Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.

Started Jun 4, 2012 | Discussions
jennajenna
Senior MemberPosts: 1,103
Like?
Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
Jun 4, 2012

"There are so many portraits posted that aren't very good. The skin tones are way off and post processed background blur looking artificial etc. Just many things that are not good at all, yet so many people heap false praise upon the photog who posted them. Is it just trying to make them feel good or what? It is not fair to the poster to deliver undeserved praise, and deprive them of constructive criticism that may ultimately help them become better photographers. Think about it, you're doing them no favor."

How about instead be honest and just grow a thicker skin. If they say the photo is bad or boring ~ don't interpret that criticism as about the person who took the photo. It's about the photo only.

As far as I know most people are not teenagers here so act like a grown up. Don't get a broken heart or be sad because people said your picture was mediocre. Read the comments, think about it and move on.

Not everyone here is a diplomat, nor should they be. Unless it's an outright personal attack, stick to the fact that the critique (be it negative) is only about the picture.

So many insecure people exist in our society now, it's like when you're driving on the roads and someone shoots thru a stop sign so you give them the horn. And instead of them waving an apologetic hand, the offender gives you the finger. You want to know why people cannot admit a mistake? Because we are babied too much as a society and not taught to suck it up if you screw up. Bad driving, bad pictures, bad behaviour. Look at the critique, if it's honest - that's all you should process.

Brought to you by the flip side of argument

Brian Wadie
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,073Gear list
Like?
Re: Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
In reply to jennajenna, Jun 4, 2012

"Unless it's an outright personal attack, stick to the fact that the critique (be it negative) is only about the picture"

But also be clear in your own mind that your critique is only your personal view (and make that statement to the original postee so that they understand this as well)

Too many problems are caused by contributors who behave as if their opinion is the only truth! (but only in my opinion - obviously )

 Brian Wadie's gear list:Brian Wadie's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm 1:2.8 Macro +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Louis_Dobson
Forum ProPosts: 26,387
Like?
Re: Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
In reply to jennajenna, Jun 4, 2012

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand, don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tedolf
Forum ProPosts: 15,713Gear list
Like?
This is non-sense, again......
In reply to Louis_Dobson, Jun 4, 2012

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand,

ever go to an art museum?

Do you really understand the sociological, medical, etc. differences between Degas, Mattise and VanGoeh?

Are you capable of painting at thier level?

No?

Does that mean you can't have an oppinion and offer critisizm about thier paintings?

don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

No its not, everybody should learn the rule of thirds and if you didn't apply it you should have a good explination for why you didn't.

If you don't want to be subject to those kinds of questions then don't post your photo's.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

Really Louis, you attitude is a thinly veiled, very thinly vieled attempt to just shut down critisizm entirely....

or leave it to a select group of self appointed "experts".

Please, you are not fooling us.

Gonna hit the "Compalin" button now?

Tedolph, RIP

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Louis_Dobson
Forum ProPosts: 26,387
Like?
Re: This is non-sense, again......
In reply to tedolf, Jun 4, 2012

The only time I ever hit the complain button was when some fruit loop starting stalking my partner.

I've been using the net since it before it was called the net, so i'm used to the idea that the world is full of idiots, and I'm unfailingly patient with people who offer me dim advice.

My concern is frightening off the rather thinner skinned. That, and the terrible embarrassment of watching people making idiots of themselves.

tedolf wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand,

ever go to an art museum?

Do you really understand the sociological, medical, etc. differences between Degas, Mattise and VanGoeh?

Are you capable of painting at thier level?

No?

Does that mean you can't have an oppinion and offer critisizm about thier paintings?

don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

No its not, everybody should learn the rule of thirds and if you didn't apply it you should have a good explination for why you didn't.

If you don't want to be subject to those kinds of questions then don't post your photo's.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

Really Louis, you attitude is a thinly veiled, very thinly vieled attempt to just shut down critisizm entirely....

or leave it to a select group of self appointed "experts".

Please, you are not fooling us.

Gonna hit the "Compalin" button now?

Tedolph, RIP

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 26,270
Like?
Re: Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
In reply to Louis_Dobson, Jun 4, 2012

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand, don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

I have a few simple rules, well more 'guidelines':

  • I feel very comfortable with saying 'great shot' or whatever if someon posts an image that I like.

  • Photography is a matter of personal taste, so unless they ask (or ask for it - see later) I never, ever criticise someone's images.

  • If someone actually asks (as in saying 'C&C please') then I will offer constructive criticism. Unfortunately, sometimes this isn't well received. It seems some people ask for C&C, when really they just want to be told how good the shot is.

  • I will criticise an image if I think someone is 'asking for it'. Activity which might be construed as 'asking for it' could include

  1. Unsolicited negative comments about someone else's work or competence, then posting images which are not beyond reproach.

  2. Posting images the supposed excellence of which purports to support the poster's opinion.

  3. Claiming the high ground as a master photographer, then posting mediocre images.

Probably several other things too.

But on the whole, I think people have the right to post their images without destructive comment, whichever style of photography they enjoy and whichever brand of equipment they like.

-- hide signature --

Bob

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Just Having Fun
Senior MemberPosts: 3,869
Like?
Politeness on both sides
In reply to Brian Wadie, Jun 4, 2012

Be honest.
Be truthful.
Be polite.

Use "constructive criticism".

Constructive criticisms are often suggestions for improvement - how things could be done better or more acceptably. They draw attention to how an identified problem could be solved, or how it could be solved better.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
normsmith
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,372
Like?
Maybe check your last 10 posts to reveal your character here.
In reply to tedolf, Jun 4, 2012

Can't see how anyone can tell anyone else what they can and can't post in terms of pictures, providing the site rules are complied with i.e. no pornography etc.

However, if you do post a picture to this public space then it is likely to attract comment both positive and negative and that goes with the territory.

poor photography (whatever that means to each of us) is no big deal. It does not harm anyone here and merely represents the wide gamut of tastes and ability. BUT on the other hand being a rude, self opinionated, in your face type poster does undermine the site.

There must be loads of people who want to share their photo's here but won't for fear of getting slated and that's a shame.

It might be worth asking yourself what kind of poster you are, creative or destructive, critical or supportive. Just check out your last 10 posts and see what the general feel of them is collectively.

-- hide signature --

my blog http://pinkfootstudio.blogspot.com
never more than 3 posts per page so you will not be overloaded with images.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
brudy
Senior MemberPosts: 1,351
Like?
Re: This is non-sense, again......
In reply to tedolf, Jun 4, 2012

If you're going to put your work out there, you also need to learn whose criticism is worth listening to. As a lifelong musician, I've long ago learned to discount feedback (good and bad) from people who don't necessarily have a strong reference point or background. Hearing "great show" from people, while nice, doesn't help me in the slightest. I'd prefer more balanced, constructive criticism. It's the same with photography or any art medium.

You can have someone say my 3 year old could paint like Jackson Pollock or my 10 year old like Cy Twombly, but without any historical context or understanding of the artists' intent, those criticisms are utterly meaningless.

In terms of technical criticism in these forums, I've learned a lot here and agree with the OP that people should develop a thick skin and learn from people who have quality experience. I should also add that people adding sycophantic appraisals doesn't help the photographer either.

tedolf wrote:
Louis_Dobson wrote:
ever go to an art museum?

Do you really understand the sociological, medical, etc. differences between Degas, Mattise and VanGoeh?

Are you capable of painting at thier level?

No?

Does that mean you can't have an oppinion and offer critisizm about thier paintings?

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

Really Louis, you attitude is a thinly veiled, very thinly vieled attempt to just shut down critisizm entirely....

or leave it to a select group of self appointed "experts".

Please, you are not fooling us.

Gonna hit the "Compalin" button now?

Tedolph, RIP

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
InOmaha
Regular MemberPosts: 234
Like?
Re: Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
In reply to jennajenna, Jun 4, 2012

I have two of the same brand and model monitors running on the same computer here at work and colors look distictly different on each because work monitors are not calibrated. On top of that I have a bank of windows behind me with sunlight varying throughout the day, blending with flourescent lighting.

