Windows 8 Release Preview build 8400 out now !

Started Jun 1, 2012 | Discussions
Joe Ogiba
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Windows 8 Release Preview build 8400 out now !
Jun 1, 2012
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lemon_juice
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Re: Windows 8 Release Preview build 8400 out now !
In reply to Joe Ogiba, Jun 1, 2012

This looks like aero with square window edges but I've heard MS was going to get rid of aero? Or perhaps they are going to show the final skin in the release version so that testers have no way of complaining beforehand?

What has changed? In the previous release they removed the ability to get rid of metro in the registry. I expect that this time they have removed the ability for any 3rd party applications to get around metro or install a classic start menu...

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Earthlight
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Re: Windows 8 Release Preview build 8400 out now !
In reply to Joe Ogiba, Jun 1, 2012

Looks pretty nice but I thought they had done away with transparency?

I will wait for the first SP and then upgrade from Win Vista 64-bit. It has been serving me very well though.

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Joe Ogiba
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Re: Windows 8 Release Preview build 8400 out now !
In reply to Earthlight, Jun 1, 2012

I run them all. On my i7 MacBook Air I have Lion and on my MacMini I run XP Pro using VMware Fusion.

PC boot screen from February 2012:

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Deleted1929
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Never fear - the cure is already available
In reply to Joe Ogiba, Jun 1, 2012

http://www.ubuntu.com/

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Joe Ogiba
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Re: Never fear - the cure is already available
In reply to Deleted1929, Jun 1, 2012

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Jim Cockfield
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Wrong upgrade incentives...
In reply to Joe Ogiba, Jun 1, 2012

Microsoft will let anyone buying a new PC with Windows 7 on it between June 2, 2012 and January 31, 2013 upgrade to Windows 8 for only $14.99

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/news/Press/2012/Jun12/06-01MSWindowsPR.aspx

I think they need to do it the other way around. IOW, they should make so that if you buy a PC with Win 8 on it, you can change it to Win 7 for only $14.99.

Otherwise, returns on new PCs with Win 8 preinstalled are probably going to upset retailers and hurt PC sales, thanks to user frustration and bad first impressions trying to use Metro.

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mrsfixit
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Re: Never fear - the cure is already available
In reply to Deleted1929, Jun 1, 2012

sjgcit wrote:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Seriously?

Ubuntu's Unity GUI is every bit as bad as Windows 8 Metro.

I still use Ubuntu 10.04 on my desktop, and will keep it until support ends, but settled on Xubuntu for my laptops.

At least it's got a menu like a normal OS and you can find stuff without having to "search" for it...

http://xubuntu.org/

And if one doesn't like Xubuntu there's always Kubuntu, Mint, or quite a few other distro's that have normal user-friendly interfaces...

Candice in PA

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CAcreeks
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Linux Mint, Kubuntu, SUSE?
In reply to mrsfixit, Jun 1, 2012

mrsfixit wrote:

sjgcit wrote:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Seriously? Ubuntu's Unity GUI is every bit as bad as Windows 8 Metro.

A co-worker likes Unity, but I'm not sure I would. Maybe I could get used to it.

Gnome has been fine for the last 4 years, although I wish it looked better with vertical menu bar, and it doesn't always put UI elements in the same spot every time it starts up.

Guess I prefer KDE, therefore the question.

Linux Mint, Kubuntu, or SUSE? One review says Kubuntu 12.04 is buggy, or relatively less polished than Ubuntu. I liked SUSE last time I tried it, but it is less popular than Ubuntu and Mint, and I'm not sure a wide variety o fpackages are readily available.

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John W  Hall
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Not heard much about the new MS-Licensed filesystem lock-in recently
In reply to lemon_juice, Jun 1, 2012

Not heard much about the new MS-Licensed filesystem lockiin recently,

so was that an untrue rumour, are they keeping quiet about it, have they dropped it?

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Barry Fitzgerald
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Re: Wrong upgrade incentives...
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Jun 1, 2012

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Otherwise, returns on new PCs with Win 8 preinstalled are probably going to upset retailers and hurt PC sales, thanks to user frustration and bad first impressions trying to use Metro.

If Win 8 bombs as most expect MS will likely be in the same situation with Vista ie OEM's asking for XP options for buyers.

Everything I've seen about Win 8 tells me it's going to be deeply unpopular unless MS de-metro the final build (I'd say not to install as default on non touchscreen devices let users decide) and put the start menu back

The attack on the start menu is a blunder of epic proportions

MS are walking into the fire on this one big time even more so than they did with Vista

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Jim Cockfield
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Re: Linux Mint, Kubuntu, SUSE?
In reply to CAcreeks, Jun 2, 2012

CAcreeks wrote:

A co-worker likes Unity, but I'm not sure I would. Maybe I could get used to it.

Gnome has been fine for the last 4 years, although I wish it looked better with vertical menu bar, and it doesn't always put UI elements in the same spot every time it starts up.

Luninux OS 12 is another distro you may want to look at. Beta 2 is out now. So, the final release shouldn't be too far behind.

It's using an Ubuntu 12.04 base with what appears to be a Gnome 3 shell with Cairo Dock installed (for a Mac OS X look and feel), and it's using some extensions to give it Gnome 2 like menus, too..

Here's a video review of the current stable release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=31UhVksyr7M

Here's their web site:

http://luninuxos.com/

If you click on the Download Menu, you'll see a link to download the new Beta version (Luninux OS 12 Beta 2), that's using an Ubuntu 12.04 LTS base.

Guess I prefer KDE, therefore the question.

I tend to stick with KDE based distros. I use Mepis 11 (using a Debian Stable base) most of the time as my primary OS.

Linux Mint, Kubuntu, or SUSE? One review says Kubuntu 12.04 is buggy, or relatively less polished than Ubuntu.

I've got Kubuntu 12.04 running in a Virtual Machine under VirtualBox, using Mepis 11 as the host OS, and I also have it installed on a partition for use by a little Dell 11Z netbook. It started out a bit buggy. But, they've released a lot of updates since Kubuntu 12.04 was first announced. With all of the updates installed, it's fine from what I can see running it.

I liked SUSE last time I tried it, but it is less popular than Ubuntu and Mint, and I'm not sure a wide variety o fpackages are readily available.

I've got OpenSUSE 12.1 on a partition and it runs fine. I'm not a huge fan of YaST though (the package management system it uses), and it can be a bit confusing figuring out the repos and packages you want to use. But, it's steadily improving with each new release.

Note that OpenSUSE 12.2 should be released next month (tentative target of July 11). Beta 1 just hit the mirrors (it was due out on May 24, but got delayed). I don't think they've announced Beta 1 yet. But, it's on the mirrors now. So, the announcement should follow soon. You'll find both 32 bit and 64 bit versions with either Gnome 3.4 or KDE 4.8.2 installed. I'd just grab the KDE release if you like KDE better (get the i386 .iso Live CD for the 32 bit version, or get the x86_64 .iso for the 64 bit version if you want to try it):

http://download.opensuse.org/distribution/12.2-Beta1/iso/

I haven't tested it yet (so it may still be a bit buggy). This beta was preceded by several Milestone (think Alpha) releases and will be followed by 12.2 RC1 and 12.2 RC2 before the final OpenSUSE 12.2 release hits in July.

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CAcreeks
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Re: Linux Mint, Kubuntu, SUSE?
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Jun 2, 2012

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Luninux OS 12 is another distro you may want to look at. Beta 2 is out now. So, the final release shouldn't be too far behind. Here's a video review of the current stable release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=31UhVksyr7M

Yes, a little too much like MacOS for my taste.

I think the Mint 13 "Cinnamon" desktop looks better. It appears Cinnamon is Gnome based (?).

Thanks Jim for your comments about Mepis, Kubuntu, and OpenSUSE.

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Jim Cockfield
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Re: Linux Mint, Kubuntu, SUSE?
In reply to CAcreeks, Jun 2, 2012

CAcreeks wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Luninux OS 12 is another distro you may want to look at. Beta 2 is out now. So, the final release shouldn't be too far behind. Here's a video review of the current stable release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=31UhVksyr7M

Yes, a little too much like MacOS for my taste.

Just uninstall the dock and use the regular (Gnome 2 style ) menus that are already installed in the top panel. You don't have to use the dock (and you could change the theme to something you like better, too).

I think the Mint 13 "Cinnamon" desktop looks better. It appears Cinnamon is Gnome based (?).

It's based on Gnome 2 (as is Mate, which is another desktop you can use in Mint).

I haven't tried Mint 13 yet. But, comments I've seen imply that Mate may be a bit more stable. Cinnamon does seem to be well liked for the most part though.

Thanks Jim for your comments about Mepis, Kubuntu, and OpenSUSE.

You may also want to keep an eye out for respins of Fedora 17. Fedora 17 was just recently released with lots of new technology and features. Here's the release announcement:

http://distrowatch.com/?newsid=07273

But, Fedora can be a bit hard to "tame" for new Linux users. One way of looking at it is that Fedora is a large testbed so that Red Hat has more users testing technology for use in it's commercial linux product. lol

So, it's best to wait for a respin of it.

One Fedora respin I've tried before and was very impressed with was Kororaa. Here's a review of the KDE version of Kororaa 16 (based on Fedora 16):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KevL3963yM&feature=channel&list=UL

In fact, when I saw the Fedora 17 announcement, the first thing I did was check out their web site to see if a Beta based on it was out yet.:

https://kororaa.org/

Nope... not yet. But, digging through the forums the developer has surveys going for the nickname of the next release, etc. So, it shouldn't take too long before he's got a beta out using a Fedora 17 base.

It's nice in that it's very customized with third party repos already setup and most apps you'd need already installed. I had Kororaa 16 installed in a VM for a while since Fedora is pretty good about keeping newer versions of most software in their repos compared to many other distros, and Kororaa has some of the third party repos enabled, too.

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Jim Cockfield
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Themes....
In reply to Jim Cockfield, Jun 2, 2012

Jim Cockfield wrote:

CAcreeks wrote:

Jim Cockfield wrote:

Luninux OS 12 is another distro you may want to look at. Beta 2 is out now. So, the final release shouldn't be too far behind. Here's a video review of the current stable release:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=31UhVksyr7M

Yes, a little too much like MacOS for my taste.

Just uninstall the dock and use the regular (Gnome 2 style ) menus that are already installed in the top panel. You don't have to use the dock (and you could change the theme to something you like better, too).

IOW, that distro appears to have a good selection of preinstalled software, and also has extensions with Gnome 2 style menus available in the top panel. One of the Windows users on a Forum I'm an Admin for recently installed it and was impressed (and he'd already tried a number of other distros before he got to that one).

He especially liked that he was able to easily install some of his Windows apps using it (since it has Wine Tricks, Wine Doors and more preinstalled), and it appears to run well on older hardware from what he found using it (he was trying to find a distro that worked well on an older box he has, but wanted to install some Windows software he relies on like Adobe Elements and more, too).

If you don't want a Mac OS X look and feel, just uninstall the Dock (or just don't use it since it's auto hiding by default anyway). Then, just install a different theme if you want different color combos, or minimize, maximize and close buttons that look different, etc.

You'll find loads (think hundreds) of different theme choices available in modern distros to easily change the look and feel of your desktop, where others have already tweaked many things to the way they like things to look. So, just browse through the available choices, find one that's close to what you like and then tweak it more to taste.

For example, the very first thing I do when installing a KDE based distro like Kubuntu is go into System Setting> Workspace Appearance and select a different theme.

I just install the "Elegance" Theme (which is the same one used by Mepis 11), since I like it's default color combinations, icon styles, minimize/maximize button stye, etc. I like it so much that I don't even need to tweak individual colors for anything else (although I do install a different wallpaper).

But, other desktops (Gnome, etc.) let you do the same thing (just change the theme to something you like better so that you're tweaking the "look and feel" to taste).

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mrsfixit
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Re: Linux Mint, Kubuntu, SUSE?
In reply to CAcreeks, Jun 2, 2012

CAcreeks wrote:

mrsfixit wrote:

sjgcit wrote:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

Seriously? Ubuntu's Unity GUI is every bit as bad as Windows 8 Metro.

A co-worker likes Unity, but I'm not sure I would. Maybe I could get used to it.

I tried Unity several times. No disrespect to the developers, but I hate it. It is one of the most unintuitive GUI's I have ever used.

In all the years I've used computers, every OS I've used has had a menu, and I've always had access to system settings and files.

Gnome has been fine for the last 4 years, although I wish it looked better with vertical menu bar, and it doesn't always put UI elements in the same spot every time it starts up.

I can't stand that vertical bar. I hate the icons, and I hate the way it hogs screen space.

I also hate having to search for my programs. In Gnome 2, and Xubuntu 12 for that matter, I have a top and bottom panel with all my launchers. Opening a program takes ONE click. I can't see how having to now search for the application I want is intuitive or helpful.

To me this is like having a browser that doesn't allow bookmarking. Your bookmark allows you to go where you need to be in 1 click. Imagine having to start typing every site into the urlbar to go to a site. Sure, after typing in a few letters, the right address will appear, and it gets the job done- but how much of a PITA would this be compared to clicking a bookmark?

Yes, I know Ubuntu has some kind of fallback mode, but I hear the dev's are going to be taking that away next release as well.

Unity is like the GUI on a smart phone or tablet. This does not belong on a desktop computer AFAIC. That's my personal opinion anyway.

Guess I prefer KDE, therefore the question.

I haven't really worked with KDE all that much. I tried it on my laptop briefly. It was ok but a bit too resource hungry. I may give it a shot on my desktop system.

Linux Mint, Kubuntu, or SUSE? One review says Kubuntu 12.04 is buggy, or relatively less polished than Ubuntu. I liked SUSE last time I tried it, but it is less popular than Ubuntu and Mint, and I'm not sure a wide variety o fpackages are readily available.

I'm running Mint 11 on one of my netbooks, and it's lovely, but support ends in October so it's time for that to go too.

I want to stay with the Debian/Ubuntu family. I'm just used to it I guess, plus there is always loads of software available.

My desktop is still running Ubuntu 10.04, and as much as I love it- it's getting a bit long in the tooth. So I'm distro hopping again too...

Gnome 3, why did you have to go and complicate my life? LOL

Candice in PA

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Birk Binnard
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Not for me
In reply to Joe Ogiba, Jun 2, 2012

No, I won't be an early adopter. And probably not a late adopter either.

Why? Very simple - at least so far I have not seen any compelling reason to change from Win7-64.

Up to now I haven't paid much attention to Win8 because I figured it was far from being finalized so why bother. But now that the first official preview is out I've watched a bunch of the YouTube videos and the most positive comment I can make so far is "ho-hum."

My current dual-screen Win7 system is very productive for me (main screen for viewing/working/design areas and 2nd screen for Properties/Code/Help/File Mgr.); I see no way the Metro interface can improve on this and in fact could only weaken it.

Even if I wanted to (which I certainly don't), switching my 2 LCD monitors to touch-screens would degrade my productivity. I remember the early days of computer graphics when I used a keyboard, light-pen, and button box (this was before mice/trackballs existed); continually reaching up to the screen to select something got to be quite tiring after several hours.

Sure you can use the standard Windows interface in Win8, but what is the justification to switch in that case? I just don't see it.

The people I feel sorry for are the tech support folks in companies who have to take care of lots of users and their systems. They fill fight Win8 tooth and nail because all it will mean for them is huge headaches. Change just for the sake of change is nothing more than marketing hype.

Where's the beef?
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CAcreeks
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Re: Linux Mint, Kubuntu, SUSE?
In reply to mrsfixit, Jun 2, 2012

mrsfixit wrote:

I can't stand that vertical bar. I hate the icons, and I hate the way it hogs screen space.

I mean the horizontal bar with menu picks (Applications, Places, System...) and shortcut program-start icons. Screens are getting too wide and short, especially with the widescreen trend, and I prefer to waste real estate along the sides.

I'm running Mint 11 on one of my netbooks, and it's lovely, but support ends in October so it's time for that to go too.

Mint 13 seems good. The Cinnamon desktop looks like Gnome 2 but is based on Gnome 3 libraries for more refinement.

I want to stay with the Debian/Ubuntu family. I'm just used to it I guess, plus there is always loads of software available.

Absolutely. It saves a lot of time to download dpkg packages instead of having to compile source code for recent releases, etc.

My desktop is still running Ubuntu 10.04, and as much as I love it - it's getting a bit long in the tooth. So I'm distro hopping again too...

For you, Mint 13 might be the answer.

For me Kubuntu 12.04 might be it, guess I should try it, although I might just be wasting my time. Gwenview is the only KDE-based program that I remember using on Gnome. It requires a massive number of KDE packages to run under Ubuntu 10.04 Gnome. It is almost as good as Irfanview on Windows, better in some ways, but mostly a bit worse. Eye of Gnome 2 ( eog ) is basically worthless.

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CAcreeks
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Windows 8 Server might be interesting
In reply to Birk Binnard, Jun 2, 2012

Birk Binnard wrote:

Up to now I haven't paid much attention to Win8 because I figured it was far from being finalized so why bother. But now that the first official preview is out I've watched a bunch of the YouTube videos and the most positive comment I can make so far is "ho-hum."

Certainly the home/pro desktop editions merit a big shrug.

Windows 8 Server has a whole bunch of new features and might prove popular in datacenters (unrelated to photography, however).

Windows Server 2003 was abbreviated W2k3 and Windows Server 2008 was abbreviated W2k8, however I am not sure what the new abbreviation will be. WS8 or W8S?

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Brad99
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Re: Not for me
In reply to Birk Binnard, Jun 2, 2012

There'll be MS programs that can access parts of Win8 that others can't so will have a big advantage over 3rd party programs, and when you want that program you're hooked; i.e. it won't work on Win7 so you're stuffed.

Hopefully that event will be a long way off as MS haven't really written any apps much good apart from Office in 20 yrs.

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