Am I the only one who thinks the olympus 75mm price is outrageous?

Started May 26, 2012 | Discussions
digifan
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Re: Sgt_Striduuuuh... you my man ... 100+
In reply to Sgt_Strider, May 28, 2012

Sgt_Strider wrote:

I don't understand what is the point of these threads. It's so stupid to even pose these kind of questions. So the op wants pro grade lenses, but not pay pro grade prices? If you want the best, then you'll have to pony up. If you can't afford this lens, then stfu and go with something else. It's simple and this isn't even worth debating.

So very ... very true.

I vote this as the "Answer of the week"!!!

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Dan Clark
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks the olympus 75mm price is outrageous?
In reply to MAubrey, May 28, 2012

Canon.

MAubrey wrote:

What sub-par system?
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PicOne
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Re: You created a DPReview account just to post this? (nt)
In reply to Louis_Dobson, May 28, 2012

Ok, but I was discussing Olympus. Nevertheless, the Panny is still 50-100% more than offerings from Nikon, Canon and Pentax; and for a lens that has a lot less glass (isn't glass supposed to be the main cost-driver)? The Oly 24 f/2.8 is somewhat cost comparable, but over a stop slower (nominally).

I think that basically we resign ourselves to Oly mFT being a niche product, with aspirational/luxury pricing. Rationality doesn't play into Oly's pricing strategy. They are getting what the market is willing to pay (good business), but it would difficult to convince me that their pricing levels have to do with cost of input goods (unless they're a very inefficiently run company.. which prior news might suggest is the case).

Louis_Dobson wrote:

Yes, because it is not the "standard" lens, it is a relatively rare portrait lens.

You'd be better off comparing the 20 f1.7, which is extremely sharp.

PicOne wrote:

I'd suggest that this direction only takes you so far. It might explain the pricing model within Oly's lineup, but not in the marketplace.

See below link to B&H listing of 50mm f/1.8 lenses. 8 lenses from a variety of manufacturers. The Oly 45mm is generally always at least twice as much.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=1.8&atclk=Fixed+Focal+Lengths_50mm&ci=274&N=4288584247+4261208119

Louis_Dobson wrote:

If you need to understand the pricing model, I suggest you compare the 45 and the 75.

Both would seem to be good lenses.

One is metal, so it feels solid, the other is plastic so it feels flimsy.

One is made with ED glass and has very low CA, the other has basic glass and needs CA correction.

Oly are making three ranges of lenses, cheap and cheery, fast but simple and fairly cheap, and fast and complex and expensive. Of which the 17, 45, and 12 and 75 are respective examples.

To complicate matters further they now have weathersealed or not as well.

PicOne wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

Makinations wrote:

In what way?

. . . I expect that you know the answer to your own question.

. . . This OP registers at DPR today and his very first post is a complaint about the 75/1.8's price? How many newcomers here start out like that? No questions about the system or what its strengths and weaknesses might be. Nothing about buying advice but instead a rant about the price of one lens.

The OP was a question about understanding how/why Oly's lenses are priced the way they are. By way of answers, most replies seemed to hover around the logic of simply "if you can't afford it, don't buy it.".. like this is an explanation.

I myself have a strong interest in the mft system (specifically the OMD), however I also want some clarity on how Oly will continue to market and price lenses and accessories going forward. I think that implied in the long-standing promise of mft being: smaller, lighter, more portable, etc.. that the expectation was not that this meant lenses would cost double their larger FF counterparts. Certainly the pentax Q and Nikon 1 series didn't imply this with their lenses.

I see the OP as a query to understand exactly what should be the expected "strengths and weaknesses".. price IS a factor for some people and is a direct trait of the system. Understanding why eg. the the lenses cost so much, IS a request for buying advice. Most people generally 'know' that "hugely expensive" travels with the Leica name/brand. Is the common wisdom that Oly is setting themselves up to pursue upscale/aspirational and expensive position in the market? .. abandon the 'everyman'?