When I go home with the same PC I have 2 different monitors that again provide different colors to photos. If I want to look a photo in greater detail I use my best monitor on a non-work PC that's been adjusted to specifications based on samples returned from the place I normally send prints.

Bascially, I don't post on the internet for comment very oftern because I can't be sure the person is qualified, and even if they are, comments like "colors off" etc have little meaning since I'm uncertain of what they are viewing the photo on. I may comment on some basics, but really, unless I'm looking over their shoulder or at a print there's little to no guarantee I'm seeing the same thing when it comes to colors.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
forpetessake
Senior MemberPosts: 2,807
Like?
Re: Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
In reply to jennajenna, Jun 4, 2012

Finally, the voice of reason!

jennajenna wrote:

"There are so many portraits posted that aren't very good. The skin tones are way off and post processed background blur looking artificial etc. Just many things that are not good at all, yet so many people heap false praise upon the photog who posted them. Is it just trying to make them feel good or what? It is not fair to the poster to deliver undeserved praise, and deprive them of constructive criticism that may ultimately help them become better photographers. Think about it, you're doing them no favor."

How about instead be honest and just grow a thicker skin. If they say the photo is bad or boring ~ don't interpret that criticism as about the person who took the photo. It's about the photo only.

That's an important principle. I can imagine if people reacted at workplace as they react here. The truth is that everybody who is involved in any non-trivial pursuit knows that the path to achievements beyond mediocrity is littered with failed attempts. As some writer said, 90% of everything is dung. If I may apply it to photography, if you are not throwing away 90% of the pictures you've taken, you either can't separate good from garbage or you achieved the personal level of perfection.

As far as I know most people are not teenagers here so act like a grown up. Don't get a broken heart or be sad because people said your picture was mediocre. Read the comments, think about it and move on.

Interesting observation, why all the infantilism? I don't see it often in real life, is there something special about photography forums?

Not everyone here is a diplomat, nor should they be. Unless it's an outright personal attack, stick to the fact that the critique (be it negative) is only about the picture.

It's good that not everybody is a diplomat. Because the task of the diplomat is not to help the other party, but rather to deceive the other party to gain advantage.

So many insecure people exist in our society now, it's like when you're driving on the roads and someone shoots thru a stop sign so you give them the horn. And instead of them waving an apologetic hand, the offender gives you the finger. You want to know why people cannot admit a mistake? Because we are babied too much as a society and not taught to suck it up if you screw up. Bad driving, bad pictures, bad behaviour. Look at the critique, if it's honest - that's all you should process.

Amen to that!

Brought to you by the flip side of argument

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tedolf
Forum ProPosts: 15,713Gear list
Like?
Re: This is non-sense, again......
In reply to Louis_Dobson, Jun 4, 2012

Louis_Dobson wrote:

The only time I ever hit the complain button was when some fruit loop starting stalking my partner.

??

I won'teven ask.

I've been using the net since it before it was called the net, so i'm used to the idea that the world is full of idiots, and I'm unfailingly patient with people who offer me dim advice.

So why do you want to censor them?

My concern is frightening off the rather thinner skinned.

Nobody forces them to post.

And if they post , they need to expect critisism of all levels of sophistication, not just from the "elite" in your eyes.

That, and the terrible embarrassment of watching people making idiots of themselves.

We have a right to make idiiots of ourselves without your censorship.

tedolf wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand,

ever go to an art museum?

Do you really understand the sociological, medical, etc. differences between Degas, Mattise and VanGoeh?

Are you capable of painting at thier level?

No?

Does that mean you can't have an oppinion and offer critisizm about thier paintings?

don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

No its not, everybody should learn the rule of thirds and if you didn't apply it you should have a good explination for why you didn't.

If you don't want to be subject to those kinds of questions then don't post your photo's.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

Really Louis, you attitude is a thinly veiled, very thinly vieled attempt to just shut down critisizm entirely....

or leave it to a select group of self appointed "experts".

