Why do people think....

Started May 14, 2012 | Discussions
brianj
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Why do people think....
May 14, 2012

and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't. What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

Canon got close with the G1X, but its just a bit too big.

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from. Well I'm not buying that deal.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Brian

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Ubilam
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ALL in a belt bag???
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

You don't speak for me as a photographer and you basically are a lazy ass.
Sometimes to get a great photo you do need to carry around some heavy
glass and actually look through a viewfinder.

My Sigma Bigma 50-500 would prob cause you a mental breakdown if you even held it.

What is going on folks?

brianj wrote:

and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't. What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

Canon got close with the G1X, but its just a bit too big.

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from. Well I'm not buying that deal.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Brian

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brianj
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Re: ALL in a belt bag???
In reply to Ubilam, May 14, 2012

Ubilam wrote:

You don't speak for me as a photographer and you basically are a lazy ass.
Sometimes to get a great photo you do need to carry around some heavy
glass and actually look through a viewfinder.

My Sigma Bigma 50-500 would prob cause you a mental breakdown if you even held it.

What is going on folks?

Your right, that doesn't sound like a pleasure at all, let alone fun.

Brian

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Deleted1929
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

Everybody wants something different. That's one reason.

Another is that larger sensors require large lenses - that's just the physics of it. So huge super-zooms on large sensors cameras are a problem in terms of weight and size unless you drastically compromise optics to the point where you may as well have a P&S with a small sensor. The solution to this dilemma is to use lenses covers smaller zoom ratios, but covering them with good optical quality.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Let's say someone makes exactly what you want. How many other people will buy it ? Because they're not going to break into profit based on just you.

You may think everyone would queue up for what you describe, but I promise you that everyone has different priorities.

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Mako2011
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Your facts are wrong
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

Why do people think....and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses..... What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

The companies that sell/provide/manufacture the most cameras concentrate more on models without interchangeable lens. Nokia...Apple...Samsung...Motorola....LG...etc

The interchangeable lens cameras you're thinking of are a specialty item and more of a niche market.

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brianj
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to Deleted1929, May 14, 2012

sjgcit wrote:
Everybody wants something different. That's one reason.

Another is that larger sensors require large lenses - that's just the physics of it. So huge super-zooms on large sensors cameras are a problem in terms of weight and size unless you drastically compromise optics to the point where you may as well have a P&S with a small sensor. The solution to this dilemma is to use lenses covers smaller zoom ratios, but covering them with good optical quality.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Let's say someone makes exactly what you want. How many other people will buy it ? Because they're not going to break into profit based on just you.

You may think everyone would queue up for what you describe, but I promise you that everyone has different priorities.

Even I don't think people will line up for what I described, I guess that is what my frustration is really about. I had this feeling there may be more non professional people out there who want to stick to simplicity but if there is they have certainly gone silent.

Brian

Brian

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brianj
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Re: Your facts are wrong
In reply to Mako2011, May 14, 2012

Mako2011 wrote:

brianj wrote:

Why do people think....and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses..... What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

The companies that sell/provide/manufacture the most cameras concentrate more on models without interchangeable lens. Nokia...Apple...Samsung...Motorola....LG...etc

The interchangeable lens cameras you're thinking of are a specialty item and more of a niche market.

There have been rumours that even samsung may have a change of direction and make less pocket cameras, no doubt the others will follow the money as well.

Brian

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ScottyNV
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Re: Your facts are wrong
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

Mako2011 wrote:

brianj wrote:

Why do people think....and apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses..... What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag.

The companies that sell/provide/manufacture the most cameras concentrate more on models without interchangeable lens. Nokia...Apple...Samsung...Motorola....LG...etc

The interchangeable lens cameras you're thinking of are a specialty item and more of a niche market.

There have been rumours that even samsung may have a change of direction and make less pocket cameras, no doubt the others will follow the money as well.

Brian

Fewer different models, perhaps, but they will continue to pump out non-interchangeable-lens (compact) cameras by the millions. The other poster is correct in that the interchangeable lens cameras (dSLR and MILC) are the specialty items... but they get the press coverage because they are large and visible (for the most part - Sony NEX are pretty small)

Also, the majority of the cameras by the companies you mention Nokia, Apple, etc... are bundled in with the phones, tablets/ipads, monitors... when was the last time you saw an "Apple" standalone camera? 1990?

ALL companies chase the money and market where they can make the most of it the easiest and with the least expense. People buy many, many more phones than standalone cameras, especially in the developing world, where cellular/moblie phone service is much easier and cheaper for the providers to build than wireline service.

S.
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Ubilam
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Re: ALL in a belt bag???
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

Ubilam wrote:

You don't speak for me as a photographer and you basically are a lazy ass.
Sometimes to get a great photo you do need to carry around some heavy
glass and actually look through a viewfinder.

My Sigma Bigma 50-500 would prob cause you a mental breakdown if you even held it.

What is going on folks?

Your right, that doesn't sound like a pleasure at all, let alone fun.

You are wrong, Brian. It is fun when using camera gear to 'nail' a photo.

Sometimes the P&S camera-iPhone method is weak as hell. Maybe you would know if you were really into photography?

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Mako2011
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

sjgcit wrote:
Everybody wants something different. That's one reason.

Another is that larger sensors require large lenses - that's just the physics of it. So huge super-zooms on large sensors cameras are a problem in terms of weight and size unless you drastically compromise optics to the point where you may as well have a P&S with a small sensor. The solution to this dilemma is to use lenses covers smaller zoom ratios, but covering them with good optical quality.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Let's say someone makes exactly what you want. How many other people will buy it ? Because they're not going to break into profit based on just you.

You may think everyone would queue up for what you describe, but I promise you that everyone has different priorities.

Even I don't think people will line up for what I described, I guess that is what my frustration is really about. I had this feeling there may be more non professional people out there who want to stick to simplicity but if there is they have certainly gone silent.

How can you say that. They line up in mass at the apple store when a new iPhone is released and smart phones are everywhere. Your in the majority.

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brianj
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to Mako2011, May 14, 2012

Mako2011 wrote:

brianj wrote:

sjgcit wrote:
Everybody wants something different. That's one reason.

Another is that larger sensors require large lenses - that's just the physics of it. So huge super-zooms on large sensors cameras are a problem in terms of weight and size unless you drastically compromise optics to the point where you may as well have a P&S with a small sensor. The solution to this dilemma is to use lenses covers smaller zoom ratios, but covering them with good optical quality.

I would like a small camera with a 1/1.7 BSI-CMOS sensor with no more than 16mp and about 24-240mm fixed lens. Is that too much to ask for from this season's new models.

Let's say someone makes exactly what you want. How many other people will buy it ? Because they're not going to break into profit based on just you.

You may think everyone would queue up for what you describe, but I promise you that everyone has different priorities.

Even I don't think people will line up for what I described, I guess that is what my frustration is really about. I had this feeling there may be more non professional people out there who want to stick to simplicity but if there is they have certainly gone silent.

How can you say that. They line up in mass at the apple store when a new iPhone is released and smart phones are everywhere. Your in the majority.

If I want the camera to take second place, and without any zoom, they are an extreme compromise and will be for a while yet. Maybe that will be the path forward in a few more generations of models.

Brian

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brianj
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Re: ALL in a belt bag???
In reply to Ubilam, May 14, 2012

Ubilam wrote:

brianj wrote:

Ubilam wrote:

You don't speak for me as a photographer and you basically are a lazy ass.
Sometimes to get a great photo you do need to carry around some heavy
glass and actually look through a viewfinder.

My Sigma Bigma 50-500 would prob cause you a mental breakdown if you even held it.

What is going on folks?

Your right, that doesn't sound like a pleasure at all, let alone fun.

You are wrong, Brian. It is fun when using camera gear to 'nail' a photo.

Sometimes the P&S camera-iPhone method is weak as hell. Maybe you would know if you were really into photography?

I never do anything obsessively, they can take over your life. But having said that, I have been doing digital photography since 2002 but I try to control how much I spend on it and I am not willing to increase the outlay of money.

Brian

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Mako2011
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What do you really want
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

brianj wrote:

If I want the camera to take second place, and without any zoom, they are an extreme compromise and will be for a while yet. Maybe that will be the path forward in a few more generations of models.

You said:

".... apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't. What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag."

The vast majority of all cameras made today meet your needs exactly and interchangeable lens cameras are in the great minority and rare in comparison. With that in mind, your concerned about a problem that does not exist. The real solution to the "problem" as you see it, is to pull out your P&S and not worry about the small number of people using equipment you're not interested in. The side benefit of that strategy is, you get to take pictures

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brianj
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Re: What do you really want
In reply to Mako2011, May 14, 2012

Mako2011 wrote:

brianj wrote:

If I want the camera to take second place, and without any zoom, they are an extreme compromise and will be for a while yet. Maybe that will be the path forward in a few more generations of models.

You said:

".... apparently camera companies as well that the average person wants interchangeable lenses, I certainly don't. What I want is the smallest package that meets my needs and preferably the entire kit can be carried in a belt bag."

The vast majority of all cameras made today meet your needs exactly and interchangeable lens cameras are in the great minority and rare in comparison. With that in mind, your concerned about a problem that does not exist. The real solution to the "problem" as you see it, is to pull out your P&S and not worry about the small number of people using equipment you're not interested in. The side benefit of that strategy is, you get to take pictures

That's where I am at right now, your spot on, but I want to be able to keep on this track by being able to buy another enthusiasts style camera in future, so far its unknown whether panasonic will produce a LX6, canon a S110, samsung an EX2 etc

When I am ready to buy again maybe because my camera breaks, there maybe nothing produced in this catagory. If all companies only produce interchangable lens cameras then it is inevitable for me to have to buy the future incarnation of a camera phone which I also don't want to do.

Maybe its still too early to know what will happen.

Brian

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LensBeginner
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Re: Why do people think....
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

My view is that the companies want to push us all to interchangeable lenses because that is where the followup money comes from.

I have a Pentax reflex and use almost exclusively old glass (I mean SMC-M from the 70s).

If I was to buy a mirrorless I would certainly buy an adapter (how much? 20$? 30$?) to use all that glass on that camera.
When I'll upgrade, I'll use all that glass again.
By using interchangeable lenses you can actually save money.

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MisterBG
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Equipment envy
In reply to LensBeginner, May 14, 2012

Maybe the OP would like (rather than need) an interchangeable lens camera, but is not willing to pay for it.

Having said that, I'd be curious as to the number of DSLR's that have been bought with a "Kit Lens" which has never been off the camera - quite a few, I'd venture to guess.

Travelling around London, I get the impression that the number of tourists using SLR's is at least equal, if not more than, the numbers using P&S models.

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jrtrent
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close enough
In reply to brianj, May 14, 2012

No one has ever designed a camera just for me, either, so sometimes we just have to take something that's close enough and enjoy it. I recently bought a Nikon P7100 (which seems close to what you're asking for). If they'd asked me, I would have been happier with a smaller screen just to navigate menus, a bigger and more accurate optical viewfinder, and a faster, non-zoom lens of normal focal length. But the P7100 at least has an optical viewfinder, and it can be programmed to always zoom to a 50mm equivalent setting at startup. It's not ideal, but it's still fun to take pictures with.

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jrtrent
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Re: Equipment envy
In reply to MisterBG, May 14, 2012

MisterBG wrote:

Maybe the OP would like (rather than need) an interchangeable lens camera, but is not willing to pay for it.

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Interchangeable lens cameras, except the Fuji GXR module system, will be more prone to sensor dust issues, which I found a real pain with a couple of the DSLR's I've owned. I've loved the SLR form factor for decades, but haven't found a digital version I enjoy shooting with. Operation is so compromised compared to the manual-focus film models I've enjoyed (and continue to enjoy in the form of a Contax 139Q--I never did buy an auto-focus film SLR) that I find them frustrating to use. I get more pleasure from a compact like the P7100.

Having said that, I'd be curious as to the number of DSLR's that have been bought with a "Kit Lens" which has never been off the camera - quite a few, I'd venture to guess.

The industry/market seems to have a mania for focal length changes. It doesn't seem all that long ago when most casual photography hobbyists were using a variety of folding cameras, box cameras, TLR's, rangefinders and even SLR's with just a normal lens attached. I wonder how many people might get better pictures with just one focal length to use and master instead of a zoom ring with infinite possibilities.

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LensBeginner
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Re: Equipment envy
In reply to jrtrent, May 14, 2012

The industry/market seems to have a mania for focal length changes.

I think there's also a psychological reason.

When you change lens you alter your pov, and have the impression that you can change the world around you (in fact, you simply change the way you see it).

Given the s* y economical/social/political phase we are all living in, I think that the wish is justified...

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Christoph Stephan
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Sensor dust
In reply to jrtrent, May 14, 2012

jrtrent wrote:

Perhaps, but I doubt it. Interchangeable lens cameras, except the Fuji GXR module system, will be more prone to sensor dust issues, which I found a real pain with a couple of the DSLR's I've owned.

Have you tried the newer models with automatic sensor cleaning? Dust was a major hassle spoiling the fun with my EOS 20D, and I upgraded to the EOS 40D (the foirst one of this line with sensor-cleaning) for that reason. And indeed, this upgrade largely solved the sensor dust issue...

...on the other hand, my EOS 20D is doing quite fine now as well. I wonder whether much of the dust was internal abrasion. It is now old and well "worn-in" and spotty skies are largely a thing of the past....

I've loved the SLR form factor for decades, but haven't found a digital version I enjoy shooting with. Operation is so compromised compared to the manual-focus film models I've enjoyed (and continue to enjoy in the form of a Contax 139Q--I never did buy an auto-focus film SLR) that I find them frustrating to use. I get more pleasure from a compact like the P7100.

I agree to some point, also enjoyed using my RICOH KR-10. Autofocus often has a mind of its own, and manual focus point selection is often more of a hassle than manual foccusing. For the latter, however, I miss the split screen. There are some to be manually installed but I wonder what trade-offs nthis does bring...

The industry/market seems to have a mania for focal length changes. It doesn't seem all that long ago when most casual photography hobbyists were using a variety of folding cameras, box cameras, TLR's, rangefinders and even SLR's with just a normal lens attached. I wonder how many people might get better pictures with just one focal length to use and master instead of a zoom ring with infinite possibilities.

I would think the ability to shoot without any cost implication brought a great increase in quantity at the expense of quality. People more carefully composed when they had to buy film, and the number of shots were limited. On the other hand, "costless" shooting and instant check-up of the results makes it easier to systematically improve your technique and to learn by trial and error
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