Why isnt the PL452.8 the reference lens for testing m43?

Started May 25, 2012 | Discussions
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Adventsam Veteran Member • Posts: 4,983
Why isnt the PL452.8 the reference lens for testing m43?

Does anybody find it kinda weird that the reference glass for m43 testing is a legacy 43 glass? I have nothing against the 50mm its a cracking glass, but still a native lens of the calibre of the PL452.8 is equal to the task, surely?

Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,465
Re: Why isnt the PL452.8 the reference lens for testing m43?

Adventsam wrote:

Why isnt the PL452.8 the reference lens for testing m43?

Perhaps you missed it, but Andy Westlake already answered that question the first time you asked it. Have a look here:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=41606195

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Steen Bay Veteran Member • Posts: 6,973
Re: Why isnt the PL452.8 the reference lens for testing m43?

Adventsam wrote:

Does anybody find it kinda weird that the reference glass for m43 testing is a legacy 43 glass? I have nothing against the 50mm its a cracking glass, but still a native lens of the calibre of the PL452.8 is equal to the task, surely?

Andy Westlake told/showed you why here :

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=41606195

Vaughan Williams Contributing Member • Posts: 741
Re: Why isnt the PL452.8 the reference lens for testing m43?

Adventsam wrote:

Does anybody find it kinda weird that the reference glass for m43 testing is a legacy 43 glass?

Absolutely not.

Whether or not the PL45 is as sharp (and I doubt it, and I own both), the Oly 50 is a true reference in that it's been used to test every single 4/3 and micro 4/3 body and so provides a constant reference point for all future bodies against previous bodies.

Your constant advancing of all things Panasonic against all things Olympus does you a great disservice - you were right about the great improvements of LR4 but very few people took any notice of you because nobody takes you seriously because of your partisanship.

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Adventsam OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,983
Re:OK I missed it.

Now I know DPR got a bad copy; Thanks.

Vaughan Williams wrote:

Adventsam wrote:

Does anybody find it kinda weird that the reference glass for m43 testing is a legacy 43 glass?

Absolutely not.

Whether or not the PL45 is as sharp (and I doubt it, and I own both), the Oly 50 is a true reference in that it's been used to test every single 4/3 and micro 4/3 body and so provides a constant reference point for all future bodies against previous bodies.

Your constant advancing of all things Panasonic against all things Olympus does you a great disservice - you were right about the great improvements of LR4 but very few people took any notice of you because nobody takes you seriously because of your partisanship.

Somebody has to be on Panasonic side, as this whole forum is so pro Olympus its embarrassing at times. I don't give a damm if people do or dont like what I say; I usually ask my questions in good spirit and generally they are received with good response. I am what I am and aint going to change. People generally don't like the truth, it hurts if it goes against there feelings.

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Ollie 2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,527
Re:OK I missed it.

"People generally don't like the truth,"

Since when is "fanboy delusion" a synonym for "truth"?

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,465
Re:OK I missed it.

Adventsam wrote:

Somebody has to be on Panasonic side, as this whole forum is so pro Olympus its embarrassing at times.

Have you ever considered being on neither side or on both?

I don't give a damm if people do or dont like what I say

Yes, this is noticeable.

I usually ask my questions in good spirit and generally they are received with good response.

You are getting fewer good responses than you used to. And this is understandable.

I am what I am and aint going to change.

That's a pity.

People generally don't like the truth, it hurts if it goes against there feelings.

It's a mistake to generalize your own personality to others. I want to know the truth even if it hurts at times. Not so sure about you.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 23,670
Why they use 50mm

Just check SLRGear's tests for both lenses and see that the 50/2 is the closest to a perfect lens. That's why it's the best thing to use for checking bodies.

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/zproducts/leica25f14dg/tloader.htm
http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/zproducts/olympus50f2/tloader.htm

Regards.......... Guy

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,465
Re: Why they use 50mm

Guy Parsons wrote:

Just check SLRGear's tests for both lenses and see that the 50/2 is the closest to a perfect lens. That's why it's the best thing to use for checking bodies.

http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/zproducts/leica25f14dg/tloader.htm
http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/zproducts/olympus50f2/tloader.htm

Guy,

The lens Adventsam suggested they use is the 45/2.8 macro (which SLRGear hasn't tested), not the 25/1.4. However, DPR themselves have tested both the 50/2 and the 45/2.8, and, the outcome of that contest is what Andy Westlake referred in order to motivate their preference for the 50/2.

