X10 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... a walk in the woods ...

Started Jun 3, 2012 | Discussions
Kim Letkeman
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X10 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... a walk in the woods ...
Jun 3, 2012

I wandered about on the weekend where I was accidentally left with both the F770EXR and the HS25 in my possession. I decided to carry these two with the Nikon D7000 and 18-200VR (first gen) lens to compare them as walk about solutions.

I call this series the HS25 review part 7, and it is split into 3 parts, the last of which was posted today.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/05/hs25-review-part-7a-walk-in-woods-with.html

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/05/hs25-review-part-7b-continuing-walk-in.html

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/06/hs25-review-part-7c-continuing-walk-in.html

A few samples ...

HS25EXR

F770EXR

D7000

HS25

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kilometer31
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Re: X10 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... TITLE FIX
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 3, 2012

Kim: need to replace X10 with HS25 in title

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Spiridakis Michael
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Nice but...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 3, 2012

Nice series but you don't tell the purpose of this comparison shots between a DSLR like yours and the poor Fujies....

I thought a DSLR has always a better dynamic range, can hold high ISO, their huge sensors are able to make you smile with plenty of bokeh... and finally their lenses even the kit are far away better than the toycams...
No to tell how respectful is the person with a DSLR...

One thing remains to solve... I still can't understand the difference to hold a Canon or a Nikon... DSLR... which makes you feel better and what is the icon (image) in other's eyes...
Well life is big... one day I'll know... LOL

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Kim Letkeman
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brain fart ...
In reply to kilometer31, Jun 3, 2012

kilometer31 wrote:

Kim: need to replace X10 with HS25 in title

Sadly, it cannot be done ... too bad, as the audience will be completely different.

Oh well ...

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nice but...
In reply to Spiridakis Michael, Jun 3, 2012

Spiridakis Michael wrote:

Nice series but you don't tell the purpose of this comparison shots between a DSLR like yours and the poor Fujies....

Yes, I actually do. It is an experience report comparing how it is to shoot three walk about solutions. One that fits in your pocket with great range, one that is larger with incredible range, and one with less range but much larger sensor and a real OVF. Although I do not use those exact words, it should be pretty clear from the introductions to the articles.

In other words -- three legitimate solutions to the problem of what camera to carry when wandering about the woods.

I thought a DSLR has always a better dynamic range, can hold high ISO, their huge sensors are able to make you smile with plenty of bokeh... and finally their lenses even the kit are far away better than the toycams...

This is all true. But of course in bright light with really long focal lengths, the difference is not all that apparent at web sizes. This is all well known.

No to tell how respectful is the person with a DSLR...

I have no idea what you are saying with that sentence.

One thing remains to solve... I still can't understand the difference to hold a Canon or a Nikon... DSLR... which makes you feel better and what is the icon (image) in other's eyes...

Again, I will need the translation to really understand what you are trying to say.

If you are somehow trying to say that you are wondering about the differences between Canon and Nikon dSLRs as to why someone would buy one over the other, there are too many points of variation to make a useful statement. But one thing that is really different is their ergonomics, so someone should always try both brands in a store before committing. They are very, very different in the hands.

If, on the other hand, you are trying to say something about small versus large sensors, then I really cannot parse your question.

Well life is big... one day I'll know... LOL

I wouldn't be so sure ...

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Kim Letkeman
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WARNING: This is about the HS25 ... *NOT* the X10
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 3, 2012

Brain fart. I had just written an article about the X10 and it had not fully flushed from my brain before I created this thread.

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Spiridakis Michael
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Kim....
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 3, 2012

Kim Letkeman wrote:

I really don't know which vitamin helps in a better sense of humor... And if you need a translation to this sentence too... then for sure you have to rethink about your food... LOL

Anyway,,,, speaking for Canon vs Nikon appeal... I think the real photographers are holding always a Canon... and these who are pretending are holding a Nikon... I don't know if this is too risky statement but as a resident in a tourist country.... I see all the tourists to hold a Nikon... very rarely to see a Canon tourist... I don't know if this helps you... but unfortunately is a truth....

