Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World

Started May 25, 2012 | Discussions
chironNYC
Senior MemberPosts: 1,365
Like?
Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
May 25, 2012

In another thread, rwbaron wrote:

"I truly believe that reading DPR and a few other forums skews the mind compared to the real World. For example a few weeks back I visited the largest locally owned camera retailer in my area where I've known for years the guy that manages their pro and rental departments. This guy has been in the retail camera business his entire working life and has always been a Nikon fan. He currently owns a D300 but has easy access to anything in their rental fleet when it's available. We spoke at length about the 5D3 and D800 and I found his comments interesting.

"Let me start by saying he loves the D800 and thinks Nikon caught Canon off-guard with that release. He believes the 5D2 to be the most revolutionary game-changing DSLR ever and the 5D3 a further refinement of an excellent camera. When he wants to shoot FF he grabs the 5D2 from the rental department and whatever glass he needs. I mentioned that the D700 was also a great camera and he shook his head, smiled and said yes but it was a sales flop compared to the 5D2. He sees two different strategies at work here with Canon having a huge base looking to upgrade features and capabilities on a camera that most see as having incredible IQ. Nikon on the other hand is trying to grab market share in the segment (or maybe stop the bleeding) hence the D800 and it's pricing strategy. Both are excellent tools capable of incredible results in the right hands.

"I then brought up the low ISO shadow pattern noise on the 5D2 and he looked at me and said what are you talking about? I tried to explain and he kept shaking his head no and saying he's never heard of it and never had a complaint from anyone who's bought or rented the 5D2 from him. He's just one individual with one story but I do trust his insight on this considering his REAL WORLD experience. This is his life as he works with this stuff every day and has for decades. I mention this only to offer some perspective on the issue which has been promoted so heavily by a few zealots on this forum.

"Canon is selling cameras and pro's are buying and using them to make money and create incredible images everyday. If the market sees the 5D3 as overpriced due to an inferior sensor then my guess is Canon would have already adjusted pricing. We have to keep in mind that this is a gear forum and many pro and experienced shooters are too busy making money with or enjoying their gear to read the (many times) BS that is spewed on these forums as the final word. I'm not saying the D800 isn't a great camera with a great Sony sensor but I do believe some have a perspective on this sensor issue that is not rooted in reality.

"Does Canon need to improve in this area - yes. Will this hurt them in the shortrun - I doubt it as they're a huge company with a lot of inertia. If this trend continues for 3, 4 or 5 more years I would guess it could become more of a factor but Canon is not that stupid. My guess is they either have designs in progress or will partner with another supplier or a conbination of the two.

Bob"

Canon EOS 5D Mark II Canon EOS 5D Mark III Nikon D300 Nikon D700 Nikon D800
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
Sharon999
Junior MemberPosts: 34Gear list
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

"Does Canon need to improve in this area? - yes."

And that's the whole point.

S

 Sharon999's gear list:Sharon999's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 60D Nikon D800 Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sharon999
Junior MemberPosts: 34Gear list
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to Sharon999, May 25, 2012

And by the way...here's yet another thread about D800/5DIII created to deal with all of those Nikon posters that poor ChironNYC imagines.

S.

 Sharon999's gear list:Sharon999's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 60D Nikon D800 Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chironNYC
Senior MemberPosts: 1,365
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to Sharon999, May 25, 2012

Hello Sharon.

I am sorry to say that I do think you are a phony.

You have just recently joined and you post incessantly. You claim to own a 5d3, and every single post your write, without exception, is to praise the d800 and criticize the 5d3. You apparently have nothing else that you want to say.

So, I do think you are a fraud.

BTW, this is the last post of yours that I read or respond to. I am hitting the ignore button for you.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
PunkRock
Regular MemberPosts: 124Gear list
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

Hello Sharon.

I am sorry to say that I do think you are a phony.

You have just recently joined and you post incessantly. You claim to own a 5d3, and every single post your write, without exception, is to praise the d800 and criticize the 5d3. You apparently have nothing else that you want to say.

So, I do think you are a fraud.

BTW, this is the last post of yours that I read or respond to. I am hitting the ignore button for you.

Not sure if she is a fraud or not but I do agree with the rest of your post Chiron, she is annoying to say the least, same stuff every post, bla bla bla....
--
Meat=Murder

 PunkRock's gear list:PunkRock's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
amobi
Senior MemberPosts: 2,738
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to PunkRock, May 25, 2012

She is fraud and cheap. She claimed to have sold her wonderful D800 for dinner. Also, we are yet to see a single image from her. Talk is cheap.

PunkRock wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

Hello Sharon.

I am sorry to say that I do think you are a phony.

