A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash

Started May 23, 2012 | Discussions
Skip M
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Re: Hate flash. Never want an onboard flash.
In reply to Eliezer Garcia, May 24, 2012

Eliezer Garcia wrote:

GaryJP wrote:

I don't even ever use flash on my point and shoots or my iPhone. The single best thing most people can do for their photography is disable the flash.

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Mmmmm. I agree with you because non flash pics are more natural and rich but the onboard flash of the 7D works wonderfuly as a fill flash when you have portraits against the light (when you travel or when you are against the light in front of a monument or an important natural backdrop), besides, the flash in the 7D triggers other Canon out of camera flashes remotely!!!! it is a transmitter. This was copied by Nikon in the D800 camera and it is fantastic. i personally would love to see a full frame camera with an onboard flash like the 7D...

Ummm...Nikon didn't copy that from Canon, it's vice versa, Nikon has had this feature in their cameras for several years.
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chiane
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to cyk, May 24, 2012

Any time someone says a camera is missing something, you get a bunch of boobs chiming in on how they don't care because they never use it. So what if you personally never use it. Some people don't use the LCD screen, should they just then remove it from the camera all together? A.) No, it doesn't make you a better photographer, B.) Canon shouldn't make the choice for you.

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bgbs
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to jvkelley, May 24, 2012

That is basically the whole reason behind on-board flash; to use it as remote trigger. Having on-board flash does not subtract anything from the body, it is so small and unnoticeable, that some photogs I worked with didn't even know they've had it all along.

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Skip M
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to chiane, May 24, 2012

chiane wrote:

Any time someone says a camera is missing something, you get a bunch of boobs chiming in on how they don't care because they never use it. So what if you personally never use it. Some people don't use the LCD screen, should they just then remove it from the camera all together? A.) No, it doesn't make you a better photographer, B.) Canon shouldn't make the choice for you.

The discussion was "Is the fact that it's missing a problem" not "Should Canon have included it." Different argument entirely. The OP made the statement that it was a "con" that's not mentioned in reviews, particularly that of DPR. That it's not missed by a large number of users of the camera would argue that it's not a "con." Its lack is not a "plus" either. It just is. If the inablility of the user to link the spot meter to the focus point isn't a "con," then this certainly isn't.

By your logic, all cameras should have built in flashes, even if it compromises the performance of said camera, including the D4 and 1DX.
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Skip M
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Re: True
In reply to bgbs, May 24, 2012

bgbs wrote:

The on-board flash argument is the same as video on a DSLR. Some photographers want it and some don't. Both video and on-board flash is there, if you don't want to use it, you just don't use it.

Not exactly. Lack of video would be considered a "con" given that all competitive cameras include this feature, and there is no alternative with this hypothetical video crippled camera. If you need to shoot video, you can't. There's no way to mount an after-the-thought video feature to the camera. If you need to shoot in the dark with your not-hypothetical-built-in-flash camera, you have shoe mounted flashes available. You just have to have the forethought to have taken it with you. Which a great many serious photographers have managed to do for decades.
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bgbs
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Sure it is a con
In reply to Skip M, May 24, 2012

When one compares 1DX to 5D3 and sees it only shoots 6fps, then 5D3 becomes a con. But what some people on this thread essentially say is "5D3 shoots only at 6fps and I like it that way, it is the sweet spot shooting speed for me, I don't want 1DX because it shoots at 14fps and it is too much for me, I don't like it and I don't want it". This is backwards thinking in terms of Pros and Cons. When you are saying that you don't like one camera because it has Feature A., and you like the other camera because it does not have Feature A., that is absurd.

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Skip M
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Guys, guys, guys...
In reply to Philz, May 24, 2012

I'm going to give everybody the benefit of the doubt and presume that all the respondents here are serious photographers. So here's my question...how many of you have, really, honestly grabbed their 5D series camera to go on vacation or out for an evening with friends and somehow, some way not thought to grab a flash to go with it? The pro built in flash crowd calls the anti group things like "boobs" and "snobs" and tell them that they're grasping at straws for excuses not to include it on a camera. But, other than triggering off camera flashes, the reasons for actually having it are just as tenuous as any of the counter arguments. C'mon, at least be thoughtful in responses (which, I've noticed, the OP hasn't contributed a single one beyond the one that started this free-for-all).
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qianp2k
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to Philz, May 24, 2012

I virtually never use my 60D built-in flash that is only better than nothing. I used to carry 580EX II or 430EX II in traveling. Just bought a 270EX II a few weeks ago to take advantage of special price from Adoroma and going to use in my future traveling. It's small and light but still way better than built-in flash.

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bgbs
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Re: Guys, guys, guys...
In reply to Skip M, May 24, 2012

The biggest advantage of on-board flash is to trigger remotely, it works wonders. The second is to use it as fill flash. I had couple of situations where I relied on it because I chose to travel very light. I would put a napkin over the flash to diffuse it, and it works wonders. It's pretty handy once you humbly acknowledge that it can server as a benefit. Surely you will not get world famous photos out of popup flash, but not using it at all by relying on available light will not give you better results either. It helps to have popup flash in unexpected situations. Now, if you don't have those unexpected situations, then you probably don't need it. The good thing about it, is that it is so small that if you keep it closed you will never know it is there.

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cyk
cyk
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to qianp2k, May 24, 2012

Nobody is going to argue with what you said. They are all true. But will having an on-board flash inconvenience you in any way? I cannot imagine how.

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Apewithacamera
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Drivers license, passport, police station mugshot photos = popup flash photography nt
In reply to bgbs, May 24, 2012

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thelensmeister
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to cyk, May 24, 2012

I would hate for the beautiful solid hump to be replaced with a pop up flash! That is so ridiculous. For me it's a PRO not a CON.

All photo moms know that pop up flash should not be used once you've mastered P mode. Missy MWAC will back me up on this. In fact lets have the debate over on the MWAC page as well..

cyk wrote:

Nobody is going to argue with what you said. They are all true. But will having an on-board flash inconvenience you in any way? I cannot imagine how.

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commiebiker
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to thelensmeister, May 24, 2012

has the Canon pop up flash ever had the ability to be used as a commander? It is very useful and saves a couple hundred bucks and allows you to travel without an extra piece of gear....maybe Canon users just don't know what they are missing?

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Skip M
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Re: Guys, guys, guys...
In reply to bgbs, May 24, 2012

bgbs wrote:

The biggest advantage of on-board flash is to trigger remotely, it works wonders. The second is to use it as fill flash. I had couple of situations where I relied on it because I chose to travel very light. I would put a napkin over the flash to diffuse it, and it works wonders. It's pretty handy once you humbly acknowledge that it can server as a benefit. Surely you will not get world famous photos out of popup flash, but not using it at all by relying on available light will not give you better results either. It helps to have popup flash in unexpected situations. Now, if you don't have those unexpected situations, then you probably don't need it. The good thing about it, is that it is so small that if you keep it closed you will never know it is there.

See,this is exactly what I'm talking about. Do you only have one camera? Then, ok, it's a given that you'll only take the camera you have, which in this case, lacks a pop up flash. But, "very light?" How much weight does a flash add? A 430EXII weighs in at just over 11 ounces (325 grams for you other guys), a 580 EXII add just over 13 ounces to your bag weight. Both of them give you far more control than a pop up, should never leave your bag and aren't blocked by WA lenses. It's not a valid reason to be caught without a flash.

On the other hand, if you have more than one camera, take the one with the pop up flash, I'm sure it weighs less than the 5D, anyway.
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bgbs
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Re: True
In reply to Skip M, May 24, 2012

Exactly same arguments for and against video feature on DSLRs have been made, and continue so. Plenty of folks have cried out against it because they perceived it to be as nothing more than a gimmick and a useless feature...etc. "Get real video cam" they said, kind of like some are saying to get a real flash gun. Some went even as far as to say that the video implementation took away the focus from more important DSLR RD developments. One can argue that because of the video on my camera, my camera has suffered from agronomics due to additional buttons, menus, and ports , which all bloated the camera, made it heavier, and bulkier.

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bgbs
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Re: Guys, guys, guys...
In reply to Skip M, May 24, 2012

Do you know how much tangling bulkiness a hot shoe flash adds to a DSLR, especially when you walk around? Traveling very light does not mean in LBs, it means all this stuff around you that make traveling uncomfortable.

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Philz
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Re: A missing Con in the Canon 5d III's review: absence of an onboard flash
In reply to Skip M, May 24, 2012

I have a 7D and a 17-55 (and a few nice primes which I rarely use). My camera is neither professional nor point and shoot. And it has an onboard flash which I find very useful. For me it is already heavy and cumbersome as it is (the 17-55 is always on it) and I don't need a contraption on it just to be able to get some otherwise impossible shots. I am not a pro. Someone at Canon decided that the 5D III was more in pro category than the 7D and that it therefore didn't need a flash. But others at Nikon for exactly the same market segment decided otherwise. So, is the target percentage of pros among 5D III owners higher than the same percentage among D800 owners? And is the percentage of pros using this class of cameras material anyway? I might be wrong but I don't expect the percentage of pros in this class of cameras to be much higher than than in the 7D. When I bump into a pro he (rarely a she) typically has a much more expensive body anyway, and sometimes a few of them. Oh well, peace.

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roanjohnnyc
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Re: Agree 100%
In reply to Skip M, May 24, 2012

You are missing the point. External flash is so bulky and awkward! Plus you have to keep charging those NiMh batteries, which in itself is an extra thing to pack! That is why I have to always carry a m4/3 camera on vacation..... but wish I could do everything with a 5D. Granted, I would gladly let-go of the on-board flash if the 5DI and II (dont' know about III) is waterproof - but it is not.

.............and used properly with the correct technique, fill-flash (both for sunny and dark situations) can give beautiful results! At least better than one without.

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Skip M
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Re: Guys, guys, guys...
In reply to bgbs, May 24, 2012

bgbs wrote:

Do you know how much tangling bulkiness a hot shoe flash adds to a DSLR, especially when you walk around? Traveling very light does not mean in LBs, it means all this stuff around you that make traveling uncomfortable.

Really? You really ask that question? Don't you think I've used that combination? And don't you think I walk around with it?? When I "travel light," that means I take the flash bracket, off camera shoe cord, battery pack and power cord off. Cripes, I know what it's like to have a flash banging around on your hip, and I also know the inadequacies of an on camera flash and its inability to get what I need to be gotten.

Right now I've packed for a dog show. 60D, 430EX flash, 28-135 f3.5-5.6 IS and a 50 f1.8. Notice, that while I have a camera with a pop up flash, I'm still taking my on camera flash because I know that, at some point, it's gong to be needed. The worst shot I ever got in my life was the one I didn't get...
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roanjohnnyc
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Show of hands, would you return/not buy the 5DmkIII..
In reply to ScottieC, May 24, 2012

............if it came with on-board flash?

Thought so!

I'm a Canon user but Nikon got this one right! And the cherry on top is being able to trigger remote flashes!

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