How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?

Started May 25, 2012 | Discussions
Nippondenso
Regular MemberPosts: 367
Like?
How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
May 25, 2012

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage. I'm amazed at how many people buy and test the camera for only one day and then return it. Surely not enough time to make a true determination. Are people really having AF issues or are they using it as an excuse to make a return without having to pay a restocking fee? I'm very suspicious of all these claimed AF issues. Why is it so hard to admit the camera isn't for you and move on instead of making up tales? Of course there are people that do have a legitimate problem, and that is expected. My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

Nikon D800
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
harold1968
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,687Gear list
Like?
99.99%
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

On the basis that onleom about 40 people have complained here (most of them are keeping anyway) and nikon has sold 1000s

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage. I'm amazed at how many people buy and test the camera for only one day and then return it. Surely not enough time to make a true determination. Are people really having AF issues or are they using it as an excuse to make a return without having to pay a restocking fee? I'm very suspicious of all these claimed AF issues. Why is it so hard to admit the camera isn't for you and move on instead of making up tales? Of course there are people that do have a legitimate problem, and that is expected. My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

-- hide signature --
 harold1968's gear list:harold1968's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS30 Sony RX1R Olympus E-M1 Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 35mm F2.8 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nippondenso
Regular MemberPosts: 367
Like?
Re: 99.99%
In reply to harold1968, May 25, 2012

harold1968 wrote:

On the basis that only 30 people have complained here and thy have sold 1000s

That's a great keeper ratio. Does that mean there really isn't QC problems with the D800 and these AF "issues" are imaginary or simply fabricated? Of course I am not ruling out poor technique.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dominique Dierick
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,467Gear list
Like?
Issues are real, but maybe less widespread
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

In the meantime they have hit the market in Belgium in reasonable numbers, and I heard of one having the left AF problem for sure (another case was on a forum, but I don't know the background nor the photographer). A friend of mine, using his cameras professionally got hit by the problem. He last week asked the authorized repair center if it was a general problem and if they had many returns. It was the first they got in for a focus issue he was told. So, maybe one in hundred, two hundred? Who knows, seems random problem.

-- hide signature --

Nikon NPS member
D3s/D800/450D-IR/60Da/LX5

 Dominique Dierick's gear list:Dominique Dierick's gear list
Fujifilm X100S
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
harold1968
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,687Gear list
Like?
Re: 99.99%
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

I have no doubt that some people are having real issues with the left AF points

but it seems that most aren't, or don't care

remember that people post in forums mainly to complain
those having fun just shoot

Nippondenso wrote:

harold1968 wrote:

On the basis that only 40 people have complained here and thy have sold 1000s

That's a great keeper ratio. Does that mean there really isn't QC problems with the D800 and these AF "issues" are imaginary or simply fabricated? Of course I am not ruling out poor technique.

-- hide signature --
 harold1968's gear list:harold1968's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS30 Sony RX1R Olympus E-M1 Sony Alpha 7 Sony FE 35mm F2.8 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nippondenso
Regular MemberPosts: 367
Like?
Re: 99.99%
In reply to harold1968, May 25, 2012

harold1968 wrote:

I have no doubt that some people are having real issues with the left AF points

but it seems that most aren't, or don't care

remember that people post in forums mainly to complain
those having fun just shoot

Good points. Definitely worth factoring in.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
ne beginner
Senior MemberPosts: 1,941Gear list
Like?
Seems to be more examples of bad copies reported here than ...
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

... On other forums. Based on the growing number of comments and pictures posted on other sites as more of these get into the market, and the almost dead silence of AF complaints out there, I'd say the AF issue being reported on DP review is in reality small. Also not hearing of this issue on the D4, which shares the same AF module. This would have been picked up on and reported in the professional reviews well, which is what happened with the 1D MkIII, you may recall.

Which may explain why Nikon has made no public statement on this issue. That would create a fire where none exists. Not saying there are not bad copies out there, but Nikon would probably prefer to fix these quietly. There are always going to be bad copies, and any new model can have a QC error. I suspect the AF issue reported here is some kind of odd error that slips through QC.

My guess is that because this is more of a gear forum, there are more people here that would find and report a problem, because these folks tend to more detailed testing on their gear. Less technical people (like me) might not realize they have a problem, depending in what they shoot (for example some people don't use outer AF's).

