Which Sony cams have auto ISO in M mode?

Started May 26, 2012 | Discussions
copejorg1
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Re: M = full user control - what about "auto-ISO" at PP?
In reply to jimrpdx, May 27, 2012

jimrpdx wrote:

Nordstjernen wrote:

Ray Maines wrote:

I can see your point, but I've always felt that Manual means, you know, Manual. Not 2/3's Manual.

Agree fully with you! I don't want some auto-stuff that is messing up my manual exposure settings.

This is why Pentax' arrangement is nice - M for all manual, TAv for auto-iso manual. They must have a patent, it's amazing that more companies don't make it so.

Personally, I don't much care for that way of doing it. I always just considered Pentax's TAv mode to be a marketing stunt -- offering the exact same functionality that Canon, Nikon, Olympus (okay, everyone but Sony/Minolta) were offering, but presented in a way that makes it look like more than it is.

I prefer incorporating it into M mode, because it doesn't clutter up the mode dial with yet another "exposure" mode. And you lose nothing in terms of the existing functionality of M mode, because you need to choose an ISO setting when shooting in M mode, anyway. So what harm does it do if one of those setting choices happens to be an ungrayed-out "Auto"?

Greg

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PhotoCycler
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Re: M = full user control - what about "auto-ISO" at PP?
In reply to jonas ar, May 27, 2012

jonas ar wrote:

PhotoCycler wrote:

ISO is an important factor for exposure, and AutiISO really should be available in all modes.

Exposure is measured in Lux seconds (or photons/area). Obviously, ISO does not influence that except for the indirect effect through meter calibration

I recommend reading these threads and checking out the images to see how ISO affects exposure:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41550697
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41614973

In M-mode you can set the shutterspeed as required to prevent motion blur and the aperture to your required DOF and let the autoISO produce a jpg with appropraite brightness.

According to this thread, that is not true, because AutoISO doesn't work in M mode.

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Dave Oddie
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Re: Why I like auto ISO in M mode
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, May 27, 2012

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

Can't understand any argument against this, as no camera forces the user to use auto ISO in M mode - it would be OPTIONAL...

I am not saying Sony should not implement this feature but that people managed to take such shots with far more primitive equipment in the past by adopting different techniques and these techniques still work.

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Clayton1985
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In reply to Marco Cinnirella, May 27, 2012

My guess is that many of the very same people dismissing this feature are doing essentially the same thing the hard way - set shutter speed and aperture to their desired setting then adjust ISO to achieve the correct exposure... in other words autoISO.

It really is simple.... you HAVE to compromise somewhere if you can't get the correct exposure with your ideal settings. Let the photographer choose which setting to compromise and then let the camera do the rest. You can already set a fixed shutter speed and ISO and have the camera adjust aperture. You can already set a fixed aperture and ISO and have the camera adjust shutter speed. But you can't set a fixed shutter speed and aperture and have the camera adjust ISO.... why?

There is no need to get stuck on it being called "Manual" just to not include a very useful feature. I guess they could always add another mode to make the "Manual means Manual" people happy but it seems like a lot of work for no logical reason.

Ok, get rid of Manual mode and call it ISO mode :).

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NPPhoto
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Extrtemely STUPID on Sony's part...
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, May 27, 2012

to exclude this one SOLID feature available on other cameras I wish I had on the A65. I started my photography on good ol film cameras but I can certainly appreciate technology and I will take its help EVERYTIME I can because life is too short to fumble around.

I don't understand this PURIST argument that the camera should leave EVERYTHING to the user since the mode is MANUAL? Makes ZERO sense. If I want to choose the A and the S and let the camera give me the right ISO then I get total control over action shots. I don't want to be shooting at an ISO that is not right when my camera is shooting a BIF and the light changes!

I don't want to spend a boatload of time doing PP. Just give me the damn ISO right. For the PURISTS, you can set your camera to whatever ISO pleases you and let the rest of us dumb shooters set it to AUTO.

ISn't that what you guys are doing in A and S modes anyway? I am sorry but that is just PURE DUMB of Sony. I like my A65 in every way possible and can ovelook this but they completely f&^&#d it up on this one. They gave us a stupid TC but not this?

-- hide signature --

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jonas ar
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Re: M = full user control - what about "auto-ISO" at PP?
In reply to PhotoCycler, May 27, 2012

PhotoCycler wrote:

jonas ar wrote:

PhotoCycler wrote:

ISO is an important factor for exposure, and AutiISO really should be available in all modes.

Exposure is measured in Lux seconds (or photons/area). Obviously, ISO does not influence that except for the indirect effect through meter calibration

I recommend reading these threads and checking out the images to see how ISO affects exposure:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41550697
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41614973

Thanks for the links. May i suggest this link in return:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39918014

In M-mode you can set the shutterspeed as required to prevent motion blur and the aperture to your required DOF and let the autoISO produce a jpg with appropraite brightness.

According to this thread, that is not true, because AutoISO doesn't work in M mode.

I should have qualified my statement to say that it depends on a proper implementation of autoISO.

Kind regards,

Jonas

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Marco Cinnirella
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In reply to jonas ar, May 27, 2012

On my EP-2 there is a menu option to enable or disable auto ISO in M mode - so the purists can disable it (intriguingly the default setting is disabled in M mode) while people like me can enable it and make use of it - this seems a win-win way of doing it ?

jonas ar wrote:

PhotoCycler wrote:

jonas ar wrote:

PhotoCycler wrote:

ISO is an important factor for exposure, and AutiISO really should be available in all modes.

Exposure is measured in Lux seconds (or photons/area). Obviously, ISO does not influence that except for the indirect effect through meter calibration

I recommend reading these threads and checking out the images to see how ISO affects exposure:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41550697
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1037&thread=41614973

Thanks for the links. May i suggest this link in return:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1037&message=39918014

In M-mode you can set the shutterspeed as required to prevent motion blur and the aperture to your required DOF and let the autoISO produce a jpg with appropraite brightness.

According to this thread, that is not true, because AutoISO doesn't work in M mode.

I should have qualified my statement to say that it depends on a proper implementation of autoISO.

Kind regards,

Jonas

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Nordstjernen
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Re: Who is against auto ISO???
In reply to JasperD, May 27, 2012

JasperD wrote:

Sorry, I´ll say it once more: that´s just your own stupid reasoning.

Different point of view. Not worse than that! This is a discussion forum, isn't it?

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JasperD
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Re: Who is against auto ISO???
In reply to Nordstjernen, May 27, 2012

This one is a bit more than that actually, as your point of view, being stupidly shared by Sony or so it seems, prevents the guys like me wishing it to be using it. On the contrary, our wishes if granted would not destroy yours at all, you´d still have the choice of not using it.

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Nordstjernen
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Re: Who is against auto ISO???
In reply to JasperD, May 27, 2012

JasperD wrote:

This one is a bit more than that actually, as your point of view, being stupidly shared by Sony or so it seems, prevents the guys like me wishing it to be using it.

If you have read my answers, I don't talk against an option with manual shutter and aperture settings combined with auto ISO. I just don't think is is wise to mix this with the fully user controlled M setting (no auto at all).

What is so stupid about this?

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JasperD
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Re: Who is against auto ISO???
In reply to Nordstjernen, May 27, 2012

Stupid is asking for yet another button to be able to select a menu item which is already there but greyed out. It´s also stupid to have it greyed out to start with, as it has always been already there. It´s further stupid as your ´solution´ implies a hardware change to operate, the worst case IMHO.

The rest is a a matter of interpretation. I don´t see a conflict between M and selectable settings, even when one or several of them are reading ´AUTO´ or represent ranges. Or said otherwise, ISO is not some special dedicated setting in my mind, you can always set it whatever mode you chose. Your interpretation just does´t want me to use what is readily possible and easily achievable, while mine does not hamper with your preferred way of operating.

Enough said on that.

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copejorg1
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Re: Who is against auto ISO???
In reply to Nordstjernen, May 27, 2012

Nordstjernen wrote:

JasperD wrote:

This one is a bit more than that actually, as your point of view, being stupidly shared by Sony or so it seems, prevents the guys like me wishing it to be using it.

If you have read my answers, I don't talk against an option with manual shutter and aperture settings combined with auto ISO. I just don't think is is wise to mix this with the fully user controlled M setting (no auto at all).

Why not? Canon, Nikon and Olympus do it that way, and have done so for a long time now. Can you tell me what sort of negative repercussions have resulted from those manufacturers allowing the user to choose auto ISO in M mode? Or show me a link to someplace where a user of one of those cameras said it had caused him any sort of trouble, and that he wished he didn't have that option?

What is so stupid about this?

Because it's a bunch of hand-wringing about something that all the other DSLR manufacturers (and their users) have long since proven not to be a problem. And because it's the kind of attitude that gives Sony a rationale for not providing the option to those of us who would like to have it.

Greg

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BertIverson
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Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, May 27, 2012

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

I was rather disappointed to see my a57 doesn't offer this as I thought Sony had started to include it

Auto ISO in M mode is certainly a nice feature for JPG shooters. However, a work around is to shoot M mode RAW at base ISO and click AUTO in ACR. (then, optionally, hand adjust brightness of your keepers). Works fine for me on my "old" A700.
Bert
Edit: Just noticed that Nordstjernen said same thing this several hours ago.

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Elgsdyr
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Easily dealt with...
In reply to Nordstjernen, May 27, 2012

Nordstjernen wrote:

Agree fully with you! I don't want some auto-stuff that is messing up my manual exposure settings.

What about all the complaints: "Oh darn, I forgot to turn auto ISO off!"

That could be easily dealt with by adding a custom setting to switch "Auto ISO available in M mode" on or off. Very simple. That should satisfy both camps.