You have just recently joined and you post incessantly. You claim to own a 5d3, and every single post your write, without exception, is to praise the d800 and criticize the 5d3. You apparently have nothing else that you want to say.

So, I do think you are a fraud.

BTW, this is the last post of yours that I read or respond to. I am hitting the ignore button for you.

Not sure if she is a fraud or not but I do agree with the rest of your post Chiron, she is annoying to say the least, same stuff every post, bla bla bla....
--
Meat=Murder

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
GeoffreyH
Regular MemberPosts: 311
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

Yup. I've a guy that I go to (since the late 80's) — Had the same reaction when I mentioned the banding, "never heard of it". They don't pay much attention to DP forums. Said that the Mk III sells out the same day they get them. So good luck to those hoping that nobody buys them so maybe the price comes down. Said they had a couple of D800's come back because of bad shutters and that if you were to buy one you should wait 'til the bugs are worked out. Amazing stories of people where money is no object, told me about a guy who called up and ordered TWO $60,000 Hasselblads or other people who order M9's with a few lenses...

Yes. Interesting to talk with people in the industry to get more real-world information.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JackM
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,399Gear list
Like?
exactly.
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

In another thread, rwbaron wrote:

...

"I then brought up the low ISO shadow pattern noise on the 5D2 and he looked at me and said what are you talking about? I tried to explain and he kept shaking his head no and saying he's never heard of it and never had a complaint from anyone who's bought or rented the 5D2 from him. He's just one individual with one story but I do trust his insight on this considering his REAL WORLD experience. This is his life as he works with this stuff every day and has for decades. I mention this only to offer some perspective on the issue which has been promoted so heavily by a few zealots on this forum."

This is because unlike the pale-skinned losers on this forum, he knows how to expose. And, he probably prints his images too.

 JackM's gear list:JackM's gear list
Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.0 USM Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
expro
Contributing MemberPosts: 849Gear list
Like?
Re: exactly.
In reply to JackM, May 25, 2012

as you well know, it is NOT about correct exposure..but it is about a strange disposition for Nikon shooters to like artificially lifting shadows..and wanting noise free no shadow photos.... maybe they never go out in the sun or even know that contrast can add substantially to the feel of a photo... not everybody wants to check there is no black cat in the bush...

of course the reply will be... it's nice to have though when you do need it... and that may be right!

 expro's gear list:expro's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS-1D X Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 14mm f/2.8L II USM Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM +11 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tko
tko
Forum ProPosts: 10,038
Like?
see? see? I told you
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

All the D800 threads that people complain are about started by Canonites. Not Nikon owners. And here's another by a person that insists on pushing the D800 into the spotlight which every single post.

If you want fewer D800 threads in this forum, just look at yourself. Jeez. You guys are your own worst enemies.

Listen. I don't talk to by librarian about the best novels. I don't talk to my car mechanic about the best car. I don't talk to my local computer shop about the best processor. Not that the don't know their stuff or are stupid, but my needs might be far different from theirs.

At my 2000+ employee company we have a few time pro. After a few discussions with him I figured out we had nothing in common. No, he's very good at what he does - getting photos for the company as quickly and efficiently as possible - but what he does has nothing in common with what I'd like to do. His photos bore me to death - but they earn him a living.

So, when you talk about the real world, is it the real world of a guy who rents cameras out? The real world of a wedding photographer? The real world of a National Geographic photographer? Or the real world of a travel photographer out to have fun?

"I truly believe that reading DPR and a few other forums skews the mind compared to the real World.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
JackM
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,399Gear list
Like?
Re: exactly.
In reply to expro, May 25, 2012

expro wrote:

as you well know, it is NOT about correct exposure..but it is about a strange disposition for Nikon shooters to like artificially lifting shadows..and wanting noise free no shadow photos.... maybe they never go out in the sun or even know that contrast can add substantially to the feel of a photo... not everybody wants to check there is no black cat in the bush...

agreed.

of course the reply will be... it's nice to have though when you do need it... and that may be right!

almost 30,000 clicks on my 5D2 and this "issue" affected me precisely... once .

 JackM's gear list:JackM's gear list
Fujifilm X100S Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.0 USM Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS USM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tko
tko
Forum ProPosts: 10,038
Like?
Hey chironNYC
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

Do you own a Mark III? Have you posted any pictures from it? Last time I asked you didn't answer. Maybe it's time to fess up? 'Cause the only photo in your gallery is from a Sony.

Just saying . . .

chironNYC wrote:

Hello Sharon.

I am sorry to say that I do think you are a phony.