Another consideration is that in at least some of the cases reported here, other factors may be involved. Nikon has pro-actively put put a booklet on using the D800 because of the high MP's. They have also put out statements and examples regarding how to test their AF points. The D800 will reveal glass calibration issues that may not have been too evident on other bodies (I have that one).

If this issue was significant, like the light leak issue on the 5D MkIII, or the 1D MkIII AF issue a few years back, Nikon would do like Canon and take a pro-active stance.

 ne beginner's gear list:ne beginner's gear list
Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 28mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-85mm F3.5-4.5G ED VR
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Arretose
Senior MemberPosts: 1,048
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

It was pretty apparent to me on the multiple bodies I tested to see that the D800's had faulty left AF points. It is not hard to replicate the problem if u have a faulty D800. People are complaining about getting their D800 back from Nikon Service unfixed. This is just my experience, however, I assure you that the least of my concerns was a restocking fee. It was more about getting stuck with a camera that I didn't feel worked the way it is supposed to. Remember, as a consumer we have the right to defective free merchandise, that is why a return policy is law in the US.
--
Chris
http://www.flickr.com/photos/crossphotography/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
chris maytag
Regular MemberPosts: 264
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people
keeping the camera are probably less than 40%.

Nobody, looking at some internet forum site, can infer to even the remotest degree of accuracy at all how many E owners are keeping their cameras.

My E is fine, and I am keeping it, and I suspect that the vast, vast majority of people who own one will do so, too. I don't think there's a mysteriously high return rate, but reading this forum for "several weeks" might give one that impression. The internet is an echo chamber.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
alabaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,402Gear list
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage. I'm amazed at how many people buy and test the camera for only one day and then return it. Surely not enough time to make a true determination. Are people really having AF issues or are they using it as an excuse to make a return without having to pay a restocking fee? I'm very suspicious of all these claimed AF issues. Why is it so hard to admit the camera isn't for you and move on instead of making up tales? Of course there are people that do have a legitimate problem, and that is expected.

That’s the wrong question. You should be asking: “How many people are testing there D800’s to see if it can achieve accurate focus on the important left AF point that you put over a model’s eye when in portrait orientation”?

When a person actually goes looking for this problem, because they appreciate sharp images, they might indeed find it. Many D800 buyers are finding that they cannot get this pesky left AF to work properly. To you that may be hard to understand, either because you don’t have a D800, or you got a good one. Congratulations on either count.

So you see it’s not about whether you think Nikon can do no wrong, or whether you were lucky enough to get a body that had no faults, it’s about people testing their equipment and reporting to this community on what their experience is. So what you need to do is stop judging anyone who has a fault with their camera. It’s really rather immature just gloating over how good you are to have avoided this issue.

My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

Well it's not really all about your 'feelings' is it. From my readings of this forum, any number of seemingly well informed, and well intentioned photographers have reported and posted problems regarding this issue. Your feelings on the Powerball odds have no relationship to the observed postings.
--
Geoff B
http://www.gbphoto.com.au/

 alabaster's gear list:alabaster's gear list
Nikon D800 Olympus E-M1 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
alabaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,402Gear list
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to chris maytag, May 25, 2012

chris maytag wrote:

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people
keeping the camera are probably less than 40%.

Nobody, looking at some internet forum site, can infer to even the remotest degree of accuracy at all how many E owners are keeping their cameras.

My E is fine, and I am keeping it, and I suspect that the vast, vast majority of people who own one will do so, too. I don't think there's a mysteriously high return rate, but reading this forum for "several weeks" might give one that impression. The internet is an echo chamber.

The echo I'm hearing is all those folks that can't believe anyone might be having a problem. It goes like this:

Version 1: "I'm alright Jack, what are you complaining about. My camera's fine".

Version 2: "There are a few dolts out there that don't know how to focus a $3,000 camera. Only I know how to that because I'm such a hero".

So you see the echo can sound pretty boring over here as well.
--
Geoff B
http://www.gbphoto.com.au/

 alabaster's gear list:alabaster's gear list
Nikon D800 Olympus E-M1 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
D800
Regular MemberPosts: 199
Like?
Re: 99.99%
In reply to harold1968, May 25, 2012

40? You must be in denial or don't know how to count properly as 40 is the maximum number that you can count up to.