Please, you are not fooling us.

Gonna hit the "Compalin" button now?

Tedolph, RIP

Tedolph, RIP

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tedolf
Forum ProPosts: 15,713Gear list
Like?
More non-sense.....
In reply to normsmith, Jun 4, 2012

normsmith wrote:

Can't see how anyone can tell anyone else what they can and can't post in terms of pictures, providing the site rules are complied with i.e. no pornography etc.

However, if you do post a picture to this public space then it is likely to attract comment both positive and negative and that goes with the territory.

poor photography (whatever that means to each of us) is no big deal. It does not harm anyone here and merely represents the wide gamut of tastes and ability. BUT on the other hand being a rude, self opinionated, in your face type poster does undermine the site.

Really, what and who is " rude, self opinionated, in your face type poster" is a matter of oppinion isn't it?

I say if the posting rules are not violated, it is fine.

Anything else is just arrogant, censorship.

There must be loads of people who want to share their photo's here but won't for fear of getting slated and that's a shame.

I don't think it is a shame, I think that is how it should work.

Look, if somebody post "here are some photo's I am not happy with, here is what I was trying to do, what can I do better" I have never seen anyone offer anything other than helpful critisizm.

Never.

OTOH, what usually happens is, "see here my magnificent photo's, C&C wlecome".

And then you say, "wow-these are really bad and here is why" you are a , "rude, self opinionated, in your face type poster".

Well, I just don't see it that way.

It might be worth asking yourself what kind of poster you are, creative or destructive, critical or supportive. Just check out your last 10 posts and see what the general feel of them is collectively.

this is stupid.

this is the Internet for God's sake. We are all virtually present. It is not possible to be "in your face" when we are thousands of miles apart!

It is possible to be "supportive, creative, helpful, etc." when it seems like you are being "destructive" or "critical".

Ever been to boot camp?

Most DI's are the most helpful people anyone ever experienced, it just doesn't seem like it at the time.

Oh, I know, the "arteeests" and wanabe "arteeests" won't understand the military analogy.

-- hide signature --

my blog http://pinkfootstudio.blogspot.com
never more than 3 posts per page so you will not be overloaded with images.

Tedolph, RIP

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tedolf
Forum ProPosts: 15,713Gear list
Like?
Even more mostly non-sense.....
In reply to bobn2, Jun 4, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand, don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

I have a few simple rules, well more 'guidelines':

  • I feel very comfortable with saying 'great shot' or whatever if someon posts an image that I like.

Well, Ok.

Not sure that does anything to help the OP.

  • Photography is a matter of personal taste, so unless they ask (or ask for it - see later) I never, ever criticise someone's images.

this is entirely false.

There are numerous objective creteria for what is a good photo. If you have ever entered a juried photo contest you would know that the Judges use a list of objective creteria for judging each photo. The creteria inludes objective rules like "rule of thirds" use of complementary colors, use of leading lines, in addition to more subjective creteria.

  • If someone actually asks (as in saying 'C&C please') then I will offer constructive criticism. Unfortunately, sometimes this isn't well received. It seems some people ask for C&C, when really they just want to be told how good the shot is.

this is exaclty correct, and quite frankly somewhat insulting-as if we were dancing bears (did I just say "dancing bears"?).

  • I will criticise an image if I think someone is 'asking for it'. Activity which might be construed as 'asking for it' could include

  1. Unsolicited negative comments about someone else's work or competence, then posting images which are not beyond reproach.

I think that is flawed. Sometimes people just use the best image conveniently available. They are not going to go out and take specific photos to answer a specific post.

Most of us have jobs.

  1. Posting images the supposed excellence of which purports to support the poster's opinion.

same, see above.

  1. Claiming the high ground as a master photographer, then posting mediocre images.

Well, it is always stupid to claim being a"master" at anything.

Are you talking about Louis here?

Probably several other things too.

But on the whole, I think people have the right to post their images without destructive comment,

Why do you think that?

Where does htis "right" come from?

I absolutely know where but I am interested to see what you think.

whichever style of photography they enjoy and whichever brand of equipment they like.

-- hide signature --

Bob

TEdolph, RIP

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tedolf
Forum ProPosts: 15,713Gear list
Like?
Now this is true.....
In reply to InOmaha, Jun 4, 2012

InOmaha wrote:

I have two of the same brand and model monitors running on the same computer here at work and colors look distictly different on each because work monitors are not calibrated. On top of that I have a bank of windows behind me with sunlight varying throughout the day, blending with flourescent lighting.

When I go home with the same PC I have 2 different monitors that again provide different colors to photos. If I want to look a photo in greater detail I use my best monitor on a non-work PC that's been adjusted to specifications based on samples returned from the place I normally send prints.

Bascially, I don't post on the internet for comment very oftern because I can't be sure the person is qualified, and even if they are, comments like "colors off" etc have little meaning since I'm uncertain of what they are viewing the photo on. I may comment on some basics, but really, unless I'm looking over their shoulder or at a print there's little to no guarantee I'm seeing the same thing when it comes to colors.

I have looked at a photo thread that I thought had colors that were off, and on a different computer monitor, they looked fine.

This is an easy error to make when critiquing photos.

Tedolph, RIP

 tedolf's gear list:tedolf's gear list
Olympus PEN E-PL1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 17mm 1:2.8 Pancake Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ktwse
Regular MemberPosts: 344Gear list
Like?
Re: More non-sense.....
In reply to tedolf, Jun 4, 2012

tedolf wrote:

this is stupid.

this is the Internet for God's sake. We are all virtually present. It is not possible to be "in your face" when we are thousands of miles apart!

Ah, but that's the problem. Because we're all virtual, people think they can behave any way they want. And so they're rude, and arrogant, and so forth. When I see some posters, I wonder whether they'd behave the same way in a pub with random people. Like, for instance, whether you'd say to a stranger "this is stupid". Or would you perhaps use a slightly more balanced choice of words to suggest that you disagree with him?

The difference, of course, is that you get away with it here. In real life, you'd most likely end up getting punched in the face. Online, people just think you're a d*ck.

Oh, I know, the "arteeests" and wanabe "arteeests" won't understand the military analogy.

I've done military service and I don't understand it. Simply because it's irrelevant. In the army, a DI has a very limited amount of time in which to achieve certain objectives which will help keep the people he's training alive. Most of us have a lifetime in which to perfect photography and our lives generally don't depend on it.

That's actually why most teachers don't behave like pr*cks to their students. It's been disproved as a sensible method for encouraging learning.

-- hide signature --

E-PL2 / 9-18 / 14-42 / 40-150 / PT-EP03

 ktwse's gear list:ktwse's gear list
Pentax K-5 II Pentax smc DA 55-300mm F4.0-5.8 ED Pentax smc DA 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 AL WR Pentax smc DA 50-200mm F4-5.6 ED WR
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Brian Wadie
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,073Gear list
Like?
Re: More non-sense.....
In reply to ktwse, Jun 4, 2012

"That's actually why most teachers don't behave like pr*cks to their students. It's been disproved as a sensible method for encouraging learning"

Useful critique explains to the student what they need to learn in a manner they can understand, accept & apply

Much of what passes as "Critique" here is simply the critique giver massaging their own ego, totaly useless to the "Student" and and of no value except to the person needing the ego massage

 Brian Wadie's gear list:Brian Wadie's gear list
Olympus OM-D E-M5 Olympus E-M1 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 60mm 1:2.8 Macro +4 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
khoss
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,721Gear list
Like?
Pretty good ..
In reply to Louis_Dobson, Jun 4, 2012
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
peppermonkey
Senior MemberPosts: 2,486Gear list
Like?
Re: Be honest, just grow a thicker skin.
In reply to Louis_Dobson, Jun 4, 2012

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand, don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

I remember that thread.

-- hide signature --

Hubert

My cameras: GF1, Fed 2, TZ3, Konica Auto S2, K1000, Yashica Electro 35 GX, Recesky and my wife's old K110D

http://www.flickr.com/photos/peppermonkey/

 peppermonkey's gear list:peppermonkey's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ3 Pentax K110D Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF1 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 14-45mm F3.5-5.6 ASPH OIS Panasonic Lumix G 20mm F1.7 ASPH +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 26,270
Like?
Re: Even more mostly non-sense.....
In reply to tedolf, Jun 4, 2012

tedolf wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Louis_Dobson wrote:

On the oter hand, don't criticise what you don't understand, don't criticise stuff that you would never like whatever the shooter did (what is the point of me telling people I don't like street photography?) and try not to be thick - watching some fool suggesting to a skilled photographer that he should learn the rule of thirds is plain embarrassing.

http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.pt/2006/06/great-photographers-on-internet.html

I have a few simple rules, well more 'guidelines':

  • I feel very comfortable with saying 'great shot' or whatever if someon posts an image that I like.

Well, Ok.

Not sure that does anything to help the OP.

No, but it's nice, and I'm not a sociopath (despite what a few around here might say)

  • Photography is a matter of personal taste, so unless they ask (or ask for it - see later) I never, ever criticise someone's images.

this is entirely false.

There are numerous objective creteria for what is a good photo.

this is entirely false

If you have ever entered a juried photo contest you would know that the Judges use a list of objective creteria for judging each photo.

If that is what they do, then they are living in a fool's paradise. In what sense are those criteria 'objective'? They may be 'quantitative' or 'consistent' or 'depersonalised' but they sure as hell aren't 'objective'. In any case only a sociopath would be interested in an objectively good photo. All art is entirely about the subjective, there is no point whatsoever to it if it is not.

The creteria inludes objective rules like "rule of thirds" use of complementary colors, use of leading lines, in addition to more subjective creteria.

Those are not objective indicators of the goodness of a photo. That is an arbitrary set of cultural norms that some photographers may choose to use. It has no connection with creative quality at all. Otherwise I could program my computer to be the best photographer in the world.

  • If someone actually asks (as in saying 'C&C please') then I will offer constructive criticism. Unfortunately, sometimes this isn't well received. It seems some people ask for C&C, when really they just want to be told how good the shot is.

this is exaclty correct, and quite frankly somewhat insulting-as if we were dancing bears (did I just say "dancing bears"?).

  • I will criticise an image if I think someone is 'asking for it'. Activity which might be construed as 'asking for it' could include

  1. Unsolicited negative comments about someone else's work or competence, then posting images which are not beyond reproach.

I think that is flawed. Sometimes people just use the best image conveniently available. They are not going to go out and take specific photos to answer a specific post.

Your logic is flawed. I don't care if someone is posting their bast, worst or whatever images. If they take it on themselves to lord it over someone else, they can expect to have their own stuff mercilessly criticised, fair or not. It plays at a higher level of fairness.

Most of us have jobs.

Not if we don't pick and choose who to criticise.

  1. Posting images the supposed excellence of which purports to support the poster's opinion.

same, see above.

Same, see above. If someone is talking balls, and posts a crap picture to support the balls, they should expect to have it pointed out that the picture is crap.

  1. Claiming the high ground as a master photographer, then posting mediocre images.

Well, it is always stupid to claim being a"master" at anything.

Yes

Are you talking about Louis here?

No, I haven't eve observed Louis to claim to be a 'master'. I've seen others describe him as very talented, but never seen him make the claim for himself. Anyway, he's a biker and there is solidarity between bikers.

Probably several other things too.

But on the whole, I think people have the right to post their images without destructive comment,

Why do you think that?

Where does htis "right" come from?

It comes from the fact that I think it. If I think people should have a right, with respect to my own behaviour, I will grant them that right.

I absolutely know where but I am interested to see what you think.

You're not thinking of trepanning me or anything nasty like that?

whichever style of photography they enjoy and whichever brand of equipment they like.

TEdolph, RIP

Did you ever watch Lexx, the character Kai?
--
Bob

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads