Frame backing paper/material question

Started May 22, 2012 | Discussions
Hugowolf
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Frame backing paper/material question
May 22, 2012

I have been using black and brown acid free craft paper for backing, but thought I would try a small roll of black Tyvek which claimed greater longevity, tear and puncture resistance. Well it may last longer but it isn’t much more tear or puncture resistant.

Are there any other materials suitable for sealing the back of frames?

Brian A

RGBCMYK
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to Hugowolf, May 24, 2012

Will tyveck allow the frame to breath? Not sure you want th form an airtight environment. I have backed images with a roll of single ply cotton rag but never sealed the back of a wooden frame with it.
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Hugowolf
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to RGBCMYK, May 24, 2012

RGBCMYK wrote:

Will tyveck allow the frame to breath? Not sure you want th form an airtight environment. I have backed images with a roll of single ply cotton rag but never sealed the back of a wooden frame with it.

Why would you want the frame to breath?

The black Tyvek is sold specifically as an alternative to the standard acid free black and brown craft/kraft paper used for sealing the back. The idea is to reduce the effects of changes in humidity and it also helps prevent small insects and dust from getting in. None of the materials used are impermeable, including the blue Lineco backing paper.

Brian A

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AusPic
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to Hugowolf, May 25, 2012

Even a frame (timber ) will absorb moisture and wick it in behind the glass, takes time but once in there can cause havoc (mould) if it cant get out. The environmental temp/ moisture is more of an issue thats why Museum/ Galleries are so paranoid about it.
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Andrew G

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Hugowolf
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to AusPic, May 25, 2012

AusPic wrote:

Even a frame (timber ) will absorb moisture and wick it in behind the glass, takes time but once in there can cause havoc (mould) if it cant get out.

So there is some magic valve system in the wood so that moisture can get in but not out?

The environmental temp/ moisture is more of an issue thats why Museum/ Galleries are so paranoid about it.

The paper barrier act to modify changes (suppress/flatten large fluctuations) in humidity. If, for example, the floor of the room was mopped there would be a subsequent rise the humidity for a short period. Or, if the air-conditioning were to go down for a few hours.

However, my primary reason for using backing paper is to protect against dust and insects.

Brian A

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RGBCMYK
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to Hugowolf, May 26, 2012

I posted the question about breathing from experience and question what is being framed. Back when I was mounting traditional b/w and color photographs that were printed on RC coated paper it was very important not to use seal MT-5 and use color mount so not to encapsulate the rear of the print and allow it to breath through the rag board. I have examples of where this has caused a big problem. The area on the reverse of the mounted print is colored and damaged on the rag board. This didn't start to show until 10 years after the mount. I see the creation of a encapsulated environment a major problem. I bet ink jet prints off gas for quite some time and the aging process evolves this too over time and personally wouldnt do it until I saw testes archival data how to do this correctly if it is found beneficial.
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Hugowolf
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to RGBCMYK, May 26, 2012

RGBCMYK wrote:

I posted the question about breathing from experience and question what is being framed. Back when I was mounting traditional b/w and color photographs that were printed on RC coated paper it was very important not to use seal MT-5

MT-5, what is this?

and use color mount so not to encapsulate the rear of the print and allow it to breath through the rag board. I have examples of where this has caused a big problem. The area on the reverse of the mounted print is colored and damaged on the rag board. This didn't start to show until 10 years after the mount. I see the creation of a encapsulated environment a major problem. I bet ink jet prints off gas for quite some time and the aging process evolves this too over time and personally wouldnt do it until I saw testes archival data how to do this correctly if it is found beneficial.

Well I hope you don’t need to see my testes.

and personally wouldnt do it until I saw … it is found beneficial.

Or, the inverse would be equally true. I wouldn’t want to see framing without backing paper until I saw data suggesting otherwise.

I wasn’t looking for advice on whether to use backing paper or not, but just to find out if there were better backing paper alternatives than what I was using.

