Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!

Started May 12, 2012 | Discussions
Theo Peters
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Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
May 12, 2012

My thoughts about Leica, they should develop a cheaper body like What Soney is doing with Nex 7 and maybe further Nex8-9 etc.

This new M9 monochrom is absurd price wise.......

A cheaper quality body is going for leica a big selling point and boost in sales
This is all what it is in this and other business, make "PROFIT"

Just my thoughts.

Theo

SphericalAberration
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Theo Peters, May 12, 2012

The M9-M is all about profit.
The problem is their current production capacity is limited.
So maximum profit is achieved selling a few high value items.

However they are building new factories in Wetzlar and Portugal.

Once these are on line there will be space for higher volume lower margin products such as a mini-M with EVF - 2013/14. ?

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ulfie
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to SphericalAberration, May 12, 2012

Leica did once back in film days though via its partnership with then-Minolta: The Leitz-Minolta CL. Then came the CL3 from Minolta only.

Why not again today? ulfie

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chiane
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to ulfie, May 12, 2012

ulfie wrote:

Leica did once back in film days though via its partnership with then-Minolta: The Leitz-Minolta CL. Then came the CL3 from Minolta only.

Why not again today? ulfie

Aren't they doing that with Panasonic. They add the red dot to the exact same camera and double the price.

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Jim Radcliffe
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to chiane, May 12, 2012

chiane wrote:

ulfie wrote:

Leica did once back in film days though via its partnership with then-Minolta: The Leitz-Minolta CL. Then came the CL3 from Minolta only.

Why not again today? ulfie

Aren't they doing that with Panasonic. They add the red dot to the exact same camera and double the price.

The body needs to accept M-mount lenses... none of the Panasonics do this.. they are simply re-badged Panny cameras with the red dot added and the price inflated.

I have long thought that the entry level camera for Leica should be a Digital CL.. it is a gateway to the M and of course M-mount lenses.

Know this... Leica will develop nothing that might impact the sale of their M system in a negative way.

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Joe Pineapples
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Why was the CL discontinued?
In reply to Jim Radcliffe, May 13, 2012

The story going around was that the popularity of the CL were impacting sales of the unloved M5. The CL implemented TTL metering better than the M5, and was cuter, cheaper, and just as well made. The only drawback technically was the slightly shorter RF baseline.

Personally I would like to see a really up-to-date M-body, meaning live view, and a state-of-the-art EVF supporting precise manual focus and framing. It can be high-end, full-frame, and all that, just knock off the hand-tooled wombat leather etc. People would pay a reasonable price for excellent lenses and QC / QA, which is what Leica's reputation has been built on...

Joe

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Gary H
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Theo Peters, May 13, 2012

I thought that it was common knowledge that they are announcing a compact interchangeable lens system in September. It will be cheaper, but I doubt that it will be affordable to many.

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DRabbit
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Jim Radcliffe, May 13, 2012

Jim Radcliffe wrote:

Know this... Leica will develop nothing that might impact the sale of their M system in a negative way.

Hi Jim

At this point, someone else could though. Like the GXR with M-Module. Or the Fuji with M-Adaptor. I think Sony and Ricoh, with their focus peaking, might have come closest executing the idea well... but it could be done even better.

There was this CRAZY idea back when the M8 was first released that Leica was going to keep supporting the camera forever, even upgrading sensors for it's customers as time went by. I believe that crazy idea came straight from Leica at the time. Of course, that guy was fired if I remember correctly. LOL

I'll keep wishing for a Digital CL type camera, but I kinda know it's a pipe-dream. I get the distinct impression Leica isn't interested in middle-class serious, but still in the enthusiast camp, photographer. Oh well.

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DRabbit
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Gary H, May 13, 2012

Gary H wrote:

I thought that it was common knowledge that they are announcing a compact interchangeable lens system in September. It will be cheaper, but I doubt that it will be affordable to many.

Doesn't mean it will mount M-lenses natively. I suspect it might end up being a rebranded camera, like the OMD or GH3. But who knows. I'm only guessing, just like everyone else.

From what I've heard elsewhere, it's unlikely to be announced in 2012 at all.

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Gesture
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to DRabbit, May 13, 2012

Good thoughts.
"The problem is their current production capacity is limited."

I think that's it. Haven't really figured out how to manufacture more and more cheaply, without diminishing (legendary) quality. I remember the last days of the Rolleiflex. The camera was essentially unchanged for years, but they couldn't bring it in for, say, $1,000, a lot of money 20 years ago.

I don't buy that it's labor cost as much as labor process. Any manufacturer has to figure out what processes are best handled by robotics and what best by hands-on. In fact, it's amazing how much consumer electronics must apparently still be assembled bit by bit by hand.

Yes, a digital CL would be wonderful. I don't need myriads of lenses, just a good wide-angle, normal and short telephoto. And it might be too late to interest Panasonic in such a joint venture.

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JasperD
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Theo Peters, May 13, 2012

Why would they? As long as there is this huge waiting list for their potential customers, they don´t need to, do they? It would only make the list longer, not sell more...

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Archiver
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to JasperD, May 13, 2012

Leica has already stated their intention to build an interchangeable lens camera with EVF and a sensor that is "at least" aps-c size. At the same time they also stated they are unlikely to develop another line of lenses as this would spread their resources too thinly. This would suggest a new ILC that can use M-mount lenses, as their m43 lenses will most likely not work on an aps-c sensor, nor will the elephantine S-lenses. I believe that Leica also said that the price would fall between the X and M lines.

If these things hold true, and the new camera's performance is up to scratch, it will sell like blazes in the Leica niche. But more than $2k for a mirrorless body? It had better be damn good.
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Irakly Shanidze
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Theo Peters, May 13, 2012

Theo, what are you talking about? They cannot satisfy demand for M9, why would they divert resources to something less profitable?
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tinternaut
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Re: Depends if there's a market for it....
In reply to Theo Peters, May 13, 2012

A mass produced, plastic version of the M8 would be easy enough to accomplish and Leica, being Leica could still probably get away with charging upwards of £2000 for it. But would such a camera sell? Or would it be popular only with a minority of film M owners who balk at the current cost of a digital M?

Also, would it dilute the Leica brand? At the moment, like it or not, if it's got Leica written on it, it must be expensive.

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Ulfric M Douglas
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Quality control
In reply to Joe Pineapples, May 13, 2012

Joe Pineapples wrote:

... People would pay a reasonable price for excellent lenses and QC / QA, which is what Leica's reputation has been built on...

"Had been built on" ; the blatantly poor quality control during this digital age has damaged their reputation and trustworthiness amongst their own customers.

( I dare say their manual glass (M-mount) is as well tested as ever, and is an exception to their QC decline. )

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tinternaut
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Re: With QC, there are two Leicas
In reply to Ulfric M Douglas, May 13, 2012

Maybe three.....

  • The company that rebadges Panasonic cameras

  • The German camera company that still relies on a lot of hand crafting and empirical inspection.

Not sure where the X1 and X2 fit in there but I'd guess an element of mass manufacturing.

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PSCL1
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Re: Depends if there's a market for it....
In reply to tinternaut, May 13, 2012

As someone said earlier in this thread, Leica partnered with Minolta in the film days to produce the Leica CL, identical Leitz-Minolta CL, and subsequent Minolta CLE, as well as 3 compact and very affordable lenses (28, 40, 90) for them. As CL was being discontinued in 1976, I bought it w/40 (total $295) and added the 90, anticipating this would be the chance of my lifetime to get into the unaffordable (for me!) Leica system. I still own and use this equipment even in the digital era. Alas, I never was able to re-order my financial responsibilities and priorites to get further into the system. I only regret never buying the 28, which was $195 at the time, now goes used for $595 [sigh!].

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MISTERX
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Theo Peters, May 13, 2012

Sameone should develop and sell a FF body for the leica M mount.

I still have 5 Leica M lens sleeping in my photo bag waiting for a digital body, prefered a Full frame one to keep the conversion factor 1:1.
is not matter if it is B/W sensor only if cheap enough.
The Sony nex7 or NEX5n is a good aprouch.
A cheap FF Nikon mount body was a good idea but the 5D makes the job.

The matter is Leica prices are too much high,despite i was a LEICA user I am not goind to expend that money for near future obsolete electronic cameras.

Photo is now an electronic junk hobby and my money is better expent in electronic gadchets. My Samsung EX1 gives me more fun that any Leica stuff I own.

In fact I am thinking in selling the leica stuff and buying a CZ 21mm lens fro the 5D to enjoy the FF wideangle.

Sony NEX looks ia good companion for the leica lens except for the Wide angle lens. I am a fun of the 24mm of the EX1.
I´ll buy an afordable FF with M mount the day it appears.

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The Andy G
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to Theo Peters, May 13, 2012

I'm sure they'll get right on that. Give them a call, I am sure they'll be happy to hear your thoughts.

http://us.leica-camera.com/contact/

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Your lens has high frequency of nyquists
in the micro contrast of the bokeh.

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DaveOl
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Re: Leica should develop a cheaper body!!!!!
In reply to The Andy G, May 14, 2012

That cheaper body is called a Zeiss Ikon.

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