Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow

Started May 12, 2012 | Discussions
PerL
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Re: Wont happen
In reply to Sean Nelson, May 13, 2012

Sean Nelson wrote:

PerL wrote:

It is unprofessional and a bad business decison to let portability have priority over the images.

Sean Nelson wrote:

...and yet this is precisely what happened when 35mm film replaced 120/220 roll film as the mainstream professional shooting format.

Jogger wrote:

Its still being used today while 35mm film is basically replaced entirely by digital. And, MF bodies and digital backs are alive and well.

Yes, but the mainstream has moved on and MF is now a niche. That's the point - when image quality is good enough, size is important. And like it or not, image quality on sensors smaller than full frame and even APS-C is now getting to be good enough that they are poised to move into the mainstream.

MF can still produce better images than FF. FF will still have better IQ than M43. But M43 will be good enough for most purposes.

You are forgetting the DOF-control, where FF always will be better.
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Richt2000
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 13, 2012

Ha ha he has never shot wildlife then.
Who is he anyway? Related to Friar Tuck?

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

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Bill Wallace
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Rich....
In reply to Richt2000, May 13, 2012

He's a pro from Austin Tx. Go by his site and see what he shoots. He gave his opinion "on his site"...see his work and you can easily see why for him and many other shooters these smaller formats will work just fine.

Check him out before you so easily dismiss and read carefully what he wrote.

Bill
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PerL
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Re: Wont happen
In reply to Kirk Tuck, May 13, 2012

Kirk Tuck wrote:

Yes. We should all buy our professional cameras based on the photographers shooting at the Olympic Games. And that would be what? about .0001 % of the working photographers in North America? Or do all the professionals shoot at the Olympics? This fixation with sports photography as the end all, be all of professional photography is becoming moronic.

You dont have to go to the Olympics to see the big tele guns from Nikon and Canon. You see them at the majority of games and events that are covered in a newspaper. Most photo departments has a few in a pool which the staff photographers can use.

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Raist3d
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 13, 2012

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Been discussed elsewhere and I disagree with him. And as far as dpreview, the EM-5 is hardly the only camera "anointed" by this website. So what is that supposed to mean?

I think presents a few interesting and a couple of valid points but the whole thing really seems tainted by the unilateral vision of having only a hammer.

A lot of what he is writing about seems quite a bit off- like pros scared of leaving Canikon for fear of trying something new. Yes, because a pro would swap their entire lens system and workflow to another untried (yet) camera to make his pro-cash. That's oh such a right idea.

And what next then? Didn't he mention before pens where fine? Or was it the G3, and now the EM5? What happens with a G3H comes out or the EM5 MK II? etc.

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

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javayoda
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Re: Prius..EXCELLENT ANALOGY
In reply to CrashE3, May 13, 2012

My third-generation Prius (2010) has a small vent next to the back seat for cooling the battery that sounds exactly like the EM5. Seriously.

I do get passed by SUVs all the time though...when they're speeding. And really, if I want to drive a powerful vehicle bigger and safer than most SUVs, I'll take the wife's mini-van.

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Olymore
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Re: Fluffy nonsense...
In reply to Barry Fitzgerald, May 13, 2012

I suspect that you will find the reviews 'critical enough' at the sites that support your opinion.

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tinternaut
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Re: Amen (NT)
In reply to Kirk Tuck, May 13, 2012
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boho
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Re: But if portability is a benefit
In reply to TrapperJohn, May 13, 2012

there is no equal sign between mirror-less and smaller sensors.
mirror-less is just mirror-less and it can be pretty well full frame as well.
there is no more need for mirrors in a digital camera since there are EVFs.

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Jim Holloman
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Re: Wont happen
In reply to PerL, May 13, 2012

PerL wrote:
...

You are forgetting the DOF-control, where FF always will be better.

What if DOF-Control was transferred from incredibly EXPENSIVE and HEAVY lenses (which also means heavy tripods, heavy mono-pods, heavy camera bags) to relatively inexpensive software. It is not only feasible, but not far-fetched, either.

The point I was trying to make, and some will not ever accept, is that we cannot see the future -- we cannot predict the future; not even 4 or 5 years ahead. Many companies develop 3 year and 5 year plans. And, these plans provide a "road map" to where the company wants to go. Yet, at the end of the periods, the companies often find themselves nowhere near where they were expecting to be -- often times because of unpredictable technological developments or business developments or shifts in international relations. It wasn't too many years ago that Apply computer had to be saved from near bankruptcy by Microsoft. Now, look -- who is the "king of the mountain"?

What if, in 4 years, we have a new sensor design that captures images at 25,000 ISO with noise levels no higher than today's sensors at 400 ISO. And DOF was controlled by software. Would we still need HEAVY and EXPENSIVE lenses? I wouldn't think so. The IBIS in the OM-D has taken a big step towards eliminating the tripod -- and I would not have predicted it.

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zxaar
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Re: Wont happen
In reply to Jim Holloman, May 13, 2012

Jim Holloman wrote:
PerL wrote:
...

You are forgetting the DOF-control, where FF always will be better.

What if DOF-Control was transferred from incredibly EXPENSIVE and HEAVY lenses (which also means heavy tripods, heavy mono-pods, heavy camera bags) to relatively inexpensive software. It is not only feasible, but not far-fetched, either.

That day will be death of m43 format, because by the time that would happen cellphone cams would be good enough for usual masses. If not cellphones then pentax Q would be the best and unbeatable option for masses because of size.

The point I was trying to make, and some will not ever accept, is that we cannot see the future -- we cannot predict the future; not even 4 or 5 years ahead. Many companies develop 3 year and 5 year plans. And, these plans provide a "road map" to where the company wants to go. Yet, at the end of the periods, the companies often find themselves nowhere near where they were expecting to be -- often times because of unpredictable technological developments or business developments or shifts in international relations. It wasn't too many years ago that Apply computer had to be saved from near bankruptcy by Microsoft. Now, look -- who is the "king of the mountain"?

What if, in 4 years, we have a new sensor design that captures images at 25,000 ISO with noise levels no higher than today's sensors at 400 ISO. And DOF was controlled by software. Would we still need HEAVY and EXPENSIVE lenses? I wouldn't think so. The IBIS in the OM-D has taken a big step towards eliminating the tripod -- and I would not have predicted it.

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Raist3d
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Re: Tuck has jumped the shark
In reply to Crimguy, May 13, 2012

Crimguy wrote:

I think you make good points. IMHO Panasonic was a step ahead in the m43 realm since the G1/GH1 came out. However, I do think the E-M5 is a bit of a game changer for m43's as Tuck does. Why?

1) While the GH2 came VERY close to matching the sensor performance of APS-C cameras, it still fell apart a bit with dynamic range and high iso performance.

And that still happens with the em5. The em5 closed the gap a bit but va best apache all those things are still true. Whether you care about it for your photography is a different matter. I personally think I would be fine for the most part with the fast primes and the em5, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing that in the sensor department the k-5 for example still does better on the extreme situations. Notably better.

2) Adding weather-sealing and magnesium alloy body tells the professional photographer this camera has more than casual aspirations. The Panny GHx cameras always felt a bit flimsy in my hands and everyone is touting the build quality of the E-M5. That's important for a lot of professionals.

3) Adding two control dials, like #2, shows the camera aspires to more than casual photography.
4) The grip does the same.
4) 9FPS capability allows the machine-gun photojournalists to do their thing.

Tuck acknowledges in the comments that the camera doesn't do sports, but rightly IMHO points out that this is only one facet of professional photography.

I think it equally important to bring up the question of how it works in studio use, with multiple flash guns/zones. I really don't know the answer to this, but the professionals sure love the Nikon system, and the new Canon system looks very nice.

Someone pointed out that photojournalists need a better camera than m43 can offer at this point. I have to disagree with this. I'd say they would benefit more from a compact system. The autofocus system appears to be very fast and capable. Sports and photojournalism are two different markets.

mirrorless cameras are not replacing DSLR's any time soon. A lot of photographers have a problem with EVF's, for starters.

Nikon has shown that pdaf can be used with mirrorless cameras. When their innovation in that arena makes its way onto cameras with a larger sensor and more than just a shutter release button (Canon perhaps?), you will see a number of photographers rethink their package.

This may sound a bit counter-intuitive, but I think Olympus and/or Panasonic would be well-served by making a slightly larger camera. I'm gathering the E-M5 is just a smidgen larger than my old E-P1, which would actually be a bit too small for easy access to all controls. They need a camera that is slightly larger to accommodate more control points. Maybe the size of an OM-4, E-620, or an AE-1, with grip option etc.

Bob Meyer wrote:

He's lost all objectivity and knowledge of history when it comes to the OMD. Yes, it's a very good camera. In some ways it's better than the GH2 and G3, but in other ways it's only just caught up with what Panasonic has had for 2 years. He totally ignores Panasonic's role in driving m43 (which probably wouldn't exist today were it not for Panasonic), and Panasonic's long (relatively) history of providing near-professional class m43 cameras with lots of controls and EVFs. It's like he just woke up yesterday, discovered the OMD, and thinks Olympus is the first company to think of such a camera.

Please, Kirk, wake up and regain some objectivity. The OMD is a very good camera. It's not perfect, it can't do everything even some entry level DSLRs can do, and it's not revolutionary in the slightest. It's simply the latest evolution of an m43 design approach that's been around since the G1 and GH1.

And it's not about to displace DSLRs from their place in the market.
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DarkShift
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Re: Hand is up
In reply to PerL, May 13, 2012

Ehmm, and why not?

EVF on my OM-D works really good, and is easier to work with in dark ambient light than my 5D mkII. OVF gets really dark soon, while EVF can bump up the ISO. Focuses better too.

Your idea about what equipment "pros" use is very old fashioned. IQ wise most press and sports photography is not very demanding.

Technical print quality on news papers is really bad compared to fine art or magazines. And web sizes are really small to make distinction between sensor sizes. I see no reason why m4/3 wouldn't be good enough for news photography.

PerL wrote:

The EVF is one reason the "heavy duty" category of pros I am talking about wont buy mirrorless. Note that that I also said there is another category pros with less demanding work equipmentwise that might agree with Kirk.

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PerL
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Re: Hand is up
In reply to DarkShift, May 13, 2012

DarkShift wrote:

Ehmm, and why not?

EVF on my OM-D works really good, and is easier to work with in dark ambient light than my 5D mkII. OVF gets really dark soon, while EVF can bump up the ISO. Focuses better too.

Your idea about what equipment "pros" use is very old fashioned. IQ wise most press and sports photography is not very demanding.

Please - you dont have much knowledge about this, that is obvious. Shall we take a look at the Olympics and see what the pros will be using? Those old fashioned guys at the sidelines that takes the worlds best sport photos.

Technical print quality on news papers is really bad compared to fine art or magazines. And web sizes are really small to make distinction between sensor sizes. I see no reason why m4/3 wouldn't be good enough for news photography.

PerL wrote:

The EVF is one reason the "heavy duty" category of pros I am talking about wont buy mirrorless. Note that that I also said there is another category pros with less demanding work equipmentwise that might agree with Kirk.

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Jim Holloman
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Re: Wont happen
In reply to zxaar, May 13, 2012

zxaar wrote:

Jim Holloman wrote:
PerL wrote:
...

You are forgetting the DOF-control, where FF always will be better.

What if DOF-Control was transferred from incredibly EXPENSIVE and HEAVY lenses (which also means heavy tripods, heavy mono-pods, heavy camera bags) to relatively inexpensive software. It is not only feasible, but not far-fetched, either.

That day will be death of m43 format, because by the time that would happen cellphone cams would be good enough for usual masses. If not cellphones then pentax Q would be the best and unbeatable option for masses because of size.

Certainly feasible. Cellphone cams have already had a large and unpredicted, for the most part, impact on the sale of P&S cameras. As living quarters and cars get smaller, so will the need for smaller devices (laptops vs desktops and tablets vs laptops, etc.). The trend is obvious and will continue. It is not only companies that are down-sizing.

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DarkShift
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Re: Hand is up
In reply to PerL, May 13, 2012

I was not speaking of AF system needed for sports photography.

Simply I don't see IQ very demanding for sports on news papers compared to other genres of photography. Besides most of it is not very inspiring at all.

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J2Gphoto
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Jogger, May 13, 2012

HE is a little more than a photographer with a blog. He is also a published photographer of a number of book, and also a highly paid and sought out photographer. The question is........ Who are you?

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Makinations
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Raist3d, May 13, 2012

Raist3d wrote:

Been discussed elsewhere and I disagree with him. And as far as dpreview, the EM-5 is hardly the only camera "anointed" by this website. So what is that supposed to mean?

I think presents a few interesting and a couple of valid points but the whole thing really seems tainted by the unilateral vision of having only a hammer.

A lot of what he is writing about seems quite a bit off- like pros scared of leaving Canikon for fear of trying something new. Yes, because a pro would swap their entire lens system and workflow to another untried (yet) camera to make his pro-cash. That's oh such a right idea.

He addressed that ...

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=41495955

And what next then? Didn't he mention before pens where fine? Or was it the G3, and now the EM5? What happens with a G3H comes out or the EM5 MK II? etc.

Pens are fine. So is the G3. The EM5 is better. So what?

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PerL
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Re: Hand is up
In reply to DarkShift, May 13, 2012

DarkShift wrote:

I was not speaking of AF system needed for sports photography.

Simply I don't see IQ very demanding for sports on news papers compared to other genres of photography. Besides most of it is not very inspiring at all.

Maybe you should apply for a job with your m43 and show them how to do it,
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DarkShift
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Re: Hand is up
In reply to PerL, May 13, 2012

Huh? Where did you get the silly idea that "pros" would like to use only one type camera?

I didn't actually recommend m4/3 for sports. For documentary and news OM-D would be great I think. IQ is fine many situations.

I actually use Canon for most paid stuff, and have a Sinar 4x5 too.

And I don't believe equipment makes an artist.

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