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 23,670
Re: Why they use 50mm

Trawling through DPReview lens tests I found the reason why in text.....

The 45mm performs pretty well in our studio tests. It can't match the stratospheric standard set by the Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm F2 Macro (few lenses can), but it's decently sharp and has minimal distortion.

That's in http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_45_2p8_o20/3

I'm happy with both Olympus and Panasonic gear that I use so no real fanboy bias in my case. I do own the Oly 50/2 but by the time the AF finds where to focus, the subject has lost interest and gone home, but it is a really good lens.

Regards....... Guy

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Adventsam OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,983
Re:OK I missed it.

Anders W wrote:

Adventsam wrote:

Somebody has to be on Panasonic side, as this whole forum is so pro Olympus its embarrassing at times.

Have you ever considered being on neither side or on both?

I prefer Panasonic iq and equipment to Olympus for many reasons.

I don't give a damm if people do or dont like what I say

Yes, this is noticeable.

I usually ask my questions in good spirit and generally they are received with good response.

You are getting fewer good responses than you used to. And this is understandable.

I have no issue with this.

I am what I am and aint going to change.

That's a pity.

You want me to change to pretend somehow?

People generally don't like the truth, it hurts if it goes against there feelings.

It's a mistake to generalize your own personality to others. I want to know the truth even if it hurts at times. Not so sure about you.

I think you are sure.

btw, back on topic, the 50mm macro tested on the e-3 body doesnt look so good? are we seeing sensor technology limiting these lens. The softness that dpr observed in the corners is a bit extreme as mostly the borders are sharp too, only extreme. Anyway, I still prefer the 45mm as its a native lens, adapters should be avoided for reference testing.

Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 23,670
Re: Why they use 50mm

Anders W wrote:

The lens Adventsam suggested they use is the 45/2.8 macro (which SLRGear hasn't tested), not the 25/1.4. However, DPR themselves have tested both the 50/2 and the 45/2.8, and, the outcome of that contest is what Andy Westlake referred in order to motivate their preference for the 50/2.

Oh hell, another brain spasm for today!

I had too many windows open and grabbed the wrong one. Sadly they didn't have a graph for the 45mm after I cleaned up my screen and clicked on the right test line - so we have to rely of the graphs of the DPReview tests which do show that the 45mm performance edge to edge is nowhere as good as the 50mm lens.

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_45_2p8_o20/3

http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/olympus_50_2_o20/3

Sorry again about my stupidity but it is in-built and hard to avoid.

Regards........... Guy

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Andy Westlake Senior Member • Posts: 2,928
Re:OK I missed it.

Adventsam wrote:

Now I know DPR got a bad copy; Thanks.

Another wonderful example of your view on the world. As it happens we tested two copies, both provided directly by Panasonic - this was (fractionally) the better of them, but overall performance was very consistent between the two.

The test results do not imply the Panasonic 45/2 is a bad lens, BTW. They simply confirm our long-standing opinion that the Olympus ZD 50mm F2 Macro is optically superb, and a benchmark optic that shows the quality of the Micro Four Thirds cameras from both Olympus and Panasonic in the best possible light.

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Andy Westlake
dpreview.com

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Tim in upstate NY
Tim in upstate NY Veteran Member • Posts: 7,120
And furthermore . .

Andy Westlake wrote:

Adventsam wrote:

Now I know DPR got a bad copy; Thanks.

Another wonderful example of your view on the world. As it happens we tested two copies, both provided directly by Panasonic - this was (fractionally) the better of them.

The test results do not imply the Panasonic 45/2 is a bad lens, BTW. They simply confirm our long-standing opinion that the Olympus ZD 50mm F2 Macro is optically superb, and a benchmark optic that shows the quality of the Micro Four Thirds cameras from both Olympus and Panasonic in the best possible light.

. . . You already provided the test data to Sam in another thread to show him why you use the 50/2 and it hasn't had any effect at all on his stubborn little crusade.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=41606195

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Adventsam OP Veteran Member • Posts: 4,983
Re: Why they use 50mm

Guy,

The 50mm is a super lens, but I do struggle with the concept of using a lens designed for 43 and an adapter for reference testing on m43. I know people will say it doesnt matter, but for the most part few will use the 43 lens on m43 bodies.

Guy Parsons wrote:

Trawling through DPReview lens tests I found the reason why in text.....

The 45mm performs pretty well in our studio tests. It can't match the stratospheric standard set by the Olympus Zuiko Digital ED 50mm F2 Macro (few lenses can), but it's decently sharp and has minimal distortion.

That's in http://www.dpreview.com/lensreviews/panasonic_45_2p8_o20/3

I'm happy with both Olympus and Panasonic gear that I use so no real fanboy bias in my case. I do own the Oly 50/2 but by the time the AF finds where to focus, the subject has lost interest and gone home, but it is a really good lens.

Regards....... Guy

Ollie 2 Senior Member • Posts: 1,527
Re:OK I missed it.

Andy Westlake wrote:

They simply confirm our long-standing opinion that the Olympus ZD 50mm F2 Macro is optically superb, and a benchmark optic that shows the quality of the Micro Four Thirds cameras from both Olympus and Panasonic in the best possible light.

There you go again, Andy, displaying your blatant bias.

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D200_4me Veteran Member • Posts: 3,872
I like the Olympus 45mm f/1.8

It's reasonably sharp in this shot...(viewed at 100%)

http://bit.ly/JPNygP

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Guy Parsons
Guy Parsons Forum Pro • Posts: 23,670
Re: Why they use 50mm

Adventsam wrote:

Guy,

The 50mm is a super lens, but I do struggle with the concept of using a lens designed for 43 and an adapter for reference testing on m43. I know people will say it doesnt matter, but for the most part few will use the 43 lens on m43 bodies.

The 50mm is a good lens but best used as a manual focus lens on M4/3 to avoid the frustration of the slow AF.

On the other hand my 4/3 11-22mm lens does perform AF acceptably fast (for me) so is a good lens for M4/3. I do have the 4/3 14-54 Mk1 lens and that is painfully slow AF but others say the Mk2 version of that lens does focus acceptably fast.

There is absolutely no problem with using a 4/3 lens for testing body resolution etc on M4/3 as the appropriate Oly or Pan adapter provides the correct distance to sensor. It's just that the AF may be slow, painfully slow or non-existent according to the lens-body combination chosen.

I notice that in the period that DPReview was testing the Olympus 50/2 lens they used a Panasonic 4/3 body as that body had the best resolution. I wonder if the Oly fanboys were raving on about that travesty in the same way that you are now raving about the reverse situation.

Regards........ Guy

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,465
Re:OK I missed it.

Adventsam wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Adventsam wrote:

Somebody has to be on Panasonic side, as this whole forum is so pro Olympus its embarrassing at times.

Have you ever considered being on neither side or on both?

I prefer Panasonic iq and equipment to Olympus for many reasons.

Yes we know that you prefer Panasonic although the reasons are not always crystal clear. Personally I prefer this or that piece of equipment (of whatever brand) for this or that substantive reason. Have you ever tried this approach to the world? If not, you should. Very refreshing.

I am what I am and aint going to change.

That's a pity.

You want me to change to pretend somehow?

No. I want you to be open to the possibility that you might change rather than being a closed system. Personally, I don't know in advance whether I will change or not. It depends on the information I encounter. Have you ever tried this approach to the world? If not, you should. Very refreshing.

I think you are sure.

Sure that I want to know the truth, yes.

btw, back on topic, the 50mm macro tested on the e-3 body doesnt look so good? are we seeing sensor technology limiting these lens. The softness that dpr observed in the corners is a bit extreme as mostly the borders are sharp too, only extreme.

Hmm. E-3? As far as I can see, DPR tested the 50 macro on the (presumably excellent) Panasonic L10.

Anyway, I still prefer the 45mm as its a native lens, adapters should be avoided for reference testing.

And the reason for that would in this case be?

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Anders W Forum Pro • Posts: 21,465
Re: Why they use 50mm

Guy Parsons wrote:

Anders W wrote:

The lens Adventsam suggested they use is the 45/2.8 macro (which SLRGear hasn't tested), not the 25/1.4. However, DPR themselves have tested both the 50/2 and the 45/2.8, and, the outcome of that contest is what Andy Westlake referred in order to motivate their preference for the 50/2.

Oh hell, another brain spasm for today!

Happens to all of us from time to time. My turn next. Please keep that in mind.

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