Brian A

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RGBCMYK
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to Hugowolf, May 26, 2012

I wasn't questioning the use or benefit of a backing paper, I was questioning the encapsulaziation of your artwork that might need to off gas / air exchange. I wonder if the tyveck is air permeable on a molecular level?. MT-5 is a Seal (Benfang) heat mounting tissue designed for porous artwork and only for artwork that can breath through the art because it couldn't breath through the non porous heat activated tissue. Where MT-5 had a problem was when used with a Resin coated paper trapping off gassing in between the art and the non breathable mounting tissue. This product is still used today ( I think Benfang purchased the company) and would work with most Matt inkjet paper but I see an issue with any of the coated luster or some coated gloss papers. Accelerated archival testing doesn't always equal real world testing either. I was involved with two different b/w products that the accelerated test proved incorrect and the manufacture actually had to pull all the product off the shelf and conduct a real test for a year before reurning the product for sale. It would be really interesting to know the true makeup of some of the inkjet papers and inks we use today. Just one of the products I used contained titanimun dioxide to enhance the white paper base and it was found to actually created ozone on a moluclear level causing silvering on the surface of some b/w silver based paper. Things can happen over time and protecting art is paramount.
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landscaper1
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Air Permeability of Tyvek
In reply to RGBCMYK, May 26, 2012

I can tell you that tyvek is used to create a vapor barrier in home construction, on one hand, and in environmental coveralls to protect the wearer from hazardous materials because it allows the passage of air to prevent overheating.

It may be there are different forms of tyvek. Have you googled it to see what its manufacturer says?
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AusPic
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to Hugowolf, May 26, 2012

Yes! there is a valve system of sorts, a natural one made of air spaces between the fibres, even in the best framing timbers used. Moisture can wick in SLOWLY, and is retained and slowly increases in density, as the fibres swell, the exit wicking is slowed further. IF your situation is one that is vulnerable to moisture slowing its exit further with a good seal all around the back could, I say 'could' add to your woes.

I live on a dusty farm road, so if someone offers you a good solution for dust I will be making note of that. Have 50+ prints on our walls and have not had to deal with bugs yet, thank goodness
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Andrew G

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RGBCMYK
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to AusPic, May 29, 2012

I just found this. It looks like the perfect backing. What glue would you use to attach it?

Black Tyvek® has these key characteristics that make it the best quality picture frame backing paper available:
Tear resistant
Dust resistant
Water resistant
Mold and mildew resistant
Breathable
Smooth and paper-like
Acid free
pH neutral (pH = 7)

All of these attributes combine to provide a durable barrier to protect your artwork or framed photos from the backside of the frame and their surroundings.

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Hugowolf
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to RGBCMYK, May 29, 2012

RGBCMYK wrote:

I just found this. It looks like the perfect backing. What glue would you use to attach it?

This is the material that I am looking to replace. This is what I had mentioned in the OP. It is fine, but hardly better than black or brown acid free kraft paper.

I use the same system that everyone else uses: 3M acid free with an adhesive tape gun (ATG). I think formally it is known as 3m 908 Acid Free Gold ATG.

Black Tyvek® has these key characteristics that make it the best quality picture frame backing paper available:
Tear resistant
Dust resistant
Water resistant
Mold and mildew resistant
Breathable
Smooth and paper-like
Acid free
pH neutral (pH = 7)

All of these attributes combine to provide a durable barrier to protect your artwork or framed photos from the backside of the frame and their surroundings.

It tears as easily as paper.

Brian A

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RGBCMYK
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to Hugowolf, May 30, 2012

It tears? The tyveck that I had a painters suit made out of couldn't tear if I tried? The USPS tyveck can't tear. Maybe there is different grades?
http://www.christopherbroughton.com

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Hugowolf
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Re: Frame backing paper/material question
In reply to RGBCMYK, May 30, 2012

RGBCMYK wrote:

It tears? The tyveck that I had a painters suit made out of couldn't tear if I tried? The USPS tyveck can't tear. Maybe there is different grades?

Tyvek isn’t a substance, it is a trade name used by Dupont for non-woven fabric-like papers. They make different things, one of them being a backing paper, and it is quite different from the paper used for their envelopes.

Brian A

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