it was not reported by respected review sites of banding issues with 12-50 lens.
Do you reckon it can be fixed in next firmware update or not?
How underexposed was the shot?

Maybe it's not the super camera it's cracked up to be. I would retun it if there is a flaw and causes banding with the lenses you have or plan to use.

Good luck whatever you decide.

vanessamphoto wrote:

Hey everyone! I posted this same info at mu-43, but thought I would share here as well...

As most of us are aware, there have been banding issues reported with the OMD + Panasonic 20mm 1.7 combo. I wanted to confirm this phenomenon and sure enough, it happened for me. Then I decided to try to duplicate the same using the 12-50mm. I wasn't expecting it to happen with this combo because so far, all the threads I've read have said that this only happens with the OMD+Pana 20mm. Well, I'm sad to report that it also occurred with the 12-50mm. Granted, I really underexposed the shot, but the banding is there.

Here's the image on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanessamphoto/7350504280/

So, now what??? Keep the highly sought after camera? Hope for a firmware update? Return it?

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curio77
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

If that's representative of the shots you normally take, don't hesitate to return it!

Seriously, why do people desperately seek out apparent flaws in a camera by adjusting circumstances to absolutely unrealistic conditions, and then hinge keeping or getting rid of the camera on that?!

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ryanshoots
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camera test pilots
In reply to curio77, Jun 8, 2012

curio77 wrote:

If that's representative of the shots you normally take, don't hesitate to return it!

Seriously, why do people desperately seek out apparent flaws in a camera by adjusting circumstances to absolutely unrealistic conditions, and then hinge keeping or getting rid of the camera on that?!

I couldn't agree more. What we need are more tests for hot pixels, banding, light leaks, shutter blur, etc.

Some folks should change their moniker from photographer to camera test pilot.

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bab4
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Re: camera test pilots
In reply to ryanshoots, Jun 8, 2012

so you raised the iso to 6400 then drastically underexposed it to look for flaws and you expected to see a totally clean picture? sheesh

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ciresob
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

Easy. don't shoot at ISO 6400. You'll get Cr*p results anyway.

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TEBnewyork
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

Oh how artistic. How many shots that you've actually properly exposed have shown it?

So you shot jpeg not raw, massively underexposed with these settings just to find banding?

Exposure 0.005 sec (1/200)
Aperture f/3.5
Focal Length 12 mm
ISO Speed 6400
Exposure Bias -0.7 EV

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ciresob
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to ciresob, Jun 8, 2012

Actually, even better, sell that camera quick before it completely fails to take pictures!. Plus you can make some appreciative buyer the proud owner of a fantastic camera at a bargain basement price. Win-win if ever I've seen one!.

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Banger
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Gross stupidity ! (nt)
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

Give us a break .....Rob

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Erik Johansen
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Please, show a shot with the lens cap on. /nt.
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012
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ciresob
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Re: Please, show a shot with the lens cap on. /nt.
In reply to Erik Johansen, Jun 8, 2012

LOL!. Yes, if it can't take pictures with the lens cap on it is not worth owning!

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wolfie
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In reply to TEBnewyork, Jun 8, 2012

1. You shot is so dark I cant actually see any banding - you must have really sweating the very small stuff to have found it at all. Me - I would have simply deleted the shot and corrected the exposure ..

2. Banding in digital cameras is not that uncommon, and most noticeable in under-exposure situations and especially at high ISOs. Nikon has had a number of DSLRs (starting way back with the D70) that have well documented banding issues - didnt stop them being best sellers. [ But then maybe Nikonians aren't as fussy as Olympians?]
3. Q:"So now what?"
A: Simple! Dont shoot heavily underexposed shots at high ISO!

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Shoot the Light fantastic

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markintosh13
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

what does it look like after a +3 shadow pull?

i can't really see banding as it's too dark

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Timur Born
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

You may or may not get banding with likely every lens if you push dark shadows up. I get it with the 12-50 and 45/1.8 even at ISO 200. The two key elements are "may" and "push up shadows".

Some thing to mention:

  • The horizontal banding noise is affected by lens geometry corrections, so it may not always be horizontal.

  • Color noise filtering will bring out horizontal lines, whereas they often are hardly detectable when no color noise filtering has been applied.

  • You can make horizontal lines visible when shooting a black frame with the lens cap on. And you can make visible that their occurrence changes with every shot.

Let's begin with the easy one, " Push up shadows ":

Using higher ISO or extremely pushing shadows at lower ISO is more or less the same if the shadows got the same exposure, except for noise that may be added to higher ISO images due to higher analog gain. Since banding shows mostly in very dark to dark shadow areas it becomes visible by pushing it into the visible range.

Interestingly this seems to happen with both digital gain (post-processing) and analog gain (ISO) if reports by other people can be trusted (aka they must not post-process the high ISO images to push digitally). I did not check the high ISO situation yet, but can give you various example for low ISO shadow pushing.

Now for the more complex element, " may " or may not:

I found that for the very same situation two shots that have been done within seconds with the very same settings one does show horizontal lines and one not!? This leads me to speculate the whole issue of horizontal banding may be happening due to some interference.

Maybe it's IBIS interfering with the sensor? If so then we might be able to do some comparisons with IBIS on vs. off and using a shaking hand vs. holding steady on a tripod.

Maybe it's one of the screens? It might be worth testing to turn one or the other off (screen vs EVF) to see if it makes a difference.

Maybe it's "touching the body"? By touching the metal body of the camera with your skin you may induce some current flow. This could be checked easily.

Personally I did not have time yet to delve deeper into this, but it makes sense to report it to Olympus.

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: Send an email first, and
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

vanessamphoto wrote:

Hey everyone! I posted this same info at mu-43, but thought I would share here as well...

As most of us are aware, there have been banding issues reported with the OMD + Panasonic 20mm 1.7 combo. I wanted to confirm this phenomenon and sure enough, it happened for me. Then I decided to try to duplicate the same using the 12-50mm. I wasn't expecting it to happen with this combo because so far, all the threads I've read have said that this only happens with the OMD+Pana 20mm. Well, I'm sad to report that it also occurred with the 12-50mm. Granted, I really underexposed the shot, but the banding is there.

Here's the image on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/vanessamphoto/7350504280/

So, now what??? Keep the highly sought after camera? Hope for a firmware update? Return it?

I would right an email to Olympus with the images, it is not the first time we see banding on an Olympus, maybe something in the processing, the E-3 a pro camera has showed banding but it was a bit more that what your images show

I would ask on the email if there will be a firmware update that corrects that

After the reply you decide what is best, after all the banding does not appear on all kind of images, and I don't remember what program clean the banding, but I remember to read that on does that

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Aleo Veuliah
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to TEBnewyork, Jun 8, 2012

TEBnewyork wrote:

Oh how artistic. How many shots that you've actually properly exposed have shown it?

So you shot jpeg not raw, massively underexposed with these settings just to find banding?

Exposure 0.005 sec (1/200)
Aperture f/3.5
Focal Length 12 mm
ISO Speed 6400
Exposure Bias -0.7 EV

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Indeed ........

-- hide signature --

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.

Imagination is more important than knowledge.

God always take the simplest way.

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intruder61
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To ALL That Responded....
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

OP has one post...this one
OP has 1 pic on flickr...the one you all clicked
....yet you respond to the OP's stupidity
and the OP wants you to believe ITS female...LOL

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Timur Born
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to Aleo Veuliah, Jun 8, 2012

Underexposure can be needed in order to protect highlights and make full use of the dynamic range offered by the E-M5 (everyone's discussing that one, so it must be useful).

And of course banding noise is not limited to JPGs, but also visible in raw files where it happens.

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vanessamphoto
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

Um, is there a way to delete my asinine post? Obviously I've offended far too many with my ignorance and even more ridiculously underexposed image. Rest assured, this was not my intent. To those of you who read my post and felt compelled to respond with such negativity, please accept my most humblest apology! I am terribly sorry you felt my question wasn't up to par with the usual high standards of this forum. I am even more apologetic that you were so offended by my post that you took precious time out of your busy day to reply with your witty banter - surely it deserved to be put to better use. I should feel honored that you chose little 'ol me upon which to bestow your loathsome comments.

What a way to welcome someone to the forum! It's like pledging a fraternity in college and subjecting one's self to public humiliation. Awesome!

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mfj197
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Re: OMD banding with 12-50mm zoom!
In reply to vanessamphoto, Jun 8, 2012

Agreed vanessamphoto, most of the replies you received were not worth the effort of typing. Thanks for posting the results of what is a useful testing exercise, even if the majority of those who replied failed to comprehend this.

With your camera would you say the effect is of comparable magnitude to the banding with the 20mm?

Michael

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