Why do people think....

Started May 14, 2012 | Discussions
SteveJL
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

I love my DSLR and expensive glass and the photos I get. I'm OK with you not wanting one. Good luck with your search. If you want me, I'll be out shooting

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Mako2011
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bigger problem
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

If all companies only produce interchangable lens cameras then it is inevitable.....they have never done that before and the numbers suggest they will not in the future. It would seem that your logic would make the coming end of the Maya calendar a bigger problem

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JulesJ
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

We are offered choice my companies with their products and you don't like it. How sad is that? Would you like no choice when you next choose your car, cooker, fridge, meal, travel solution etc etc?
Jules

brianj wrote:

and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't. What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

Canon got close with the G1X, but its just a bit too big.

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from. Well I'm not buying that deal.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Brian

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tkbslc
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Re: ALL in a belt bag???
In reply to Ubilam, May 14, 2012

Ubilam wrote:

You don't speak for me as a photographer and you basically are a lazy ass.

He said "Average Person" not angry photo enthusiast....

Sometimes to get a great photo you do need to carry around some heavy
glass and actually look through a viewfinder.

And often you don't

My Sigma Bigma 50-500 would prob cause you a mental breakdown if you even held it.

Wow, you are really strong. I am impressed

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phaedin
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to JulesJ, May 14, 2012

I can understand where the OP is coming from.

I am someone who is just getting in to changing setting to try to get better shots that what get when on Auto mode. And taking some shots at night.

I am not convinced that I am ready to move up to a DSLR, but i want something that takes good quality shots. I am not sure i am serious enough to fully take advantage of a DSLR, but have just enough knowledge to not be satisfied with auto settings in difficult situations, and i like having the convenience of not having to change lenses

The Camera i am debating about getting (X-S1) seems to fit all my needs (i have a concern about image quality because of the smaller sensor in low and difficult light situations) but the price is about the same as an entry level DSLR (i am leaning towards the A-57) with a kit lens, so for a few hundred more i can get it with a longer lens and have a good zoom range (not as good as the XS-1) with very few concerns about image quality

I am running around in circles with this

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Ed Rizk
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Re: Sensor dust
In reply to Christoph Stephan, May 14, 2012

Christoph Stephan wrote:

jrtrent wrote:

The industry/market seems to have a mania for focal length changes. It doesn't seem all that long ago when most casual photography hobbyists were using a variety of folding cameras, box cameras, TLR's, rangefinders and even SLR's with just a normal lens attached. I wonder how many people might get better pictures with just one focal length to use and master instead of a zoom ring with infinite possibilities.

Infinite possibilities are good. Unless you can fly, you will never get a picture of a bird in flight without a long lens. If you need a picture of a building on a narrow street, or one with a lot of ugly signs and obstacles in the way, you have to stand close and use a wide angle lens. If all your pictures are just art for art's sake, I guess you could use any lens and just take a picture of something else if a subject's position was not suitable for your lens. Some of us need or want pictures of specific things that are not always positioned on the earth for a shot with a 50mm lens.

I would think the ability to shoot without any cost implication brought a great increase in quantity at the expense of quality. People more carefully composed when they had to buy film, and the number of shots were limited. On the other hand, "costless" shooting and instant check-up of the results makes it easier to systematically improve your technique and to learn by trial and error

My film pics were never half as good as my digital ones. The ability to see over or under exposure, to see that you cut the top of a roof off while you are on site with the same light, the ability to see noise or bad focus, all make it easier to get much better pictures, not just more of them.

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beshannon
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

Why do people think and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't.

Some people do, if you do not, then do not buy one.

Simple

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Skipper494
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

I like my Pan FZ35, but a bigger sensor would be nice. However, then the lenses get too large and heavy and very expensive, which is why the manufacturers give you a choice of relatively cheap lenses, e.g the Nikon 50 f/1.8 for about $150.

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MisterBG
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Re: Equipment envy
In reply to LensBeginner, May 14, 2012

LensBeginner wrote:

The industry/market seems to have a mania for focal length changes.

I think there's also a psychological reason.

When you change lens you alter your pov, and have the impression that you can change the world around you (in fact, you simply change the way you see it).

Please expalin how changing your lens (by which I presume you mean focal length) changes your point of view?

There is only one thing that changes your point of view and that is if you physically move position.
The focal length of the lens has nothing to do with it.
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Draek
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses,

Market research, sales figures.

I certainly don't.

Then you're outside the norm. No biggie, most of us are so in at least one market.

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from. Well I'm not buying that deal.

Well, no. They push it because it sells better. Remember how many companies tried to avoid building interchangeable-lens mirrorless cameras out of concerns of putting their own SLR lines in danger? they certainly weren't in any rush to push people towards that format, yet it still happened.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Given your comment about the G1X being too large, yeah, it is. The Samsung EX1 has a 1/1.7" sensor with a lens starting out at 24mm and see how large it is, even though its lens is only 72mm at telephoto; extending that to 240mm would make it far larger and into something approaching the Canon SX40 in size, most likely.

Besides, what do you want a 1/1.7" sensor for, anyways? I can understand it for the high-quality optics of the EX1 or the Olympus XZ-1, but if you're sticking a 10x 24-240mm zoom in front of it you might as well get a 1/2.3" camera and enjoy the size and weight benefits.
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brianj
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to JulesJ, May 14, 2012

JulesJ wrote:

We are offered choice my companies with their products and you don't like it. How sad is that? Would you like no choice when you next choose your car, cooker, fridge, meal, travel solution etc etc?
Jules

There has always been choice and there always will, but if the myriad of choices don't contain the the ones you need then you are without choice in a sea of choice.

On another note, there is so much choice today in everything we do that a person can get bogged down. Of the various machines I own, I would only use a mere fraction of the possibilities, so when talking about cameras in particular, I would much rather see an AUTO mode that actually worked perfectly, than all the useless choices that we have today that make you spend hours fiddling to try to optimise your images.

Brian

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brianj
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to Draek, May 14, 2012

Draek wrote:

brianj wrote:

and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses,

Market research, sales figures.

I certainly don't.

Then you're outside the norm. No biggie, most of us are so in at least one market.

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from. Well I'm not buying that deal.

Well, no. They push it because it sells better. Remember how many companies tried to avoid building interchangeable-lens mirrorless cameras out of concerns of putting their own SLR lines in danger? they certainly weren't in any rush to push people towards that format, yet it still happened.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Given your comment about the G1X being too large, yeah, it is. The Samsung EX1 has a 1/1.7" sensor with a lens starting out at 24mm and see how large it is, even though its lens is only 72mm at telephoto; extending that to 240mm would make it far larger and into something approaching the Canon SX40 in size, most likely.

Besides, what do you want a 1/1.7" sensor for, anyways? I can understand it for the high-quality optics of the EX1 or the Olympus XZ-1, but if you're sticking a 10x 24-240mm zoom in front of it you might as well get a 1/2.3" camera and enjoy the size and weight benefits.
--

I agree, and have been checking out the SX240HS, it has more zoom than I need but I can ignore that, and its very small size is what I really want.

Brian

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Henry Falkner
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 15, 2012

I agree with you, except you will not get a 1:1,7 image sensor in a pocket P&S.

I have compromised on the Olympus SZ-30MR 24x zoom pocket P&S. It is unobtrusive at the radio club and during dance and music performances, and it is not in the way while doing chores for Sandra.

She in turn feels I am a glorified hobbyist, so if I don't choose my gear accordingly, I never get to do ANY photography.

Then again, when Sandra was not in my life I was invisible, and so was the photography and all the other stuff I was doing. Now, the videos and stills I do on my Olympus SZ-30MR get gigs for us City of Auckland Morris Dancers (who I am playing the accordion for as the camera taes the videos).

Henry

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tko
tko
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In reply to brianj, May 15, 2012

Your right, that doesn't sound like a pleasure at all, let alone fun.

Imagine that. Working to get good results and taking pride in what you do.

Why run when you can drive a car? Why play the violin when you can play MP3's? Why paint when you can photograph? Why photograph when you can Google an image?

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brianj
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In reply to tko, May 15, 2012

tko wrote:

Your right, that doesn't sound like a pleasure at all, let alone fun.

Imagine that. Working to get good results and taking pride in what you do.

Why run when you can drive a car? Why play the violin when you can play MP3's? Why paint when you can photograph? Why photograph when you can Google an image?

Makes you wonder doesn't it?

Brian

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T3
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In reply to brianj, May 15, 2012

First of all, you're not everyone. Plenty of people want interchangeable lenses.

Secondly, would it kill you to move up from a belt bag? Just get a compact shoulder bag. You look like a nerd if you wear a belt bag anyways. Do you also where socks with sandals and shorts? LOL.

brianj wrote:

and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't. What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

Canon got close with the G1X, but its just a bit too big.

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from. Well I'm not buying that deal.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Brian

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brianj
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Re: you aren't everyone
In reply to T3, May 15, 2012

T3 wrote:

First of all, you're not everyone. Plenty of people want interchangeable lenses.

Secondly, would it kill you to move up from a belt bag? Just get a compact shoulder bag. You look like a nerd if you wear a belt bag anyways. Do you also where socks with sandals and shorts? LOL.

No, I'm Australian, we wouldn't be seen dead in that getup.

I don't mean one of those bumbags, I have a dedicated cameras bag like this which isn't particularly nerdy, not that there is anything wrong with that!

I would like to get my full kit even smaller than this which I am finding difficult while maintaining some degree of IQ, but I am willing to compromise.

Brian

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JulesJ
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 15, 2012

brianj wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

We are offered choice my companies with their products and you don't like it. How sad is that? Would you like no choice when you next choose your car, cooker, fridge, meal, travel solution etc etc?
Jules

There has always been choice and there always will, but if the myriad of choices don't contain the the ones you need then you are without choice in a sea of choice.

On another note, there is so much choice today in everything we do that a person can get bogged down. Of the various machines I own, I would only use a mere fraction of the possibilities, so when talking about cameras in particular, I would much rather see an AUTO mode that actually worked perfectly, than all the useless choices that we have today that make you spend hours fiddling to try to optimise your images.

Brian

You might like that, but if there was an Auto mode that worked perfectly then there would be no need for anything else. By definition there isn't and never will be an auto mode that can work for all lighting and focusing eventuallities.

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snake_b
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to beshannon, May 15, 2012

There's more to it than that with this poster.

He's started multiple flame wars in his crusade to have manufacturers remove RAW output as a choice for everyone and has said as much that RAW output is for arrogant people.

He says this despite the fact that he takes his jpegs and posts processes them , but claims he doesn't want to spend the time to process the RAW output. He believes it will take significantly longer to process a straight RAW than a jpeg.

So he spends more time making jpeg scene mode settings on his cam (I own one of them, too) then post processing anyway, than he does taking a photo and post processing combined.

beshannon wrote:

brianj wrote:

Why do people think and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't.

Some people do, if you do not, then do not buy one.

Simple

The irony, brian, considering you want choices taken away from people. Moving away from RAW to now interchangeable lenses.

brianj wrote:

JulesJ wrote:

We are offered choice my companies with their products and you don't like it. How sad is that? Would you like no choice when you next choose your car, cooker, fridge, meal, travel solution etc etc?
Jules

There has always been choice and there always will, but if the myriad of choices don't contain the the ones you need then you are without choice in a sea of choice.

On another note, there is so much choice today in everything we do that a person can get bogged down. Of the various machines I own, I would only use a mere fraction of the possibilities, so when talking about cameras in particular, I would much rather see an AUTO mode that actually worked perfectly, than all the useless choices that we have today that make you spend hours fiddling to try to optimise your images.

Brian

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brianj
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to snake_b, May 15, 2012

snake_b wrote:

There's more to it than that with this poster.

He's started multiple flame wars in his crusade to have manufacturers remove RAW output as a choice for everyone and has said as much that RAW output is for arrogant people.

Don't be stupid snake, anyone who believed this rubbish you write would have to be as stupid as you are.

Brian

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