You have just recently joined and you post incessantly. You claim to own a 5d3, and every single post your write, without exception, is to praise the d800 and criticize the 5d3. You apparently have nothing else that you want to say.

So, I do think you are a fraud.

BTW, this is the last post of yours that I read or respond to. I am hitting the ignore button for you.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Maji
Contributing MemberPosts: 580Gear list
Like?
Re: see? see? I told you
In reply to tko, May 25, 2012

tko wrote:

So, when you talk about the real world, is it the real world of a guy who rents cameras out? The real world of a wedding photographer? The real world of a National Geographic photographer? Or the real world of a travel photographer out to have fun?

Very well said.

In terms of comparing cameras, I have to point out what was posted by diglloyd.
http://diglloyd.com/blog/2012/20120419_2-Canon5DM3-dxomark.html

This is a synopsis only and it is mainly a subscription based site, where people pay for his opinion. A lot of his subscribers are working pros who partly depend on Lloyd's comments to make purchasing decisions. It is not some I know this guy whose cousin knows that guy that shot 3 cameras for 39 days and said that 5Dm2 did not have any banding.

There are three takeaways from Lloyd's observations:

1. ... if I were cynical, I’d say that Canon is milking the market with a marginally better sensor than the 5DM2 at a much higher price.

2... the 5DM3 has a marginally better sensor than the 5DM2, and neither can hold a candle to the Nikon D800.

3. I shoot both systems, have extensive collections of lenses for both systems, and have done so for about 7 years now. I will continue to do so, and I will be buying the Canon 1D X, and probably the 5DM3, since that’s what I have to (also) cover here on this site. And also because Canon will be very bothered by the current Nikon coup in the mid-range DSLR space.

 Maji's gear list:Maji's gear list
Nikon Coolpix P500 Nikon D300 Nikon D800 Nikon 1 V2 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sharon999
Junior MemberPosts: 34Gear list
Like?
Re: Hey chironNYC
In reply to tko, May 25, 2012

tko wrote:

Do you own a Mark III? Have you posted any pictures from it? Last time I asked you didn't answer. Maybe it's time to fess up? 'Cause the only photo in your gallery is from a Sony.

Just saying . . .

chironNYC wrote:

Hello Sharon.

I am sorry to say that I do think you are a phony.

You have just recently joined and you post incessantly. You claim to own a 5d3, and every single post your write, without exception, is to praise the d800 and criticize the 5d3. You apparently have nothing else that you want to say.

So, I do think you are a fraud.

BTW, this is the last post of yours that I read or respond to. I am hitting the ignore button for you.

No, I would NEVER post an image here and NEVER post a link to my company website. In fact, due to people like ChironNYC the only way to post here is to keep any professional identity hidden. Call me a fraud until you turn blue, fellas, but I do own a 5DIII (with a second on the way) and I'm perfectly happy with it. Sorry that this does not gel with your need to create threads like this.

S.

 Sharon999's gear list:Sharon999's gear list
Canon PowerShot S95 Canon EOS 7D Canon EOS 60D Nikon D800 Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
gdanmitchell
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,730
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

I almost didn't read all the way through this, but I'm glad I did.

It is a fine and important post. Some of the participants in photography forums - I refer to them as forumtographers - live in a strange dream land that seems far removed from actual photography . They seem to regard "photography" as a thing focused on debating which thing will have the most impressive spec in some often meaningless and pathetic manner, or on a competition to own things that they believe they can call "best." Some of them - and we've all met these folks - are primarily interested in "playing photographer," in the form of acquiring the tools that they believe signify "real photographer" to those who might see them.

An unfortunate number seem wholly uninterested in photography itself or in the point of photography, namely photographs . This astonishes me. It is roughly the equivalent of being tremendously interested in the sharpness of knife blades, the weight of onions, or the volumes of cooking pots - but completely unable to actually cook or, much less, enjoy eating a fine meal. They imagine that it actually matters in some significant way whether a person chooses to shoot a Nikon or a Canon system, and they sometime want to pursue such things with a single-minded passion that rivals that found among the proponents of some religions.

The summary in the second paragraph is great. Basically, the fellow is acknowledging that Nikon and Canon both make really great gear that will do anything that a person might reasonably ask such gear to do; that each manufacturer has some models of greater or lesser success; that each probably pursues a slightly different marketing strategy in light of their current situation; that fine photographers produce fine work with both; and so forth.