Actually, questioning about pricing strategy makes more sense than many other questions, given the quite thorough review and tips/tricks publications that DPR themselves have already provided.

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peppermonkey
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Re: You created a DPReview account just to post this? (nt)
In reply to PicOne, May 28, 2012

Alright, I don't know anything about the Canon or Nikon but you really can't plug in the Pentax lens into this conversation. The new Pentax 50mm 1.8 is...well, cheap. All plastic (mount may be metal or plastic, I can't remember), light as a feather and fairly cheap feeling. Seems to be a decent lens regardless but it's a damn cheaply made lens compared to 'any' m43 lens ever made with maybe the exception of the new Sigma primes. Anybody wanting a well built lens or optically superior lens in the Pentax camp (and I'm sticking with Pentax brand for the sake of argument) will pick up the DA* 55mm F1.4 lens. Yes I realize it's faster and the FL isn't the exact but if you want quality build lens body with all the bells and whistles, that's where you go. If you want something cheaper you go FA 50mm F1.4. If you want kit lens quality lens with kit lens price then you pick up the new 50mm F1.8.
Price:
DA * 55mm F1.4 = $799
FA 50mm F1.4 = $350-$400
DA 50mm F1.8 = $250

The Oly 45mm F1.8 body build quality and optics seems more inline with the FA 50mm F1.4 so with that in mind, I think the pricing is comparable.

M43 is just too young to have a dirt cheap lens + good quality lens + high-end lens all in around the same FL/DOF lens. So far we have just one. The Oly. And no, the Panny 45mm doesn't count as that is a macro. Pentax has it's own slew of macro lenses to compare too.

PicOne wrote:

Ok, but I was discussing Olympus. Nevertheless, the Panny is still 50-100% more than offerings from Nikon, Canon and Pentax; and for a lens that has a lot less glass (isn't glass supposed to be the main cost-driver)? The Oly 24 f/2.8 is somewhat cost comparable, but over a stop slower (nominally).

I think that basically we resign ourselves to Oly mFT being a niche product, with aspirational/luxury pricing. Rationality doesn't play into Oly's pricing strategy. They are getting what the market is willing to pay (good business), but it would difficult to convince me that their pricing levels have to do with cost of input goods (unless they're a very inefficiently run company.. which prior news might suggest is the case).

Louis_Dobson wrote:

Yes, because it is not the "standard" lens, it is a relatively rare portrait lens.

You'd be better off comparing the 20 f1.7, which is extremely sharp.

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Tim in upstate NY
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This place is full of kindergarteners
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 28, 2012

MichaelKJ wrote:

Unless Oly operates differently than other for-profit businesses, the price is what management thinks will maximize profits. If demand turns out to be weaker than expected, then I'm sure the price will come down.

. . . All corporations do this. The silliness in so many of the posts in this thread is a testament to how little is known about how business works. I'd like to buy a huge estate with landscaping, gardens, servant quarters and an olympic sized swimming pool but they're charging too much money for what I want. . . dirty miserable money gouging basterds.

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peevee1
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks the olympus 75mm price is outrageous?
In reply to Cephalotus, May 28, 2012

Cephalotus wrote:

helimech wrote:

Nope its a 75mm lens so compare to other 70-90mm lenses. Just because the sensor size results in a different angle of view does not mean the lens is a different focal length. This is just the way Olympus and Panasonic want us to think to justify their price points.

Do you really think a 75mm 1.8 for a smaller sensor would cost the same to build/design as a 135mm f2 Lens that has to be built for a much larger sensor?

Most likely not.

But it will cost more than a 75mm lens made for a larger sensor, because the tele lens for the smaller 4/3" sensor has to have double the resolving power (see MTF charts!) and double the precision for CA reduction, centering quality, focus accuracy and so on, if pixels are only half the size compared to the larger sensor.

Now imagine how good the lenses must be on those P&S with tiny 14mpix 1/2.3" sensors. They must've cost millions to make! Millions I say!

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peevee1
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks the olympus 75mm price is outrageous?
In reply to Gregm61, May 28, 2012

Gregm61 wrote:

Does not have to be plastic to be light. The 12mm f2 is very light weight, and I don't think this 75 is going to be any giant either, in size or weight.

Some of us who have made this our one system appreciate the nicer lenses they're making. For everyone else, there are other choices.

Excuse me, but I have to say it. All these arguments that the lens is $900 because it is aluminum instead of plastic is just silly. Aluminum costs about $0.90/lb right now. It's stamping process is not expensive. It adds a few cents to the cost of the lens. Just forget about it already.

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Skeeterbytes
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Re: No view on the Canon, but:
In reply to Louis_Dobson, May 28, 2012

It's made in Japan? I didn't know that. Is the 12 also made there? I'm pretty sure all the other µ4/3 Zuikos are made in China and had been wondering whether Oly was committed to keeping their Japan lens plant open. The relative trickle of 4/3 HG & SHG lenses probably aren't sufficient to keep it viable.

Cheers,

Rick

Louis_Dobson wrote:

The Oly has a complex layout, is metal, and has I think three ragingly expensive ED elements. It's made in Japan, and it is new, at a time when exchange rates means prices have to be higher than of old (and firms hate putting up prices on existing stock).

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Skeeterbytes
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Re: Am I the only one who thinks the olympus 75mm price is outrageous?
In reply to peevee1, May 28, 2012

I doubt much is stamped, rather more likely to be cast and machined.

Injection-molded plastic is pretty dead cheap once the tooling is paid for.

At the end of the day it's partly an esthetic judgment. Metal lenses are, to many, more pleasurable to handle and use. I hold that prejudice myself, but it won't affect whether I do or don't buy lens X. Now, when it comes to the mount flange, I do not like plastic and have a strong preference for metal, as that's a known failure point.

Cheers,

Rick

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Louis_Dobson
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Yes, the 75mm and 12mm are both made in Japan.
In reply to Skeeterbytes, May 28, 2012

and metal bodied and full of ED glass and thus expensive.

Dunno what people expected.

What I hoped for ideally was a 75 version of the 45 at $500.

What I feared was a 75 version of the 12 complete with distance scale at $1,300.

A 75 version of the 12 at $900 is fair enough.

Skeeterbytes wrote:

It's made in Japan? I didn't know that. Is the 12 also made there? I'm pretty sure all the other µ4/3 Zuikos are made in China and had been wondering whether Oly was committed to keeping their Japan lens plant open. The relative trickle of 4/3 HG & SHG lenses probably aren't sufficient to keep it viable.

Cheers,

Rick

Louis_Dobson wrote:

The Oly has a complex layout, is metal, and has I think three ragingly expensive ED elements. It's made in Japan, and it is new, at a time when exchange rates means prices have to be higher than of old (and firms hate putting up prices on existing stock).

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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Yes, the 75mm and 12mm are both made in Japan.
In reply to Louis_Dobson, May 28, 2012

Louis_Dobson wrote:

and metal bodied and full of ED glass and thus expensive.

Dunno what people expected.

What I hoped for ideally was a 75 version of the 45 at $500.

What I feared was a 75 version of the 12 complete with distance scale at $1,300.

A 75 version of the 12 at $900 is fair enough.

. . . I wonder how many here even know that the ED 12-60 is $1000 and the ED 50-200 is $1200. And also that the cheapest SHG is $1800.

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Leo
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Also ....Re: No view on the Canon, but:
In reply to Louis_Dobson, May 28, 2012

Olympus sensor is smaller and to get the same 45 lp/mm as a 45 lp/mm lets say Canon APS-C lens the Olympus lens should be specified up to 57.5 lp/mm.APS-C length is around 23.8 (approx.) and 4/3 is around 18.2 (approx.)
4/3) 18.2x59 = 1071 lp or 2142 dots
APS-C) 23.8x45 = 1071 lp or 2142 dots.

It is more expensive to perfect smaller glass because the tolerences should be tighter.
I am not in the optics ... please, correct me if I am wrong.

However, $900 is too high. Olympus has such equipment and $900 introduction price looks very bad. However Olympus lenses were always expensive while the Pentax lenses were always affordable.
Leo

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Boris
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Re: Also ....Re: No view on the Canon, but:
In reply to Leo, May 28, 2012

Pentax lenses increased dramatically after last months price increase.
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Jim4496
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Most M43 lenses are somewhat more expensive than Canikon
In reply to thinwallet, May 28, 2012

Most m43 lenses are somewhat more expensive than the Canikon lenses.

This is due to lower sales volume, more recent development costs and until recently no competition. Hopefully Sigma will follow up with some more low cost lenses and generally bring the m43 costs down.

Also a lot of m43 users come from point and shoot backgrounds and have never paid for a quality lens so the price surprises them.

Personally I'm going to pass on the 75mm, its just not a size I use.

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Sgt_Strider
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Re: Yes, the 75mm and 12mm are both made in Japan.
In reply to Louis_Dobson, May 28, 2012

Louis_Dobson wrote:
and metal bodied and full of ED glass and thus expensive.

Dunno what people expected.

What I hoped for ideally was a 75 version of the 45 at $500.

What I feared was a 75 version of the 12 complete with distance scale at $1,300.

A 75 version of the 12 at $900 is fair enough.

Skeeterbytes wrote:

It's made in Japan? I didn't know that. Is the 12 also made there? I'm pretty sure all the other µ4/3 Zuikos are made in China and had been wondering whether Oly was committed to keeping their Japan lens plant open. The relative trickle of 4/3 HG & SHG lenses probably aren't sufficient to keep it viable.

Cheers,

Rick

Louis_Dobson wrote:

The Oly has a complex layout, is metal, and has I think three ragingly expensive ED elements. It's made in Japan, and it is new, at a time when exchange rates means prices have to be higher than of old (and firms hate putting up prices on existing stock).

Exactly, it doesn't make any sense why we have babies complaining about this. Are we going to complain about the fact that a BMW 3-series is out of the reach of the majority of people in this world? Are we going to complain that some people can afford to go to Harvard while some can't? People need to get over that. If you can't justify it, then buy something else or don't buy anything at all. Olympus isn't forcing anyone to buy the 75mm f/1.8 lens. No one is entitled to a high quality 75mm f/1.8 lens. We need to get rid of this entitlement mentality that some people seem to have. It's annoying reading those posts. Again if these people can't afford this lens, then it's time to stfu and go and get a better job.

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fermy
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Re: Yes, the 75mm and 12mm are both made in Japan.
In reply to Sgt_Strider, May 28, 2012

Sgt_Strider wrote:

Exactly, it doesn't make any sense why we have babies complaining about this. Are we going to complain about the fact that a BMW 3-series is out of the reach of the majority of people in this world? Are we going to complain that some people can afford to go to Harvard while some can't? People need to get over that. If you can't justify it, then buy something else or don't buy anything at all. Olympus isn't forcing anyone to buy the 75mm f/1.8 lens. No one is entitled to a high quality 75mm f/1.8 lens. We need to get rid of this entitlement mentality that some people seem to have. It's annoying reading those posts. Again if these people can't afford this lens, then it's time to stfu and go and get a better job.

Why do you feel entitled to teach us what we can and can not complain about? Yes, you need to get rid of that mentality that you can tell people to stfu. You will be told to stfu yourself, simple as that.

If you are older than 10, you should have learned by now that you don't buy everything you can afford. If I think a matchbox is overpriced and I don't need the matches immediately, I am not going to buy it. With that in mind, people complaining are really sending the message to Oly. If you are happy with the price, buy the thing and be happy.

Personally, I couldn't care less what the price of this lens is. I am happy with my manual glass, so I don't need that lens. At the same time, if they priced it more reasonably, I would have picked it up at some point. At their chosen price point, I doubt i would ever even consider it, $900 buys a lot of pretty special manual glass, including the lenses in similar focal range.

