Why are Nikon users Locked

Started May 13, 2012 | Discussions
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SubPrime
Senior MemberPosts: 1,231
A Better question would be, why do many Canon vs Nikon threads?
In reply to Desifinado, May 14, 2012

Desifinado wrote:

so desperate for attention/approval in the Canon forums?

Seeing as virtually all of them are started by Canon users wanting to dismiss the D800 as insignificant or inferior?

SubPrime
Senior MemberPosts: 1,231
Re: Why are Nikon users
In reply to tocar, May 14, 2012

tocar wrote:

The ones that comes here and posts endless virtues of the D800 and bash the 5DIII  are insecure people.

Funny. The only people I noticed doing any bashing are insecure Canon fanatics  who incidentally "just read about the D800" and cherry pick whatever negative connotation they could find recycle it here endlessly.

I've been to the Nikon forum and a few are not too happy with the D800.

A few, meaning VERY few. Those who are displeased ended up with faulty cameras. None who have properly working copies have complained.

Actually the D800 threads has gone done considerably.

Herd too. I noticed that there 5D2 comments started returning.

carlk
Forum ProPosts: 15,680Gear list
Re: Why are Nikon users
In reply to Desifinado, May 14, 2012

Desifinado wrote:

so desperate for attention/approval in the Canon forums?

Because they can.

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ultimitsu
Senior MemberPosts: 5,232
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to David Hull, May 14, 2012

David Hull wrote:

However, what you see here is very little of Nikon users talking of the superiority of the D800, what you get are Canon users talking of the virtues of the D800, because they were expecting canon to produce something similar.

With the exception of the DR performance at low ISO, they are actually quite similar.

that depends on your definition of similar.

D800 delivers "SNR of 30dB while keeping a good dynamic range of 9 EVs and a color depth of 18bits" at iso 2853, while 5D3 can no longer do that at iso above 2293

D800 has measured resolution of 3200 LPH against 5D2's 2700, 5D3 is expected to have 2800 at the most.

in my book what one can discount as "similar" would be the 1.3 bit difference in colour depth. every other sensor related difference is pretty noticeable.

David Hull
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,228Gear list
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to ultimitsu, May 14, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

David Hull wrote:

However, what you see here is very little of Nikon users talking of the superiority of the D800, what you get are Canon users talking of the virtues of the D800, because they were expecting canon to produce something similar.

With the exception of the DR performance at low ISO, they are actually quite similar.

that depends on your definition of similar.

D800 delivers "SNR of 30dB while keeping a good dynamic range of 9 EVs and a color depth of 18bits" at iso 2853, while 5D3 can no longer do that at iso above 2293

D800 has measured resolution of 3200 LPH against 5D2's 2700, 5D3 is expected to have 2800 at the most.

in my book what one can discount as "similar" would be the 1.3 bit difference in colour depth. every other sensor related difference is pretty noticeable.

You are working real hard but sadly (for you) clients don't pay for test data and galleries don't hang DxO plots and differences of 1 to 2 dB are not noticeable. So... check back in when you can show some actual photographs instead of a bunch of meaningless numerical comparisons.

Here is a set of test data for you:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=41306003

If you think you can tell any difference between these things from a SNR perspective at 3200, have at it. The only place where the d800 shines is at ISO=100. If you are stiff for DR that is the only place where it makes sense to use it (well the most since anyway).

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tko
tko
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,887
why don't you link to a few threads?
In reply to Desifinado, May 14, 2012

I've found very few Nikon owners posting here. It's best not to make blanket statements without some kind of evidence.

Care to post a few links?

David Hull
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,228Gear list
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to ultimitsu, May 14, 2012

Since you seem impressed by numerical data, it might help if you reference the data you are working from bcause everything that I have seen including all the test shots etc. show very little difference in the performance of these things when the ISO is set into that range.

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Scott Larson
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,159Gear list
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to David Hull, May 14, 2012

David Hull wrote:

You are working real hard but sadly (for you) clients don't pay for test data and galleries don't hang DxO plots and differences of 1 to 2 dB are not noticeable. So... check back in when you can show some actual photographs instead of a bunch of meaningless numerical comparisons.

ultimitsu needs to shoot his technically superior camera next a better photographer with a technically inferior one. For two years I shot next to a great photographer shooting with a pathetic D2h while I shot with my superior 1D Mark IIn. His pictures were full of chroma noise that looked terrible and odd colors that weren't fixable, but nearly every game he turned in some fantastic shots that looked excellent in the programs at the next game. It took me years to take shots anything like those!

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ultimitsu
Senior MemberPosts: 5,232
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to David Hull, May 14, 2012

David Hull wrote:

You are working real hard but sadly (for you) clients don't pay for test data and galleries don't hang DxO plots and differences of 1 to 2 dB are not noticeable.

This paragraph shows your complete lack of understanding of the practical value of these measurements or that you are in denial.

1, Clients do know the difference, especially when it comes to resolution, maybe not in the 500 dollar per wedding market. one of my close pro friend owns a studio with 3 full time photographers, he has just made the switch, from 1Ds3 to D800, selling all his 10 L lenses. in wedding business there are always a large number of good shots not perfectly framed, often needs horizon straightened or distracting elements cropped. resolution always suffer. it is not uncommon to lose 20-50% resolution after cropping.

2, sports score basically means that provided they use similarly spec-ed lens, D800's can produce images at shutter speeds around 1/3 faster than 5D3 (just like IR's examples, except 5D3 has 2/3 longer SS), that means much less chance motion blur for moving subjects and less chance of camera shake blur for static subjects.

So... check back in when you can show some actual photographs instead of a bunch of meaningless numerical comparisons.

plenty of them already exist and we are only 1 month in. if you cant see them by now you will never be able to see them.

If you think you can tell any difference between these things from a SNR perspective at 3200, have at it.

no one is talking about iso 3200. how many iso 3200 do you have your last 1,000 keepers?

The only place where the d800 shines is at ISO=100. If you are stiff for DR that is the only place where it makes sense to use it (well the most since anyway).

you can keep saying it but it doesnt make it true.

ultimitsu
Senior MemberPosts: 5,232
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to Scott Larson, May 14, 2012

Scott Larson wrote:

ultimitsu needs to shoot his technically superior camera next a better photographer with a technically inferior one.

what is the point in that? are you buying better cameras for other people to use or yourself?

by the way I shoot next to a much better photographer quite regularly, but even he is switching to D800 from 1Ds3.

commiebiker
Senior MemberPosts: 1,388Gear list
Re: And here comes another one.
In reply to GaryJP, May 14, 2012

get over it, most of these threads are started by Canon folks just to get some attention

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Desifinado
Contributing MemberPosts: 965
That's a popular meme
In reply to ultimitsu, May 14, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

the nikon noises you see here are made by canon users

with frustrated Nikon trolls, but everybody who has watched this unfold knows it isn't true. It's just a talking point.

sandy b
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,053Gear list
Re: That's a popular meme
In reply to Desifinado, May 14, 2012

No, you just don't want it to be true, but it is.

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Cipher
Senior MemberPosts: 2,275Gear list
The biggest trolls are Canon users like chironNYC
In reply to Desifinado, May 14, 2012

It took only 2 or 3 people like him to turn the Canon forums into a circus. They've had many posts deleted because all they did was to try and start flame wars by baiting Nikon users.

Please post links to all these Nikon users who start flame wars. There may be one or two. On the other hand most of the complainers are Canon users not happy with the price $500 price increase for improved AF and a minor upgrade to the sensor.

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tko
tko
Veteran MemberPosts: 9,887
exactly
In reply to Cipher, May 14, 2012

One post by a Nikon user is nothing.

150 replies by Canon owners fanning the flames is a big deal.

Some people just don't get it.

Just is another useless thread started by a . . . Canon owner. We only have ourselves to blame.

David Hull
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,228Gear list
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to ultimitsu, May 14, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

David Hull wrote:

You are working real hard but sadly (for you) clients don't pay for test data and galleries don't hang DxO plots and differences of 1 to 2 dB are not noticeable.

This paragraph shows your complete lack of understanding of the practical value of these measurements or that you are in denial.

1, Clients do know the difference, especially when it comes to resolution, maybe not in the 500 dollar per wedding market. one of my close pro friend owns a studio with 3 full time photographers, he has just made the switch, from 1Ds3 to D800, selling all his 10 L lenses. in wedding business there are always a large number of good shots not perfectly framed, often needs horizon straightened or distracting elements cropped. resolution always suffer. it is not uncommon to lose 20-50% resolution after cropping.

My point was not about the resolution. In circumstances where resolution matters, the D800 is a clear winner. The operative phrase there is "where resolution matters". So that covers resolution, the rest of what you wrote amounts to "Much ado about nothing" or at least "much ado" about "not very much". It is best to leave the techno-babble to those who understand the real significance of 1 dB and 1/3 stop differences. Your efforts to pass off minutia as significant is clear evidence that it is really you who lacks the understanding.

2, sports score basically means that provided they use similarly spec-ed lens, D800's can produce images at shutter speeds around 1/3 faster than 5D3 (just like IR's examples, except 5D3 has 2/3 longer SS), that means much less chance motion blur for moving subjects and less chance of camera shake blur for static subjects.

LOL, I can’t even believe you posted this part. You just made my point. Thank you. As I said, the cameras are essentially identical in performance. 1/3 stop qualifies as minutia in my book (and just about everyone else’s most likely). The IR examples have been analyzed ad nauseum even to the point of the ad hoc BT I mention later which showed no practical difference.

So... check back in when you can show some actual photographs instead of a bunch of meaningless numerical comparisons.

plenty of them already exist and we are only 1 month in. if you cant see them by now you will never be able to see them.

I agree, plenty of samples exist and the one consistent thing among them, no matter who did the review, is how little difference there is between these two cameras. Of course, with your clear propensity to elevate minute differences to exaggerated levels of importance, I am not surprised you see otherwise. We have already had one person here run an ad hoc blind test here and the result was about 50/50 for picking out which camera shot what. As you point out, the samples are there and people can look for themselves and make up their own mind as to whether any difference they might see has significance.

If you think you can tell any difference between these things from a SNR perspective at 3200, have at it.

no one is talking about iso 3200. how many iso 3200 do you have your last 1,000 keepers?

No, but you were claiming that there is some sort of discernible difference in SNR ISO values in that range and that will not be true, measurable, perhaps, evident in day to day use... nope (sorry).

The only place where the d800 shines is at ISO=100. If you are stiff for DR that is the only place where it makes sense to use it (well the most since anyway).

you can keep saying it but it doesnt make it true.

The fact that I say it is not what makes it true. What makes it true is the fact that all of the measurement data and all of the published review samples say it is true. It is the fanboi evangelists like yourself that are living in denial of the facts and published data. I provided you a link to a nicely done curve set that shows this rather clearly. The DxO results also support this contention rather well. You can try to spin it anyway you want but the facts support my contention rather well.

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qianp2k
Senior MemberPosts: 8,276Gear list
Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to gdanmitchell, May 14, 2012

I agree most those threads started with Canon owners or used-to-be Canon owners but I did see some pure Nikon owners jumped into the threads in this forum either rebuttal or actually boast their Nikon gears. I encountered myself with some of them before not only in this forum but in Canon APS-C forum (such as boasted D7000 DR in 7D/60D forum). I aware their Nikon status by checking their posting and their gears they said they owned.

However I want to point two things,

a) Still inappropriate to rebuttal in foreign forums on something they believed BS posts. Who define what are BS or not? Many of those so-called BS are disputable actually. Otherwise there might be many BS posts in Nikon forums and our Canon owners should also go over there to hijack threads as some of them did in Canon forum?

b) Those used to own or might still own Canon cameras such as 5D2 who already bought Nikon cameras such as D800 should NOT go back in Canon forums to justify their purchases, and even worse by positive everything on their new Nikon camera and negative everything in their Canon gear. Why they simply cannot enjoy in Nikon forums instead of provoking in Canon forums? I don’t get that. People who interested in Nikon gears can learn lots more in Nikon forums instead of reading tons of BS winning in Canon forums that doesn’t help anybody but only putting more oil into the flame.

gdanmitchell wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

I don't want to name them but we have heard many complaints such as this one that many Nikon trolls in this Canon forum.

While I acknowledge that there have most certainly been a few "trolls" in this forum recently, keep in mind that it only takes a very small handful of poorly behaved people to mess things ups.

I'm completely confident that the vast majority of Nikon shooters would find the trolling just as onerous and embarrassing as we do.

Dan

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Scott Larson
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Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to ultimitsu, May 14, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

Scott Larson wrote:

ultimitsu needs to shoot his technically superior camera next a better photographer with a technically inferior one.

what is the point in that?

To show you that a technically superior camera does not always produce superior photos.

are you buying better cameras for other people to use or yourself?

I am not buying better cameras for anyone.

by the way I shoot next to a much better photographer quite regularly, but even he is switching to D800 from 1Ds3.

Did you ask this "much better photographer" why he or she is selling thousands of dollars of Canon lenses?

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Scott Larson
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Re: OP is right. There are no Canon Trolls in the Nikon Forums
In reply to ultimitsu, May 14, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

by the way I shoot next to a much better photographer quite regularly, but even he is switching to D800 from 1Ds3.

Maybe this statement explains it all: ultimitsu is in awe of a good photographer who, for some reason, is switching to a D800. ultimitsu assumes that he can be as talented as this photographer once he too owns this D800.

Good luck, ultimitsu.

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bobn2
Forum ProPosts: 26,068
Whose rules?
In reply to qianp2k, May 14, 2012

qianp2k wrote:

I agree most those threads started with Canon owners or used-to-be Canon owners but I did see some pure Nikon owners jumped into the threads in this forum either rebuttal or actually boast their Nikon gears. I encountered myself with some of them before not only in this forum but in Canon APS-C forum (such as boasted D7000 DR in 7D/60D forum). I aware their Nikon status by checking their posting and their gears they said they owned.

You constantly trim your story. First it was Nikon users starting it, now its mostly Canon owners or used to be be Canon owners. But you've found 'some' 'pure' Nikon owners. Still non names of course, we have to take your word for it. I can think of two - one is Renato Petrus, but he is always polite, never negative and posts because he believes in common interest. Two is Bill Claff, who posted because he had used his technical skills to analyse the performance of the 5DIII, and naively though people here might be interested in real performance figures.

However I want to point two things,

a) Still inappropriate to rebuttal in foreign forums on something they believed BS posts.

Why is that? Why should the fanboys in this forum have immunity from having BS called.

Who define what are BS or not? Many of those so-called BS are disputable actually.

And if they are not BS, then the original poster will be able to successfully defend what he said by posting the supporting evidence, won't he? Of course, if he can't one would have to conclude that they were, in fact, BS. And as above, one would think that if you post BS you might expect to be called.

Otherwise there might be many BS posts in Nikon forums and our Canon owners should also go over there to hijack threads as some of them did in Canon forum?

Here we go again? Name names or you're just a blowhard. link to some of these 'BS' posts. Otherwise there is no reason to take you seriously.

b) Those used to own or might still own Canon cameras such as 5D2 who already bought Nikon cameras such as D800 should NOT go back in Canon forums to justify their purchases, and even worse by positive everything on their new Nikon camera and negative everything in their Canon gear.

I don't see a lot of that. What I do see is people defending their purchase choice in the face of a lot of BS posted by insecure fanboys. If the folk on the Nikon forum were incessantly posting about the 5DIII light leak, or going on about how inferior it was because of its DR deficit, or going on about its inferior build quality because of its plastic chassis, or claiming that the D800 focusses much faster, then I think it would be very fair for 5DIII owners to defend their choice against those calumnies, but by and large that doesn't happen, so the defence doesn't happen. While over here, the forum is full of posts doing down the D800 and people who like the D800 defending it - now just why is that?

Why they simply cannot enjoy in Nikon forums instead of provoking in Canon forums?

That is exactly what they are doing. Over on the Nikon forums people are discussing the D4, the D800 and the soon to be D600, their strengths, their weaknesses and they are bay and large not even mentioning the 5DIII and 1D X. You over here all people can find to talk about is the D800 - now just why is that?

I don’t get that. People who interested in Nikon gears can learn lots more in Nikon forums instead of reading tons of BS winning in Canon forums that doesn’t help anybody but only putting more oil into the flame.

The flame oiler is you. The bands of Nikon users over here to troll this forum is a figment of your paranoid fanboy imagination.
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