I have tried 3 different cameras, all of them had severe left AF issue. Some had 4 bodies with the same issue. An extreme level, 8 exchanges exhibited the same AF issue reported in Martin's blog:

"First off, I’d like to start by mentioning that my D800 is one of the many camera showing massive back focus problems with the outer left AF sensors, and to a slightly lesser degree the sensors on the right also. Forums are populated with complaints regarding this problem seen in both D800 and D4 cameras, and it seems that the number of out-of-spec cameras are unprecedentedly high. So much so, that getting a unit exchanged will very likely land you with another faulty unit. It’s deeply disappointing, and it seems that Nikon do not have an official explanation, nor the inclination to treat the situation appropriately. From those that have had their cameras exchanged, there are some that went through between 3 and 8 exchanges, exhibiting the exact same issue . This covers early batches and late batches, from serial numbers 3000 (USA), 6000 (EU), and 8000 (Asia/Africa). Nikon South Africa are looking into this issue for me, but it seems that measures to assure me of an upcoming fix are a bit lax. With them claiming of never hearing of this issue, it leaves me with little trust to get honest feedback of the progress. This can mean two things; Nikon, the size that it is, and with the countless returns and repairs that have been sent in the world over, are clearly are aware of the issue but have chosen to be quiet and deny everything. The other side of the coin is, Nikon has no clue, which I find hard to believe." - More here: http://martinzimelka.com/...log/Entries/2012/5/18_Week_two_with_the_D800.html

harold1968 wrote:

On the basis that onleom about 40 people have complained here (most of them are keeping anyway) and nikon has sold 1000s

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage. I'm amazed at how many people buy and test the camera for only one day and then return it. Surely not enough time to make a true determination. Are people really having AF issues or are they using it as an excuse to make a return without having to pay a restocking fee? I'm very suspicious of all these claimed AF issues. Why is it so hard to admit the camera isn't for you and move on instead of making up tales? Of course there are people that do have a legitimate problem, and that is expected. My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
alabaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,402Gear list
Like?
54.6% - official Reuters figures NT
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012
 alabaster's gear list:alabaster's gear list
Nikon D800 Olympus E-M1 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AlephNull
Contributing MemberPosts: 700Gear list
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to alabaster, May 25, 2012

alabaster wrote:

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage. I'm amazed at how many people buy and test the camera for only one day and then return it. Surely not enough time to make a true determination. Are people really having AF issues or are they using it as an excuse to make a return without having to pay a restocking fee? I'm very suspicious of all these claimed AF issues. Why is it so hard to admit the camera isn't for you and move on instead of making up tales? Of course there are people that do have a legitimate problem, and that is expected.

That’s the wrong question. You should be asking: “How many people are testing there D800’s to see if it can achieve accurate focus on the important left AF point that you put over a model’s eye when in portrait orientation”?

When a person actually goes looking for this problem, because they appreciate sharp images, they might indeed find it. Many D800 buyers are finding that they cannot get this pesky left AF to work properly. To you that may be hard to understand, either because you don’t have a D800, or you got a good one. Congratulations on either count.

So you see it’s not about whether you think Nikon can do no wrong, or whether you were lucky enough to get a body that had no faults, it’s about people testing their equipment and reporting to this community on what their experience is. So what you need to do is stop judging anyone who has a fault with their camera. It’s really rather immature just gloating over how good you are to have avoided this issue.

My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

Well it's not really all about your 'feelings' is it. From my readings of this forum, any number of seemingly well informed, and well intentioned photographers have reported and posted problems regarding this issue. Your feelings on the Powerball odds have no relationship to the observed postings.

left AF point over a model's eye in portrait? Odd. Maybe it's because I am accustomed to a camera with a grip on it, but I always rotate the camera so that the right AF points would be over the model's eye, not the left. I even do this when I don't have the grip on the camera (and yes, it's not particularly convenient without the grip :)).

 AlephNull's gear list:AlephNull's gear list
Sony RX100 II
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
alabaster
Senior MemberPosts: 1,402Gear list
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to AlephNull, May 25, 2012

AlephNull wrote:

left AF point over a model's eye in portrait? Odd. Maybe it's because I am accustomed to a camera with a grip on it, but I always rotate the camera so that the right AF points would be over the model's eye, not the left. I even do this when I don't have the grip on the camera (and yes, it's not particularly convenient without the grip :)).

If you are a right eye shooter and you turn your D800 so that the shutter release is next to your chin rather than above your head, then the left AF point is in the upper third of the viewfinder. Hard to imagine , but it's true.
--
Geoff B
http://www.gbphoto.com.au/

 alabaster's gear list:alabaster's gear list
Nikon D800 Olympus E-M1 +1 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
beshannon
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,203Gear list
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%.

Where are the numbers that you used to make this GUESS?

 beshannon's gear list:beshannon's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-ZS7 Sigma DP2s Nikon Coolpix AW100 Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
unknown member
(unknown member)
Like?
The problem is real, and the frequency is unknown
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

There is at least one D800E with focus problems both right and left, the left being more severe. That would be mine. I found out over the first couple of weeks in ordinary shooting and tested to confirm. I still have it, and I'm keeping it. I am waiting to have it repaired because the central focus area appears near perfect in testing, and I am having no "problem" avoiding the "problem" until it can be repaired at a time convenient to Nikon and convenient to me.

If someone is returning their E because they feel hurt or put out, it just means someone else is going to get a great deal on a refurbished E. A perfect circle, it seems. There is nothing else that compares to this camera. I'm convinced of that. It's great if you want a wall poster, and it's great if you just downsize to 2200 width because as you downsize the photos just get better and better. I've never seen anything like it, and if I gave mine up I would just have to go through the hassle of getting another. The hassle of repair is less, IMO.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Nippondenso
Regular MemberPosts: 367
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to alabaster, May 25, 2012

alabaster wrote:

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage. I'm amazed at how many people buy and test the camera for only one day and then return it. Surely not enough time to make a true determination. Are people really having AF issues or are they using it as an excuse to make a return without having to pay a restocking fee? I'm very suspicious of all these claimed AF issues. Why is it so hard to admit the camera isn't for you and move on instead of making up tales? Of course there are people that do have a legitimate problem, and that is expected.

That’s the wrong question. You should be asking: “How many people are testing there D800’s to see if it can achieve accurate focus on the important left AF point that you put over a model’s eye when in portrait orientation”?

When a person actually goes looking for this problem, because they appreciate sharp images, they might indeed find it. Many D800 buyers are finding that they cannot get this pesky left AF to work properly. To you that may be hard to understand, either because you don’t have a D800, or you got a good one. Congratulations on either count.

So you see it’s not about whether you think Nikon can do no wrong, or whether you were lucky enough to get a body that had no faults, it’s about people testing their equipment and reporting to this community on what their experience is. So what you need to do is stop judging anyone who has a fault with their camera. It’s really rather immature just gloating over how good you are to have avoided this issue.

My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

Well it's not really all about your 'feelings' is it. From my readings of this forum, any number of seemingly well informed, and well intentioned photographers have reported and posted problems regarding this issue. Your feelings on the Powerball odds have no relationship to the observed postings.
--
Geoff B
http://www.gbphoto.com.au/

I think you are missing the point, and it has been stressed here many times. If a user is getting good results with the D800 in real world shooting situations while would you think they have a problem if they go searching for one with some conveluted test that doesn't prove much of anything. The user is more apt to have misfocus issues due to poor technique or movement while they have paper thin DoF. From some of the posts I've been reading I can safely say most of these issues are from poor tecnique. Just my opinion.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
4x5 Guy
Contributing MemberPosts: 847
Like?
Re: How many people are actually keeping their D800(E)?
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

Nippondenso wrote:

After reading this forum for several weeks I can surmise the amount of people keeping the camera are probably less than 40%. That does seem like a dismal percentage.

It's very clear that you publish posts and start threads simply to provoke people in a negative way. You make absurd and ridiculous statements/claims. You pull "facts" and "numbers" out of your b*tt.

My feeling is having a defective D800 has higher odds than one winning the Powerball jackpot.

I know you're smart enough to know that this statement is completely stupid. You know darn well all the reasons it isn't even close to reality. As I said, you enjoy provoking people. You need some counseling.

BTW, I know who you really are.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
sfnikon
Senior MemberPosts: 1,934Gear list
Like?
Keeping mine
In reply to Nippondenso, May 25, 2012

Best image quality of any DSLR available today so why would I return it? I just got mine and the AF seems to be working fine.
--
Jake

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads