"Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....

Started May 13, 2012 | Discussions
Don_D
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"Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
May 13, 2012

a Step in the Evolution of the American Identity"...Peter Goodman.

Goodman says:

"Obama's words have the force of symbolism alone. They do not change the law or remove the discrimination still confronted by gay people throughout much of life, and most pointedly on the matter of marriage.

The real meaning of Obama's announcement is found not in the evolution of this one man's thinking, but in the evolution of the American character--which has now taken a significant step forward."
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TFergus
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to Don_D, May 14, 2012

Don_D wrote:

"Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....

....apparently losing him lots of votes, especially from the moral democrats.

At least the polls, and many interviews have said so.

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JasonMI
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to TFergus, May 14, 2012

"Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-05-11/USA-TODAYGallup-poll-Obama-gay-marriage/54905424/1

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Princess Leia
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to JasonMI, May 14, 2012

He will lose many black voters since most of them are very religious and they listen to their priests, pastors closely...

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/05/13/same-sex-marriage-supporters-opponents-gear-up-for-november-ballot/

“God said in every home, there needs to be a representation of his glory through manhood and femininity,” Pastor Harry Jackson, Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, said.

Some people here still don't get the significant meaning of procreation !

JasonMI wrote:

"Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-05-11/USA-TODAYGallup-poll-Obama-gay-marriage/54905424/1

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Princess Leia
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to Don_D, May 14, 2012

Don_D, it is election year!

Don_D wrote:

a Step in the Evolution of the American Identity"...Peter Goodman.

Goodman says:

"Obama's words have the force of symbolism alone. They do not change the law or remove the discrimination still confronted by gay people throughout much of life, and most pointedly on the matter of marriage.

The real meaning of Obama's announcement is found not in the evolution of this one man's thinking, but in the evolution of the American character--which has now taken a significant step forward."
--
Don
http://www.pbase.com/dond

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TFergus
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to JasonMI, May 14, 2012

JasonMI wrote:

"Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-05-11/USA-TODAYGallup-poll-Obama-gay-marriage/54905424/1

Do they mention how many are polled... or where (because I didn't look, maybe they do).

But taking a 100 person poll in San Fran, or Saugatuck, MI.... is not a real representation of "percentage of Americans".... nor would taking the same poll in Houston TX.

We all know that while almost 40 states (and growing) have had elections where Gay Marriage is not recognized/accepted/wanted..... says a lot more than any newspaper "poll".

But by all means hang onto every thread you can... and ignore the obvious.

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Bill Force
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to Don_D, May 14, 2012

This is a totally false premise because it makes the assumption that homosexuality is NORMAL and IMO it is not. I am not a religious freak either but a pragmatist. When the gays can show me that they can procreate then I may listen, otherwise it's simply a perversion of their personal choosing or a "predisposition". I have spent most of my life observing "wildlife" in the wilds of Calif., Oregon, Washington and now Colombia but I have never witnessed a "gay" deer, wolf, coyote or any other mammal. This IMO simply a human failing of the hypothalamus or some other failure in the human system much the same as autism or D.S. is a system failure.

My oldest son recently died from HIV after many years of trying to defeat it. In observing his behavior from the time he was able to talk till his demise I saw a system failure. By the same token I have watched vulnerable young men enter into a gay lifestyle (Hollywood) because of survival much like any prostitutee would if given no choice. IMO some of these young men were not inherently gay but reacted to the need of survival, so this became a choice issue.

My only problem with gay's or the lifestyle of their choosing is the fact that they and their media continually try to convince me and the rest of the world that their lifestyle is NORMAL and it is not.

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Don_D
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to Bill Force, May 14, 2012

Bill Force wrote:

My oldest son recently died from HIV after many years of trying to defeat it. In observing his behavior from the time he was able to talk till his demise I saw a system failure.

Bill, I'm sorry for your loss.

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lanef
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to Bill Force, May 15, 2012

Bill Force wrote:

This is a totally false premise because it makes the assumption that homosexuality is NORMAL and IMO it is not. I am not a religious freak either but a pragmatist. When the gays can show me that they can procreate then I may listen, otherwise it's simply a perversion of their personal choosing or a "predisposition". I have spent most of my life observing "wildlife" in the wilds of Calif., Oregon, Washington and now Colombia but I have never witnessed a "gay" deer, wolf, coyote or any other mammal. This IMO simply a human failing of the hypothalamus or some other failure in the human system much the same as autism or D.S. is a system failure.

My oldest son recently died from HIV after many years of trying to defeat it. In observing his behavior from the time he was able to talk till his demise I saw a system failure. By the same token I have watched vulnerable young men enter into a gay lifestyle (Hollywood) because of survival much like any prostitutee would if given no choice. IMO some of these young men were not inherently gay but reacted to the need of survival, so this became a choice issue.

My only problem with gay's or the lifestyle of their choosing is the fact that they and their media continually try to convince me and the rest of the world that their lifestyle is NORMAL and it is not.

Personally, I don't have any problem with someone choice of sexuality, gay, bisexual or heterosexual, but I am against the adoption of children. You can't have it both ways; a child needs both a mother and father for his/her development. I have difficulty to see two women handling one or two adopted boys when they go through their teenager’s life and likewise I have difficulty to see two men being able to handle a teenager girl. This is selfishness, what they want but at the same time don’t give a dam about using kids as guinea pigs. Also I don't understand why any group has to push their sexual preference in everybody’s face, glamorising it, I don't see the heterosexual or the bisexual groups doing it.

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Henry Schobin
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The real meaning of Obama's announcement is simply political.
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

Anyone who thinks otherwise is a loyal democrat.

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Rethink your last comment.

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Henry Schobin
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No way.
In reply to Princess Leia, May 15, 2012

No way he will lose "many" black voters, if he loses a dozen I will be SHOCKED.

He got 95% of the black vote last time (no racism there of course )

He will get 95% again this time around too (no racism there of course )

Princess Leia wrote:

He will lose many black voters since most of them are very religious and they listen to their priests, pastors closely...

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2012/05/13/same-sex-marriage-supporters-opponents-gear-up-for-november-ballot/

“God said in every home, there needs to be a representation of his glory through manhood and femininity,” Pastor Harry Jackson, Hope Christian Church in Beltsville, said.

Some people here still don't get the significant meaning of procreation !

JasonMI wrote:

"Overall, 51% approve of Obama's new position on same-sex marriage, compared with 45% who disapprove. Nearly 13% say his shift in position will make them more likely to vote for him, while 26% say it will make them less likely, suggesting that more supporters of likely GOP nominee Mitt Romney feel more strongly about this issue than do base supporters of Obama."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-05-11/USA-TODAYGallup-poll-Obama-gay-marriage/54905424/1

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Rethink your last comment.

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Don_D
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to lanef, May 15, 2012

lanef wrote:

Personally, I don't have any problem with someone choice of sexuality, gay, bisexual or heterosexual, but I am against the adoption of children. You can't have it both ways; a child needs both a mother and father for his/her development. I have difficulty to see two women handling one or two adopted boys when they go through their teenager’s life and likewise I have difficulty to see two men being able to handle a teenager girl. This is selfishness, what they want but at the same time don’t give a dam about using kids as guinea pigs.

I think your fears are unfounded.....gay or lesbian parents are as loving and as capable of raising children as straight parents. I know gay families with adopted children and the parents have given up a lot, both financially and of their time to be able to have a family. Their kids are turning out just fine.

Unfortunately some kids have NO parents and many, many are raised by single moms where there is no father around.

One factor does comes to mind; gay or lesbian families often locate in large cities with diverse populations that are more likely to accept a kid with "two mommys or two daddys".
I suspect that your neighborhood would not be a good choice.

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Don_D
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Interestingly...
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

..I just picked up this Sunday's NY Times and read in Kenji Yoshino's op ed piece:

"...the evidence showed that children raised by gay or lesbian parents are as likely as children raised by heterosexual parents to be healthy, successful and well-adjusted

...and that the research supporting this conclusion is accepted beyond serious debate in the field of developmental psychology."

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28to70
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Ithink Obama is coming out of the closet.
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

Just wait for the next issue of Newsweek

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lanef
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Re: "Obama's Gay Marriage Endorsement is....
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

Don_D wrote:

lanef wrote:

Personally, I don't have any problem with someone choice of sexuality, gay, bisexual or heterosexual, but I am against the adoption of children. You can't have it both ways; a child needs both a mother and father for his/her development. I have difficulty to see two women handling one or two adopted boys when they go through their teenager’s life and likewise I have difficulty to see two men being able to handle a teenager girl. This is selfishness, what they want but at the same time don’t give a dam about using kids as guinea pigs.

I think your fears are unfounded.....gay or lesbian parents are as loving and as capable of raising children as straight parents. I know gay families with adopted children and the parents have given up a lot, both financially and of their time to be able to have a family. Their kids are turning out just fine.

Fear? Oh, you are going on a long stretch here. Do you know how hard it is actually for single mothers to raise teenager boys or single fathers to raise teenager girls? We were told not so long ago by psychologists in Australia that there are not enough male teachers in primary schools, boys are going through their primary school period without a male role model in class, now what about through his whole life, are you kidding me?

In my family, we raised 4 boys, I can assure you my wife alone or with another female partner would have been impossible to replace a father.

“Blankenhorn further explains:Compared to a mother's love, a father's love is frequently more expectant, more instrumental, and significantly less conditional. . . . For the child, from the beginning, the mother's love is an unquestioned source of comfort and the foundation of human attachment. But the father's love is almost a bit farther away, more distant and contingent. Compared to the mother's love, the father's must frequently be sought after, deserved, earned through achievement.”

“Author and sociologist David Popenoe confirms that mothers and fathers fulfill different roles in their children's lives. In Life without Father Popenoe notes, "Through their play, as well as in their other child-rearing activities, fathers tend to stress competition, challenge, initiative, risk taking and independence. Mothers in their care-taking roles, in contrast, stress emotional security and personal safety."

Parents also discipline their children differently: "While mothers provide an important flexibility and sympathy in their discipline, fathers provide ultimate predictability and consistency. Both dimensions are critical for an efficient, balanced, and humane child-rearing regime.”
http://www.orthodoxytoday.org/articles/DaileyGayAdopt.php

Unfortunately some kids have NO parents and many, many are raised by single moms where there is no father around.

This happens because of unforseen circumstances but was not planned that way.

Go and talk to your local police and ask them how many boys they pick up going off rails are among those with single mothers.

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lanef
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Re: Interestingly...
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

Don_D wrote:

..I just picked up this Sunday's NY Times and read in Kenji Yoshino's op ed piece:

"...the evidence showed that children raised by gay or lesbian parents are as likely as children raised by heterosexual parents to be healthy, successful and well-adjusted

...and that the research supporting this conclusion is accepted beyond serious debate in the field of developmental psychology."

Timothy J. Dailey Ph.D.

A number of studies in recent years have purported to show that children raised in gay and lesbian households fare no worse than those reared in traditional families. Yet much of that research fails to meet acceptable standards for psychological research; it is compromised by methodological flaws and driven by political agendas instead of an objective search for truth. In addition, openly lesbian researchers sometimes conduct research with an interest in portraying homosexual parenting in a positive light. The deficiencies of studies on homosexual parenting include reliance upon an inadequate sample size, lack of random sampling, lack of anonymity of research participants, and self-presentation bias.

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Great Bustard
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It's said by some that the people get the government they deserve...
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

Don_D wrote:

a Step in the Evolution of the American Identity"...Peter Goodman.

Goodman says:

"Obama's words have the force of symbolism alone. They do not change the law or remove the discrimination still confronted by gay people throughout much of life, and most pointedly on the matter of marriage.

The real meaning of Obama's announcement is found not in the evolution of this one man's thinking, but in the evolution of the American character--which has now taken a significant step forward."

...and, unfortuntely, it seems there are enough Americans that feel this is the decisive issue by which to choose the President.

Honestly, the only solution is to take power from the federal government, give it to the states, take power from the states and give it to the counties, and take power from the counties, and give it to the cities.

Then we'll see see which system fares the best -- gun-free homosexual atheist druggies who kill unborn baby city-states like San Francisco, or gun-toting heterosexual God-fearing drug-free masturbation-is-a-sin states like, well, all of Oklahoma.

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Great Bustard
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So what you're saying is...
In reply to lanef, May 15, 2012

lanef wrote:

Go and talk to your local police and ask them how many boys they pick up going off rails are among those with single mothers.

...that kids are better off in orphanages or foster homes than being adopted by gay parents, and that the real evil isn't gay marriage, since that will be at most 3% of the marriages, but people having sex out of wedlock and divorce, since this is why the most common household in America is the single mom.

Hmm.

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lanef
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Re: Interestingly...
In reply to Don_D, May 15, 2012

Don_D wrote:

..I just picked up this Sunday's NY Times and read in Kenji Yoshino's op ed piece:

"...the evidence showed that children raised by gay or lesbian parents are as likely as children raised by heterosexual parents to be healthy, successful and well-adjusted

There are two sides to a coin, don't also forget the lobby group and the politically correctness. You believe what you want to believe.

A man and woman are psychologically, psychologically and physically different, each one brings something different in a child’s life, you can’t substitute one for the other.

"And he found it strange that parents can influence so many facets of their children's lives -- but not in any way their sexual orientation.

That said, Schumm also finds evidence of gay mothers pushing their daughters, upset over a relationship with a man, to "try out women."

But also in his testimony was an inkling of the robust research Schumm has just completed. His study on sexual orientation, out next month, says that gay and lesbian parents are far more likely to have children who become gay. "I'm trying to prove that it's not 100 percent genetic," Schumm tells AOL News."

"Schumm concluded that children of lesbian parents identified themselves as gay 31 percent of the time; children of gay men had gay children 19 percent of the time, and children of a lesbian mother and gay father had at least one gay child 25 percent of the time."

"Furthermore, when the study restricted the results so that they included only children in their 20s -- presumably after they'd been able to work out any adolescent confusion or experimentation -- 58 percent of the children of lesbians called themselves gay, and 33 percent of the children of gay men called themselves gay. (About 5 to 10 percent of the children of straight parents call themselves gay, Schumm says."

"But couldn't gay men also tell their sons this? Yes, but Schumm tells AOL News that most gay men have at some point been with a woman, so they understand why their sons might date them. Whereas the literature shows some lesbians "have a hatred of men that's intense," Schumm says."

http://www.aolnews.com/2010/10/17/study-gay-parents-more-likely-to-have-gay-kids/

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lanef
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Re: So what you're saying is...
In reply to Great Bustard, May 15, 2012

Great Bustard wrote:

lanef wrote:

Go and talk to your local police and ask them how many boys they pick up going off rails are among those with single mothers.

...that kids are better off in orphanages or foster homes than being adopted by gay parents, and that the real evil isn't gay marriage, since that will be at most 3% of the marriages, but people having sex out of wedlock and divorce, since this is why the most common household in America is the single mom.

That's your analogy not mine. I am telling you exactly what I was told by some police officers here in Australia, they are on the ground, I cannot claim to know better than them. You take your own pick out of it, it's you call.

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