From my slightly disinterested prospective, the pricing is a huge mistake. With m4/3 they have a chance to be Canon/Nikon of the future, which means that they should go mass appeal instead of exclusivity. Zuiko 45mm was a step in the right direction and a huge success. It helped to strengthen the appeal of the system for enthusiasts immensely. This lens is doing nothing for the system. Noone would switch to m4/3 because it has 75/1.8 for $900, no one would leave the system because such lens does not exist. Sure, some will buy it, but this number will be far far less than even the number of people that bought 12mm, so it's not going to generate a lot of money. All in all, it's a wasted effort, when there still is a number of holes in the lens line-up.

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PicOne
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You can't have it both ways..
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 28, 2012

You've got some arguing that there's revolutionary news lens element engineering, small demand, exotic elements, ED thingmajigs, etc.. all making the lenses more expensive than offerings by Canikonotax. Maybe we're getting somewhere? Olympus wants to bring their brand into Leica-land?

Should an Oly prime 25mm f/2.8 cost $250 for mFT? Yes or no? If you say, yes undoubtedly, what is the implication? And those who answer No... we're just being silly.

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

MichaelKJ wrote:

Unless Oly operates differently than other for-profit businesses, the price is what management thinks will maximize profits. If demand turns out to be weaker than expected, then I'm sure the price will come down.

. . . All corporations do this. The silliness in so many of the posts in this thread is a testament to how little is known about how business works. I'd like to buy a huge estate with landscaping, gardens, servant quarters and an olympic sized swimming pool but they're charging too much money for what I want. . . dirty miserable money gouging basterds.

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zxaar
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Re: My reply
In reply to Vlad S, May 28, 2012

Vlad S wrote:

zxaar wrote:

I bash the system all the time that I do not buy. (have definitely used it for few minutes though). If I bash something it means that I do not like it and i see no sense in buying the things that i do not like.

Let's look at the context. The OP creates an account just to post derogatory comments on a system with which he has no experience. If a stranger walked in to a party and started saying nasty things about the house, he would be considered an a. hole.

Everybody has their own reasons for buying or not not buying the equipment. If something does not make sense to your personally, it does not mean that it has no value for anyone else.

Agree here, this is why I do not see problem in anyone buying anything. Its personal thing.

Only on m43 forums people are expected to buy the things they do not like. Strange people here.

Who ever suggested that? Are you taking things out of context again?

I am not taking out of context. Anytime someone has to say something negative about m43 and if discussion goes further, this ends in the statement that you do not even own it. It is said multimillion times here and said it quite often.

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peevee1
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Re: yes, cheaper than CANON.....I shoot canon
In reply to 007peter, May 29, 2012

007peter wrote:

thinwallet wrote:

Can someone explain how the $900 price can be justified? I have a Canon 85mm F1.8, excellent build quality, sharp wide open. It's slightly bigger than the olympus 75mm, 3"x2.8" vs 2.5" x 2.7". It only costs $400 and has more reach!

That is a stupid comparison. Canon 85mm f/1.8 isn't that great, this lens CA like CRAZY.

In the middle of the frame? Or mostly outside of a 4/3-sized sensor's area?

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Chez Wimpy
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Re: Yes, the 75mm and 12mm are both made in Japan.
In reply to fermy, May 29, 2012

fermy wrote:

Noone would switch to m4/3 because it has 75/1.8 for $900, no one would leave the system because such lens does not exist.

If the 75/1.8 were to offer something unique, it could persuade some people to switch to m43 system - even at $900. The reality is, it isn't fast enough to "shock and awe" (with anything BUT the price), equivalent lenses for APS-C are cheap and plentiful, and the comparative $900 FF FOV lenses (the 135L in particular) are nearly two stops faster. Two stops... and for a niche portrait lens length, that is life and death. If I want compact and cheap, I would go the 45/1.8, and if I want "at all costs," I would go 135L + 5D classic (a cheaper combo than the OMD and 75/1.8 FWIW). What the 75/1.8 offers is a compromise on DOF, a compromise in price, for a benefit in size. A niche. And I think they will sell in commensurate quantities.

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