Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now

Started Jun 3, 2012 | Discussions
2005magnum
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Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
Jun 3, 2012

Other then the obvious (cost of camera, upgrading lenses to FF and upgrading computer and storage)

I have been looking for a compelling reason to upgrade and I finally found one. Before I mention a very strong reason to upgrade, the general images I have viewed from the D800 are just not that much better then what I have taken with my D7000. However, today I viewed some magnificent bird images from the D800 and the crops from those images were superb.

However, I rarely if ever shoot birds. No reason to switch, but for those of you who are birders, going to a D800 with the ability to crop and even shoot DX, may be a good reason to upset your spouse with a major expenditure.
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mfahim27753
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 3, 2012

I have not switched from D7000 yet because I didn't feel the need. I am happy with my D7000 and being a pixel peeper, I will not be happy looking at D800 36mp photos at 100%, simply because at 36mp, even a hairline movement of the subject or handheld shots can look blurry, as it is not possible to always use tripod or have a fast shutter speed.

I might go for D600 though, if the specs are true.

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zirtico
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to mfahim27753, Jun 3, 2012

The D800 has the same pixel density as the 7000 so camera shake that will cause softness on the 7000 will be similar to what will cause softness on 800. From the D800 review, the 7000 at high ISO looks noticeably better than the 800, in RAW at least. No reason to upgrade for me, I love DX anyway.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 3, 2012

Well, I have a D800e and it is spectacular in every respect but one. The shutter is loud even in "Quiet" mode, which scares the birds away if you're close. There's no way to quiet down that big mirror, I guess. But the improvements in color depth and "rightness" and utterly relaxed, unforced presentation of minute filigreed detail are very impressive indeed. No output sharpening needed. I highly recomend the e over the non e, that extra bit of resolution puts it into another orbit. Importing raws into LR4 is about a three click deal to get near perfection with very little fiddling. As well, the autofocus is simply amazing at nailing what you want.

It's the easiest camera I've ever used to get a technically superb shot. Higher ISOs are almost as smooth as the base, so I don't have to be constantly hovering around 100 to get a great result. Every lens I have shows better. Even my elderly 35-70 2.8 looks like a million bucks now that it's in its native FX domain. The cherry on the sundae is that the video is really smooth and artifact-free compared with Nikon's earlier efforts.

Yes, I went into hock for it and I won't be buying any fancy zoom lenses for it, but hey, you're a long time dead :^)

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A. Westreich
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 3, 2012

I agree with you that the cropping ability is one good reason to upgrade - but not just for birders - consider sports as well. But web images seem to me to be a patently bad way to evaluate the value of high mpx images. I saw one post where they reduced a D800 image down to 2k pixels along the long edge - now that's less resolution than my old D70. Image size together with jpeg compression just won't do justice to high mpx images.

I you want to get a sense of what a high mpx image looks like, shoot a panorama 4k x 6k and look at the level of detail and 'presence' of the image. Now imagine that every frame looks like that . .

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Barry Fitzgerald
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 3, 2012

It's that nagging yet sometimes very logical "good enough" feeling you get sometimes.

Everyone has their own set of needs/wants, ultimately though I suspect relatively few demand a very high pixel count.

I've also felt it's never a great idea to buy a new camera as soon as it hits the market, there are some good deals to be had by being a bit more patient.

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A. Westreich
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to Barry Fitzgerald, Jun 3, 2012

It's not all about pixel counts. Dynamic range and low light performance have also markedly increased as DSLR's have evolved. The D800 excels (see the dxo marks) on both those counts and I imagine that has driven many photographers to consider that system.

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herbymel
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to A. Westreich, Jun 3, 2012

I'd originally been interested in the D400 or whatever the name may be, but I figured with the credit I already had at B&H it would probably be the only opportunity I'd have to afford a camera like this, so after much decision I went for it. The ability to print large when I want to was a factor, as well as some of the other improvements already mentioned. The video was very much an interest to me as it's what I trained for in college. Will it work out for me, who knows, but if not I can always sell it and get something different, but I'll never know if I didn't try.

One thing I'm curious about Reilly is how much processing power do you have, and how much do you think is needed. It's high time I upgraded my computer anyway. I've learned from looking at others' work that the camera is able to be handheld relatively well, and that older lenses work just fine. So I'm curious just how much of a computer upgrade I'll need. Now saying all this, there is nothing wrong with the DX format, and once my life savings have been regenerated, I do intend to get another as a second body next year, depending on what the specs for it will be...
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brokensocialscenester
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to herbymel, Jun 3, 2012

If I had a D7000, my next camera would be a D800 if I wanted to combine the D7000's reach with full frame quality.
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jonikon
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 3, 2012

2005magnum wrote:

Other then the obvious (cost of camera, upgrading lenses to FF and upgrading computer and storage)

I have been looking for a compelling reason to upgrade and I finally found one. Before I mention a very strong reason to upgrade, the general images I have viewed from the D800 are just not that much better then what I have taken with my D7000. However, today I viewed some magnificent bird images from the D800 and the crops from those images were superb.

However, I rarely if ever shoot birds. No reason to switch, but for those of you who are birders, going to a D800 with the ability to crop and even shoot DX, may be a good reason to upset your spouse with a major expenditure.
--

I tend to agree with you. Unless I get serious about my landscape photography, it would be hard to justify the extra cost involved in going to FF. Also, glad to hear you don't shoot birds!

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Barry Fitzgerald
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to jonikon, Jun 3, 2012

jonikon wrote:

I tend to agree with you. Unless I get serious about my landscape photography, it would be hard to justify the extra cost involved in going to FF. Also, glad to hear you don't shoot birds!

I used to get this when I shot 35mm for landscapes (still do some 35mm film even today) why use 35mm when you can use MF or LF?

It's that old pony I said above "good enough"

Being serious about landscape photography is a state of mind not of camera pixels. Best scenic shot I ever took on a broken 35mm compact with a fixed lens and it underexposed the shot too. I can't even get a good A4 off of it..but it still kicks a$$ IMO of course. Once we hit double digit resolution wise it ceased to be a practical issue for most people bar heavy crop merchants.

But it works wonders for marketing.

Making good shots and big shots are not the same thing I've seen some excellent 6mp larger prints for landscape. Anyone who thinks you need 24mp or 36mp is not really tuned into reality that much.

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sd40
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 3, 2012

Some of us just don't want to carry a 1000-gram camera body and heavy lens. You know the saying, the best camera is the one you have with you, not the one you left at home. A 550-gram body and lighter lens is my ideal. I am sticking with it.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to herbymel, Jun 3, 2012

My Dell i7 laptop with the standard 8 gig memory yanks the files around with no problem, Herby. Pretty much the same as the D7000. Previews in Lightroom take a few seconds each longer to render, but that is to be expected. File saves are the same, as in quick. Make sure you get a 1080p monitor if you don't already.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that the D800e is also the best DX camera in existence owing to better color accuracy, a bit lower noise, greater resolution owing to the lack of a standard AA filter and autofocus as noted. I'm not in the market for the Holy Trinity any time soon, so a trio of primes and a 70-300VR will be fine. And the trusty 10-24 Nikon, which looks better than it ever has on the D800e. I might have a look at the Samyang 14mm, too.

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sd40
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Jun 4, 2012

Reilly Deifenbach wrote:

Make sure you get a 1080p monitor if you don't already.

Why does this matter?

And the trusty 10-24 Nikon, which looks better than it ever has on the D800e.

Do you mean in DX mode? From what I have read here, if used in FX mode DX lenses will not cover the full sensor up to something like 1.5X their minimum focal length, in this case 15mm or so. I am still not sure whether the D800 even allows you to use a DX lens in FX mode. At least one user has claimed here that the default is to automatically switch to DX mode but that this default can be overridden.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to sd40, Jun 4, 2012

sd40 wrote:

Reilly Deifenbach wrote:

Make sure you get a 1080p monitor if you don't already.

Why does this matter?

Two million pixels is twice as sharp as one. Like getting a new pair of eyes. Dell Ultrasharp available for as little as $249. 4 million coming soon to a desktop near you.

And the trusty 10-24 Nikon, which looks better than it ever has on the D800e.

Do you mean in DX mode? From what I have read here, if used in FX mode DX lenses will not cover the full sensor up to something like 1.5X their minimum focal length, in this case 15mm or so. I am still not sure whether the D800 even allows you to use a DX lens in FX mode. At least one user has claimed here that the default is to automatically switch to DX mode but that this default can be overridden.

Yes, in DX mode. It works even better than it did on the D7000. I haven't tried the override yet, but 15mm using the full FX frame would be useful.

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spbStan
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to 2005magnum, Jun 4, 2012

The D7000 is an excellent camera and the best image taking device among crop sensor cameras. When shooting at 100 ISO little can touch it.

But D800 is a major step up. Not for web posting, you can't see the difference that is really there, unless cropping or printing....or seeing it on a new iPAD with 250 dots per inch.

Why else is the d800 deserving the game changer title? From my opinion and experience with other good cameras, this is the first of the camera to get it all right. Metering is great in part due to a new high res sensor that also helps tracking moving targets in burst mode while the mirror is up. Color is wonderful, focusing acquisition and tracking, down to -2ev, AWB that handles mixed sources without a hitch, and many subsystems acting as if designed to work together. It is the easiest camera I've ever used get it right without fuss or doubt, first shot. There are lots of reasons to own the D800 besides incredible detail and lack of noise. Maybe not everyone needs 14.4 stops of DR but it can't hurt. Maybe not everyone needs the best crop camera plus the best fx camera in one modestly priced box, but it does not hurt to have a spare superD7000 hidden in there someplace. Oh, yes, video worth watching can't hurt either. Not needing a 400 2.8 if you have a 200mm 2.8 already can't hurt either and saves you $8,000.
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herbymel
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Jun 4, 2012

Reilly Diefenbach wrote:

sd40 wrote:

Reilly Deifenbach wrote:

Make sure you get a 1080p monitor if you don't already.

Why does this matter?

Two million pixels is twice as sharp as one. Like getting a new pair of eyes. Dell Ultrasharp available for as little as $249. 4 million coming soon to a desktop near you.

And the trusty 10-24 Nikon, which looks better than it ever has on the D800e.

Do you mean in DX mode? From what I have read here, if used in FX mode DX lenses will not cover the full sensor up to something like 1.5X their minimum focal length, in this case 15mm or so. I am still not sure whether the D800 even allows you to use a DX lens in FX mode. At least one user has claimed here that the default is to automatically switch to DX mode but that this default can be overridden.

Yes, in DX mode. It works even better than it did on the D7000. I haven't tried the override yet, but 15mm using the full FX frame would be useful.

Yes, from what I've been discovering you can use these lenses in FX mode...and the one I'll be using in particular the tokina 12-24 doesn't vignette until about 18mm. I'm still waiting to see shots, but another user has told me that he uses it as his 24mm lens.
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sd40
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Jun 4, 2012

In reply to my question about why having a 1080p monitor matters, Reilly Deifenbach wrote:

Two million pixels is twice as sharp as one. Like getting a new pair of eyes. Dell Ultrasharp available for as little as $249. 4 million coming soon to a desktop near you.

I respectfully request a little more explanation. I own several 1920x1200 monitors and have followed the technology on HardForum for several years, but I have to see a clear explanation of the advantages. I know about the advantage of rendering 1080p material at its native (or larger) size. As for the rest, my limited understanding, which may be mistaken, is that the advantage consists of squeezing more resolution--aka as "real estate--into the same screen size. This supposedly provides better rendering of detail. I realize that 1920x1200 display, for instance, has only about 2.3 megapixels, far smaller than the images generated by today's DSLRs. What I do not understand is how this is supposed to work for everything other than viewing images. Text, for instance. Think how small it will be if you are trying to display a very large resolution on a 24, 27, or 30-inch screen. Oh sure it can be adjusted within limits, but are those limits consistent with the resolution increase that is assumed?

As I said, some more explanation about your assumptions would be great.

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to sd40, Jun 4, 2012

1920 X 1200 is even better if you are doing prints that size. The reason I mentioned 1080p is that a lot of folks on this board are using 720p monitors or god forbid a mangy old tube. 1080p is now plenty cheap enough and is a far better thing to critique your pics than the next thing down. I usually crop 16X9, because I almost never print, preferring the slam of a 55" LED at 16X9 ratio for my own enjoyment and that of my victims.

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mistermejia
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Re: Why I am not jumping to the D800 and sticking with D7000 for now
In reply to Reilly Diefenbach, Jun 23, 2012

Nikon, the manufacturer itself specifically expained the purpose and application of the D4 and D800, it is very simple, NOT for most of us. I love my D7000 also and i hardly set it to 16MP.

Like some folks have stated, this cameras or any HIGH MP camera is for sports, and for those folks that work for National Geographic where they sure as hell want to be as far as possible from tigers lions and african elephants.

The rest or 90% of us don't print poster size stuff, period. Most of us just like to stare in front of our computer monitors admireing our own photos blowing them up to 100%.

What is the point of that, really???

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