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copejorg1
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Re: Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to BertIverson, May 27, 2012

BertIverson wrote:

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

I was rather disappointed to see my a57 doesn't offer this as I thought Sony had started to include it

Auto ISO in M mode is certainly a nice feature for JPG shooters. However, a work around is to shoot M mode RAW at base ISO and click AUTO in ACR. (then, optionally, hand adjust brightness of your keepers). Works fine for me on my "old" A700.
Bert
Edit: Just noticed that Nordstjernen said same thing this several hours ago.

Bert, one of the biggest advantages of digital over film is that digital gives you the ability to "chimp" your images immediately after you take them. So if you got the shot out-of-focus, or it turns out you don't like the composition, or somebody blinked during the exposure, or whatever, you find out about it right then and you can take additional shots until you're sure you've got a keeper.

While it is indeed possible, when shooting RAW with the latest Sony sensors, to shoot about six stops or so underexposed at base ISO, and then brighten it in PP with decent results, that fact doesn't help you at all when you're on the scene, and just want to determine whether you got the damn shot in focus, and you can't because the JPEG that got saved with the RAW file is so dark you can't make out anything when trying to review it on the camera's rear LCD screen.

In other words, not a very useful workaround, in my opinion. Or, to put it another way, auto ISO in M mode would be a nice feature for RAW shooters, as well as for JPEG shooters.

Regards,

Greg

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Marco Cinnirella
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Re: Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to BertIverson, May 28, 2012

I shoot 100% raw and process in LR4 - does that mean I could not benefit from auto ISO in M mode? Answer = no ! And tell all the Canon and Nikon users who use that feature that it is for JPEG shooters only! LR4 can do great things but nothing beats getting the shot right at the time of shooting...

BertIverson wrote:

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

I was rather disappointed to see my a57 doesn't offer this as I thought Sony had started to include it

Auto ISO in M mode is certainly a nice feature for JPG shooters. However, a work around is to shoot M mode RAW at base ISO and click AUTO in ACR. (then, optionally, hand adjust brightness of your keepers). Works fine for me on my "old" A700.
Bert
Edit: Just noticed that Nordstjernen said same thing this several hours ago.

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two_stanley
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Re: Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to copejorg1, May 28, 2012

So Sony is missing this feature, but they have many features that Canikon doesn't offer as well. No camera is perfect, would I like Auto ISO In manual? Sure but I can also live without it. No camera is perfect. And yes that includes CaNikon

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Marco Cinnirella
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Re: Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to two_stanley, May 28, 2012

I agree but does that mean we should never point out the weaknesses in Sony cameras? I do so in the hope that maybe someone at Sony might finally listen and add this feature via firmware update, not as a troll - I am heavily invested in the alpha mount.

two_stanley wrote:

So Sony is missing this feature, but they have many features that Canikon doesn't offer as well. No camera is perfect, would I like Auto ISO In manual? Sure but I can also live without it. No camera is perfect. And yes that includes CaNikon

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sye46
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Re: Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to Marco Cinnirella, May 28, 2012

of course it is valid to point out weaknesses, but i think this has been brought up so many times in the past on this forum, it's kinda getting repetitive. this isn't exactly new news.

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

I agree but does that mean we should never point out the weaknesses in Sony cameras? I do so in the hope that maybe someone at Sony might finally listen and add this feature via firmware update, not as a troll - I am heavily invested in the alpha mount.

two_stanley wrote:

So Sony is missing this feature, but they have many features that Canikon doesn't offer as well. No camera is perfect, would I like Auto ISO In manual? Sure but I can also live without it. No camera is perfect. And yes that includes CaNikon

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BertIverson
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Greg: Work around -- Shoot RAW M mode at base ISO, adjust in ACR
In reply to copejorg1, May 28, 2012

copejorg1 wrote:

BertIverson wrote:

Marco Cinnirella wrote:

I was rather disappointed to see my a57 doesn't offer this as I thought Sony had started to include it

Auto ISO in M mode is certainly a nice feature for JPG shooters. However, a work around is to shoot M mode RAW at base ISO and click AUTO in ACR. (then, optionally, hand adjust brightness of your keepers). Works fine for me on my "old" A700.
Bert
Edit: Just noticed that Nordstjernen said same thing this several hours ago.

... While it is indeed possible, when shooting RAW with the latest Sony sensors, to shoot about six stops or so underexposed at base ISO, and then brighten it in PP with decent results, that fact doesn't help you at all when you're on the scene, and just want to determine whether you got the damn shot in focus, and you can't because the JPEG that got saved with the RAW file is so dark you can't make out anything when trying to review it on the camera's rear LCD screen...

Greg,

I use my work-around only when shooting outdoor action shots like horse jumping with broken clouds, light/dark horses, 360 degree pen. Light varies maybe 3 stops. I set AS for the brightest scenario which is a white horse with full sun in back of me. Not worrying about exposure, I simply concentrate on focus and zoom. Chimping is out of the question because of time constraints . Would I use Auto ISO in M mode if it were available? Absolutely but I would still shoot RAW and adjust brightness in ACR . However, Auto in ACR does the same thing as Auto ISO would do.

As many have said, SONY should put M mode Auto ISO in as a feature as other companies have done and end this discussion.
Cheers,
Bert

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