I wandered about on the weekend where I was accidentally left with both the F770EXR and the HS25 in my possession. I decided to carry these two with the Nikon D7000 and 18-200VR (first gen) lens to compare them as walk about solutions.

I call this series the HS25 review part 7, and it is split into 3 parts, the last of which was posted today.

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/05/hs25-review-part-7a-walk-in-woods-with.html

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/05/hs25-review-part-7b-continuing-walk-in.html

http://kimletkeman.blogspot.ca/2012/06/hs25-review-part-7c-continuing-walk-in.html

A few samples ...

HS25EXR

F770EXR

D7000

HS25

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Kim....
In reply to Spiridakis Michael, Jun 3, 2012

Spiridakis Michael wrote:

I really don't know which vitamin helps in a better sense of humor... And if you need a translation to this sentence too... then for sure you have to rethink about your food... LOL

You should send that one into Reader's Digest. It's a hoot.

Anyway,,,, speaking for Canon vs Nikon appeal... I think the real photographers are holding always a Canon... and these who are pretending are holding a Nikon...

I assume that this is your very mature attempt to get a rise?

By the way, Canon lenses are white and anyone knows that white lenses shrink your genitalia over time. (Sorry to all those Canon users who speak in high voices now.)

I don't know if this is too risky statement but as a resident in a tourist country.... I see all the tourists to hold a Nikon... very rarely to see a Canon tourist... I don't know if this helps you... but unfortunately is a truth....

Your point illustrates the danger with having a tiny amount of knowledge but understanding none of it.

Nikon are selling millions of consumer dSLRs around the world because they make terrific cameras. Canon do too. But Nikon have had a good run with very strong sensors and very good marketing (Ashton Kucher for example.) Therefore, if you are seeing more Nikons in the hands of tourists, you should not be surprised. However, you are because you have no clue why.

Well, there's a clue for you.

Now, as for "real photographers" ... by that I presume you mean serious professionals? In which case you will find plenty of people in both camps. They call it Canikon for a reason. The duopoly should go strong for a long time yet.

However ... Studio photographers now have the stunning D800 to give them medium format densities with very good high ISO performance. An awesome studio and location camera.

And for those needing even better high ISO, the D4 has increased resolution while maintaining the class leading noise handling of the D3s.

If all this is too much, then read it slowly and start researching it on the Internet.

Bottom line ... serious and non-serious photographers buy both brands. By the millions. They also buy Pentax and Sony and Olympus and they buy the 4/3 cameras and the Fuji bridge cams and compacts. And you are spouting baloney.

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Barry Fitzgerald
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Nikon marketing..
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 3, 2012

I've no idea of Nikon's market share worldwide of late.

I think they have brand pull and marketing muscle as well as strong distribution, and yes Ashton Kutcher is working wonders for them.

On the other hand most of their coolpix models are crappix IMO of course (well some not too bad, but some are not good)

I've no time at all for their budget DSLR's either stripped to the bone in terms of basic functionality as I say Nikon get good at a certain price point, but you have to pay a bit to get there. I could reverse the argument and say other makers do nice cameras too Pentax have some good ideas (shame about the support and AF) I still have some Minolta bodies which I'd rate as far better cameras in their day v the comparable Nikon ones. And I speak as a Nikon and Minolta user.

My Maxxum 7 film dumps all over 35mm Nikon's at that price point nothing to touch it at all. Minolta made great cameras with iffy marketing, Nikon make some good ones, and some fairly weak ones too but they have the muscle to push it. I've 10 year old 35mm budget Minolta's that thump the life out of a 2012 budget Nikon..sad to say. Again 24mp marketing at work and they will sell a ton of them.

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Nightwings
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Kim
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 4, 2012

Kim Letkeman wrote:

I wandered about on the weekend where I was accidentally left with both the F770EXR and the HS25 in my possession. I decided to carry these two with the Nikon D7000 and 18-200VR (first gen) lens to compare them as walk about solutions.

I call this series the HS25 review part 7, and it is split into 3 parts, the last of which was posted today.

Nice job! Thanks for the efforts. I would have liked to have seen the D7000 bird fill the frame more like the other bird shots .... still... nice demo non the less. Thanks

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Nikon AF - One Shot ..... One Kill

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nikon marketing..
In reply to Barry Fitzgerald, Jun 4, 2012

Barry Fitzgerald wrote:

On the other hand most of their coolpix models are crappix IMO of course (well some not too bad, but some are not good)

Yes, most are crap. Have been for years. The P510 is interesting because of the reach and the P7100 is just plain good.

I've no time at all for their budget DSLR's either stripped to the bone

They are what they are. Buy one with a kit lens like the 18-200VR and you have a much better bridge cam overall. But for a serious enthusiast, I consider the D7000 as the entry level.

in terms of basic functionality as I say Nikon get good at a certain price point, but you have to pay a bit to get there. I could reverse the argument and say other makers do nice cameras too Pentax have some good ideas (shame about the support and AF) I still have some Minolta bodies which I'd rate as far better cameras in their day v the comparable Nikon ones. And I speak as a Nikon and Minolta user.

Pentax has been sold too often for my taste. The K5 is great, but the D7000 has the same IQ and a far stronger system around it. I cannot imagine a good reason to by the Pentax. But people do.

As for better or worse ... in the end what matters is ...

  • which camera feels best in your hands

  • which camera has the system you want to buy into

  • how big is your budget

Everything else is mostly noise in my opinion.

My Maxxum 7 film dumps all over 35mm Nikon's at that price point

I find I can develop little interest in 27 year old cameras. I have a Pentax Super Program that has not seen a roll of film in a decade.

Again 24mp marketing at work and they will sell a ton of them.

The D3200 looks to have superb image quality for the price. The D5200 will be at least that good and probably retain the signature articulated LCD. What really interests me is what Nikon will do with the D8000. I happen to like the D7000 at 16MP ... I hate the thought of 30MB RAW files. But we'll see ...

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Nightwings
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ROFLMAO
In reply to Spiridakis Michael, Jun 4, 2012

Spiridakis Michael wrote:

I think the real photographers are holding always a Canon... and these who are pretending are holding a Nikon.

ROFLMAO! Yes, just the day at a political event I saw pretend photographers covering the event with D3's, D3S's, and D700's.

I don't know if this is too risky statement but as a resident in a tourist country.... I see all the tourists to hold a Nikon... very rarely to see a Canon tourist... I don't know if this helps you... but unfortunately is a truth....

It's not a risky statement, it's a patently ridiculous one. You should get out more, travel more.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Kim
In reply to Nightwings, Jun 4, 2012

Nightwings wrote:

Nice job! Thanks for the efforts. I would have liked to have seen the D7000 bird fill the frame more like the other bird shots .... still... nice demo non the less. Thanks

I found an image that could be cropped to match the FOV ... no idea why I did not process it in the first place. It is added to 7B in the appropriate place. Thanks for pointing that out.

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happy snapper uk
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Re: Kim
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 4, 2012

I liked all the shots but my favorite is the shot taken with d7000

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Don Erway
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Re: hs25 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... a walk in the woods ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 4, 2012

Hey Kim. Why on earth did you get an hs25, rather than an hs30 with raw?

Given how you love to PP and use raw, the difference in price would seem like a no brainer.

Looking through your 3 pages of review, the nikon colors, clarity and contrast, consistently stand out as better than the fujis, which look too warm, frequently.

But you could equalize that, starting with raw...

Were you shooting the fujis in EXR dr400 mode M size?

How do you find the auto focus of the hs25 versus the d7000?

Is the hs30 even better at AF than the hs25?

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Midwest
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Re: Kim
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 4, 2012

This D7000 shot of the duck is the best, easily. What accounts for the big difference in color between it and the 770 shot of the same bird - white balance? The D7000 appears to be spot-on; the 770 not so much.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Kim
In reply to Midwest, Jun 4, 2012

Midwest wrote:

This D7000 shot of the duck is the best, easily. What accounts for the big difference in color between it and the 770 shot of the same bird - white balance? The D7000 appears to be spot-on; the 770 not so much.

It was my processing. I think I need to go back and revisit the 770 image. It came out too warm. Each session begins anew for me ... which is a real problem when I start comparing them. I need to process each as close as possible to take this issue out of the loop.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: hs25 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... a walk in the woods ...
In reply to Don Erway, Jun 4, 2012

Don Erway wrote:

Hey Kim. Why on earth did you get an hs25, rather than an hs30 with raw?

Fuji sends me cameras to test. That's the one they sent.

Given how you love to PP and use raw, the difference in price would seem like a no brainer.

I agree, and I have written that in numerous places on the blog and here.

Looking through your 3 pages of review, the nikon colors, clarity and contrast, consistently stand out as better than the fujis, which look too warm, frequently.

A lot of that is me. But the Nikon is more malleable, too. The HS25 is JPEG, so there isn;t much headroom in any direction. The F770 RAW was processed here as F550 RAW ... I need to revisit a few of the images.

But you could equalize that, starting with raw...

The 770 and 7000 were both shot in RAW.

Were you shooting the fujis in EXR dr400 mode M size?

Always

How do you find the auto focus of the hs25 versus the d7000?

I have been complaining about the HS25 AF because it likes to freeze the EVF for a second or two and it is incredibly frustrating. I have missed many a shot with it. The D7000 is quick and accurate and I always can see what I am shooting at. And that was with a mega zoom lens. Had I brought the 70-300VR it would have gotten ugly for the small sensors ...

Is the hs30 even better at AF than the hs25?

That's a very good question, and one I would like to know the answer to. I don't know how we'll get the answer unless someone tests both extensively.

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jcmarfilph
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Re: X10 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... a walk in the woods ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 4, 2012

The nuthatch shot has potential for pixel-peeping - well-done.

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Re: hs25 versus F770EXR versus D7000 ... a walk in the woods ...
In reply to Kim Letkeman, Jun 4, 2012

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Don Erway wrote:

Hey Kim. Why on earth did you get an hs25, rather than an hs30 with raw?

Fuji sends me cameras to test. That's the one they sent.

Given how you love to PP and use raw, the difference in price would seem like a no brainer.

I agree, and I have written that in numerous places on the blog and here.

Looking through your 3 pages of review, the nikon colors, clarity and contrast, consistently stand out as better than the fujis, which look too warm, frequently.

A lot of that is me. But the Nikon is more malleable, too. The HS25 is JPEG, so there isn;t much headroom in any direction. The F770 RAW was processed here as F550 RAW ... I need to revisit a few of the images.

But you could equalize that, starting with raw...

The 770 and 7000 were both shot in RAW.

Were you shooting the fujis in EXR dr400 mode M size?

Always

How do you find the auto focus of the hs25 versus the d7000?

I have been complaining about the HS25 AF because it likes to freeze the EVF for a second or two and it is incredibly frustrating. I have missed many a shot with it.

If the eye-sensor is disabled then this is a problem. With HS30, there is no EVF freezing at all.

The D7000 is quick and accurate and I always can see what I am shooting at. And that was with a mega zoom lens. Had I brought the 70-300VR it would have gotten ugly for the small sensors ...

Is the hs30 even better at AF than the hs25?

That's a very good question, and one I would like to know the answer to. I don't know how we'll get the answer unless someone tests both extensively.

HS30 AF is miles better than SX40 and HS10 so it will be interesting to know this too.

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