The fellow's response to the "noise banding" business is a wonderful illustration. Anyone who has been around these forums for a while knows how hot that issue can be. (In fact, I'm betting that it will be almost impossible for some folks to resist the urge to redirect this entire thread to another impassioned debate about "noise banding" that will go on for many pages. Let's see if I'm right...) But, regardless of where you stand on the question of whether it exists or whether it is a real problem, the fact that a person who works in the world of real photographers and real photographs hasn't really heard about it is significant. The same thing could be said about the whole D800 versus 5D3 "debate" - basically you have two really fine camera with different design strengths and weaknesses, either of which can be used by excellent photographers to produce truly wonderful photographs. How about extending this to the moral wars over "primes versus zooms?" An on. And on. And on...

One can hopefully imagine a world in which forumtographers find a way to become as passionate about photography and photographs as they are about arguing gear trivialities.*

Dan

To head off the inevitable "come back," I most certainly regard understanding photographic equipment and mastering its use to be intrinsically important to photography... just not the primary focus of the activity.

chironNYC wrote:

In another thread, rwbaron wrote:

"I truly believe that reading DPR and a few other forums skews the mind compared to the real World. For example a few weeks back I visited the largest locally owned camera retailer in my area where I've known for years the guy that manages their pro and rental departments. This guy has been in the retail camera business his entire working life and has always been a Nikon fan. He currently owns a D300 but has easy access to anything in their rental fleet when it's available. We spoke at length about the 5D3 and D800 and I found his comments interesting.

"Let me start by saying he loves the D800 and thinks Nikon caught Canon off-guard with that release. He believes the 5D2 to be the most revolutionary game-changing DSLR ever and the 5D3 a further refinement of an excellent camera. When he wants to shoot FF he grabs the 5D2 from the rental department and whatever glass he needs. I mentioned that the D700 was also a great camera and he shook his head, smiled and said yes but it was a sales flop compared to the 5D2. He sees two different strategies at work here with Canon having a huge base looking to upgrade features and capabilities on a camera that most see as having incredible IQ. Nikon on the other hand is trying to grab market share in the segment (or maybe stop the bleeding) hence the D800 and it's pricing strategy. Both are excellent tools capable of incredible results in the right hands.

"I then brought up the low ISO shadow pattern noise on the 5D2 and he looked at me and said what are you talking about? I tried to explain and he kept shaking his head no and saying he's never heard of it and never had a complaint from anyone who's bought or rented the 5D2 from him. He's just one individual with one story but I do trust his insight on this considering his REAL WORLD experience. This is his life as he works with this stuff every day and has for decades. I mention this only to offer some perspective on the issue which has been promoted so heavily by a few zealots on this forum...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chironNYC
Senior MemberPosts: 1,365
Like?
Re: Hey chironNYC
In reply to tko, May 25, 2012

Actually, I did answer you in a longish post about a lot of things and that was not written in a polemical fashion.

I am not interested in the kinds of responses that images from me would draw on DPR. There are other sites to post pictures on where the discussion is more about images and also less angry. But I don't post much--that is not what my photography is about for me. I now own a 5d3 and a Nex 7 and a lot of lenses for each, including a lot of L glass. There is only one picture in my gallery which was a good-spirited participation in a funny TGIF thread about cats. It is a Nex snapshot that I do like untouched by PP. The Nex 7 with a Tamron 18-200 lens is a very nice combo for casual shooting. APS-C sized sensor, but otherwise excellent. I haven't done any of its images larger than 5X7 prints.

In any case, there is nothing about me that I want to prove to you.

tko wrote:

Do you own a Mark III? Have you posted any pictures from it? Last time I asked you didn't answer. Maybe it's time to fess up? 'Cause the only photo in your gallery is from a Sony.

Just saying . . .

chironNYC wrote:

Hello Sharon.

I am sorry to say that I do think you are a phony.

You have just recently joined and you post incessantly. You claim to own a 5d3, and every single post your write, without exception, is to praise the d800 and criticize the 5d3. You apparently have nothing else that you want to say.

So, I do think you are a fraud.

BTW, this is the last post of yours that I read or respond to. I am hitting the ignore button for you.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chironNYC
Senior MemberPosts: 1,365
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to gdanmitchell, May 25, 2012

Nice post yourself (though I am sure you count me among the forutographers).

I did think that rwbaron's post, buried in another thread, was worth more people reading and discussing.

gdanmitchell wrote:
I almost didn't read all the way through this, but I'm glad I did.

It is a fine and important post. Some of the participants in photography forums - I refer to them as forumtographers - live in a strange dream land that seems far removed from actual photography . They seem to regard "photography" as a thing focused on debating which thing will have the most impressive spec in some often meaningless and pathetic manner, or on a competition to own things that they believe they can call "best." Some of them - and we've all met these folks - are primarily interested in "playing photographer," in the form of acquiring the tools that they believe signify "real photographer" to those who might see them.

An unfortunate number seem wholly uninterested in photography itself or in the point of photography, namely photographs . This astonishes me. It is roughly the equivalent of being tremendously interested in the sharpness of knife blades, the weight of onions, or the volumes of cooking pots - but completely unable to actually cook or, much less, enjoy eating a fine meal. They imagine that it actually matters in some significant way whether a person chooses to shoot a Nikon or a Canon system, and they sometime want to pursue such things with a single-minded passion that rivals that found among the proponents of some religions.

The summary in the second paragraph is great. Basically, the fellow is acknowledging that Nikon and Canon both make really great gear that will do anything that a person might reasonably ask such gear to do; that each manufacturer has some models of greater or lesser success; that each probably pursues a slightly different marketing strategy in light of their current situation; that fine photographers produce fine work with both; and so forth.

The fellow's response to the "noise banding" business is a wonderful illustration. Anyone who has been around these forums for a while knows how hot that issue can be. (In fact, I'm betting that it will be almost impossible for some folks to resist the urge to redirect this entire thread to another impassioned debate about "noise banding" that will go on for many pages. Let's see if I'm right...) But, regardless of where you stand on the question of whether it exists or whether it is a real problem, the fact that a person who works in the world of real photographers and real photographs hasn't really heard about it is significant. The same thing could be said about the whole D800 versus 5D3 "debate" - basically you have two really fine camera with different design strengths and weaknesses, either of which can be used by excellent photographers to produce truly wonderful photographs. How about extending this to the moral wars over "primes versus zooms?" An on. And on. And on...

One can hopefully imagine a world in which forumtographers find a way to become as passionate about photography and photographs as they are about arguing gear trivialities.*

Dan

To head off the inevitable "come back," I most certainly regard understanding photographic equipment and mastering its use to be intrinsically important to photography... just not the primary focus of the activity.

chironNYC wrote:

In another thread, rwbaron wrote:

"I truly believe that reading DPR and a few other forums skews the mind compared to the real World. For example a few weeks back I visited the largest locally owned camera retailer in my area where I've known for years the guy that manages their pro and rental departments. This guy has been in the retail camera business his entire working life and has always been a Nikon fan. He currently owns a D300 but has easy access to anything in their rental fleet when it's available. We spoke at length about the 5D3 and D800 and I found his comments interesting.

"Let me start by saying he loves the D800 and thinks Nikon caught Canon off-guard with that release. He believes the 5D2 to be the most revolutionary game-changing DSLR ever and the 5D3 a further refinement of an excellent camera. When he wants to shoot FF he grabs the 5D2 from the rental department and whatever glass he needs. I mentioned that the D700 was also a great camera and he shook his head, smiled and said yes but it was a sales flop compared to the 5D2. He sees two different strategies at work here with Canon having a huge base looking to upgrade features and capabilities on a camera that most see as having incredible IQ. Nikon on the other hand is trying to grab market share in the segment (or maybe stop the bleeding) hence the D800 and it's pricing strategy. Both are excellent tools capable of incredible results in the right hands.

"I then brought up the low ISO shadow pattern noise on the 5D2 and he looked at me and said what are you talking about? I tried to explain and he kept shaking his head no and saying he's never heard of it and never had a complaint from anyone who's bought or rented the 5D2 from him. He's just one individual with one story but I do trust his insight on this considering his REAL WORLD experience. This is his life as he works with this stuff every day and has for decades. I mention this only to offer some perspective on the issue which has been promoted so heavily by a few zealots on this forum...

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
mountainphoto
New MemberPosts: 5
Like?
Re: Interesting Post: DPR and the Real World
In reply to gdanmitchell, May 25, 2012

Thank you gdanmitchell for an awesome post. You hit the nail on the head with your response and I for one appreciate it!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
David Hull
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,330Gear list
Like?
Re: Hey chironNYC
In reply to chironNYC, May 25, 2012

There are other sites to post pictures on where the discussion is more about images and also less angry.

Can you list a few of these?
--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26158506@N07/

 David Hull's gear list:David Hull's gear list
Canon EOS 50D Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
PunkRock
Regular MemberPosts: 124Gear list
Like?
Re: Hey chironNYC
In reply to David Hull, May 25, 2012

David Hull wrote:

There are other sites to post pictures on where the discussion is more about images and also less angry.

Can you list a few of these?
--
Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/26158506@N07/

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=27

Most sites I use are friendly, this is prob the most peculiar photography forum I know of.
--
Meat=Murder

 PunkRock's gear list:PunkRock's gear list
Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EF 15mm f/2.8 Fisheye Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM Canon EF 135mm f/2.0L USM Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads