Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow

Started May 12, 2012 | Discussions
Tim in upstate NY
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Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
May 12, 2012

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

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PerL
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Lightweight pros and heavy duty pros
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Shooting corporate portraits and other non-demanding stuff is one thing, the demand that you should be able to shot anything under any circumstance is another.

The later category - news and sports photographers – are what Canons and Nikons pro models are aimed at. Mirrorless are not there, whatever Kirk Tuck says.

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

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frelwa
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

There is a thread on this already.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=41460749
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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to frelwa, May 12, 2012

frelwa wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

There is a thread on this already.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=41460749

. . . I searched two pages of posts before posting. Your link is to a thread about Kirk's article titled 'The invitation to coffee that will almost assuredly cost me $1500' from May 8th. My link is to another article posted on Kirk's blog site from May 10th.

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SeeRoy
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . .
Quote: "...While the world drives by in a Prius."

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

If the OMD E-M5 is a Prius amongst cameras, mine's going back on Monday...
Roy

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Jogger
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

1. His writing is awful. A copy editor would be a good start.

2. Who is Kirk Tuck? Someone with a blog.. oooh.

3. He's preaching to the converted in the same way that an evangelical preaches... anything for page hits i suppose.

4. Traditional big DSLR? You mean like the ones shooting the Olympics or the mainstay of news and event photogs.. i guess they are wannabe idiots who should all be shooting EM5s?

5. Anointed by DPR? .. like all those other cameras receiving Gold Awards?.. oh no, they dont exist. Keep your blinders on.

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

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jl123
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

"Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased." "

With a score of 80% no DPR does not get the fact that the OMD is a breakout redefining camera.

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jeffharris
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Re: Lightweight pros and heavy duty pros
In reply to PerL, May 12, 2012

PerL wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Great quote!

Shooting corporate portraits and other non-demanding stuff is one thing, the demand that you should be able to shot anything under any circumstance is another.

The later category - news and sports photographers – are what Canons and Nikons pro models are aimed at. Mirrorless are not there...

YET.

Give it a few years. Look how far the M4/3 system has come in a little over 3 years.

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MAubrey
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Jogger, May 12, 2012

Easy there, Trigger.
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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

frelwa wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

There is a thread on this already.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1041&thread=41460749

. . . I searched two pages of posts before posting. Your link is to a thread about Kirk's article titled 'The invitation to coffee that will almost assuredly cost me $1500' from May 8th. My link is to another article posted on Kirk's blog site from May 10th.

. . . I have just found another thread but it's at another forum. Still some good posts in it though:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1022&message=41480958

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Bob Meyer
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Tuck has jumped the shark
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

He's lost all objectivity and knowledge of history when it comes to the OMD. Yes, it's a very good camera. In some ways it's better than the GH2 and G3, but in other ways it's only just caught up with what Panasonic has had for 2 years. He totally ignores Panasonic's role in driving m43 (which probably wouldn't exist today were it not for Panasonic), and Panasonic's long (relatively) history of providing near-professional class m43 cameras with lots of controls and EVFs. It's like he just woke up yesterday, discovered the OMD, and thinks Olympus is the first company to think of such a camera.

Please, Kirk, wake up and regain some objectivity. The OMD is a very good camera. It's not perfect, it can't do everything even some entry level DSLRs can do, and it's not revolutionary in the slightest. It's simply the latest evolution of an m43 design approach that's been around since the G1 and GH1.

And it's not about to displace DSLRs from their place in the market.
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PerL
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Wont happen
In reply to jeffharris, May 12, 2012

jeffharris wrote:

PerL wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . . that says mirrorless is good enough and in many ways better than DSLR's (paraphrasing).

Quote: "The Olympus is selling like hot cakes not because it is so good (and it is a very good camera) but because it represents a tipping point into a sea change of camera buying by most serious amateur photographers. The fact that it has been anointed by no less than DPR is a testimony both to the camera and also to the prescience of the uber-marketers that the dam has indeed broken for a whole category and that the lines between camera types are being erased."

Quote: "The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius."

Great quote!

Shooting corporate portraits and other non-demanding stuff is one thing, the demand that you should be able to shot anything under any circumstance is another.

The later category - news and sports photographers – are what Canons and Nikons pro models are aimed at. Mirrorless are not there...

YET.

Give it a few years. Look how far the M4/3 system has come in a little over 3 years.

There might eventually be EVFs in pro cameras - for video reasons alone. But they will stick with the larger sensors and you wont see M4/3 replacing N or C at the Olympics 2016.

Mirrorless is all about portability, but for pros the end result is what matters. The larger sensors will always have advantages for light gathering and subject isolation.

It is unprofessional and a bad business decison to let portability have priority over the images.

For amateurs its another matter and personally I am very much for compact cameras. But the pros with the big DSLRs are not stupid, they just have a professional attitude.

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Crimguy
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Re: Tuck has jumped the shark
In reply to Bob Meyer, May 12, 2012

I think you make good points. IMHO Panasonic was a step ahead in the m43 realm since the G1/GH1 came out. However, I do think the E-M5 is a bit of a game changer for m43's as Tuck does. Why?

1) While the GH2 came VERY close to matching the sensor performance of APS-C cameras, it still fell apart a bit with dynamic range and high iso performance.

2) Adding weather-sealing and magnesium alloy body tells the professional photographer this camera has more than casual aspirations. The Panny GHx cameras always felt a bit flimsy in my hands and everyone is touting the build quality of the E-M5. That's important for a lot of professionals.

3) Adding two control dials, like #2, shows the camera aspires to more than casual photography.
4) The grip does the same.
4) 9FPS capability allows the machine-gun photojournalists to do their thing.

Tuck acknowledges in the comments that the camera doesn't do sports, but rightly IMHO points out that this is only one facet of professional photography.

I think it equally important to bring up the question of how it works in studio use, with multiple flash guns/zones. I really don't know the answer to this, but the professionals sure love the Nikon system, and the new Canon system looks very nice.

Someone pointed out that photojournalists need a better camera than m43 can offer at this point. I have to disagree with this. I'd say they would benefit more from a compact system. The autofocus system appears to be very fast and capable. Sports and photojournalism are two different markets.

mirrorless cameras are not replacing DSLR's any time soon. A lot of photographers have a problem with EVF's, for starters.

Nikon has shown that pdaf can be used with mirrorless cameras. When their innovation in that arena makes its way onto cameras with a larger sensor and more than just a shutter release button (Canon perhaps?), you will see a number of photographers rethink their package.

This may sound a bit counter-intuitive, but I think Olympus and/or Panasonic would be well-served by making a slightly larger camera. I'm gathering the E-M5 is just a smidgen larger than my old E-P1, which would actually be a bit too small for easy access to all controls. They need a camera that is slightly larger to accommodate more control points. Maybe the size of an OM-4, E-620, or an AE-1, with grip option etc.

Bob Meyer wrote:

He's lost all objectivity and knowledge of history when it comes to the OMD. Yes, it's a very good camera. In some ways it's better than the GH2 and G3, but in other ways it's only just caught up with what Panasonic has had for 2 years. He totally ignores Panasonic's role in driving m43 (which probably wouldn't exist today were it not for Panasonic), and Panasonic's long (relatively) history of providing near-professional class m43 cameras with lots of controls and EVFs. It's like he just woke up yesterday, discovered the OMD, and thinks Olympus is the first company to think of such a camera.

Please, Kirk, wake up and regain some objectivity. The OMD is a very good camera. It's not perfect, it can't do everything even some entry level DSLRs can do, and it's not revolutionary in the slightest. It's simply the latest evolution of an m43 design approach that's been around since the G1 and GH1.

And it's not about to displace DSLRs from their place in the market.
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PerL
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Re: Tuck has jumped the shark
In reply to Crimguy, May 12, 2012

Crimguy wrote:

I think you make good points. IMHO Panasonic was a step ahead in the m43 realm since the G1/GH1 came out. However, I do think the E-M5 is a bit of a game changer for m43's as Tuck does. Why?

1) While the GH2 came VERY close to matching the sensor performance of APS-C cameras, it still fell apart a bit with dynamic range and high iso performance.

2) Adding weather-sealing and magnesium alloy body tells the professional photographer this camera has more than casual aspirations. The Panny GHx cameras always felt a bit flimsy in my hands and everyone is touting the build quality of the E-M5. That's important for a lot of professionals.

3) Adding two control dials, like #2, shows the camera aspires to more than casual photography.
4) The grip does the same.
4) 9FPS capability allows the machine-gun photojournalists to do their thing.

Tuck acknowledges in the comments that the camera doesn't do sports, but rightly IMHO points out that this is only one facet of professional photography.

I think it equally important to bring up the question of how it works in studio use, with multiple flash guns/zones. I really don't know the answer to this, but the professionals sure love the Nikon system, and the new Canon system looks very nice.

Someone pointed out that photojournalists need a better camera than m43 can offer at this point. I have to disagree with this. I'd say they would benefit more from a compact system. The autofocus system appears to be very fast and capable. Sports and photojournalism are two different markets.

No it is not. Most photojournalist has to shot some sports - they are supposed to be able to tackle everything. When I worked at a major newspaper at least 20 percent of the work was sports.
Besides, many other assaignments include action-like shooting.

mirrorless cameras are not replacing DSLR's any time soon. A lot of photographers have a problem with EVF's, for starters.

Nikon has shown that pdaf can be used with mirrorless cameras. When their innovation in that arena makes its way onto cameras with a larger sensor and more than just a shutter release button (Canon perhaps?), you will see a number of photographers rethink their package.

This may sound a bit counter-intuitive, but I think Olympus and/or Panasonic would be well-served by making a slightly larger camera. I'm gathering the E-M5 is just a smidgen larger than my old E-P1, which would actually be a bit too small for easy access to all controls. They need a camera that is slightly larger to accommodate more control points. Maybe the size of an OM-4, E-620, or an AE-1, with grip option etc.

Bob Meyer wrote:

He's lost all objectivity and knowledge of history when it comes to the OMD. Yes, it's a very good camera. In some ways it's better than the GH2 and G3, but in other ways it's only just caught up with what Panasonic has had for 2 years. He totally ignores Panasonic's role in driving m43 (which probably wouldn't exist today were it not for Panasonic), and Panasonic's long (relatively) history of providing near-professional class m43 cameras with lots of controls and EVFs. It's like he just woke up yesterday, discovered the OMD, and thinks Olympus is the first company to think of such a camera.

Please, Kirk, wake up and regain some objectivity. The OMD is a very good camera. It's not perfect, it can't do everything even some entry level DSLRs can do, and it's not revolutionary in the slightest. It's simply the latest evolution of an m43 design approach that's been around since the G1 and GH1.

And it's not about to displace DSLRs from their place in the market.
--

Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).

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Spectacle99
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Re: Lightweight pros and heavy duty pros
In reply to PerL, May 12, 2012

While I certainly agree with you on this point re: pro news and sports, I think we all need to make a distinction between the entry-level through enthusiast APS-C DSLRS and the semi-pro and pro full-frames. Yes, I expect the serious FF market to stay pretty much where it is. But the others? I think this is where this Kirk guy (and a bunch of other people all over the web) might be on to something.

PerL wrote:

Shooting corporate portraits and other non-demanding stuff is one thing, the demand that you should be able to shot anything under any circumstance is another.

The later category - news and sports photographers – are what Canons and Nikons pro models are aimed at. Mirrorless are not there, whatever Kirk Tuck says.

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rrr_hhh
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In reply to PerL, May 12, 2012

PerL wrote:

There might eventually be EVFs in pro cameras - for video reasons alone. But they will stick with the larger sensors and you wont see M4/3 replacing N or C at the Olympics 2016.

I won't be so sure, not all pro are shooting with FF, many are using APSC sensors.

As the sensor IQ improves, it will be possible to use smaller sensors to get enough IQ and that will be the tipping point.

Mirrorless is all about portability, but for pros the end result is what matters. The larger sensors will always have advantages for light gathering and subject isolation.

It is unprofessional and a bad business decison to let portability have priority over the images.

Exactly, for pros what matters is the results and, I'd add, the effort needed to get those results. If they can get the same results with less effort, then they will use what minimize their efforts and cost, they use what is good enough not what is overkill, what allows a fast workflow and keep the client happy. They won't wear more weight than what they need.

Not all pro need subject isolation, in some cases (many cases ?) they need lot of DOF. With fast lens and noiseless shadows up to 3200, mirrorless cameras are near of a tipping point that will sway pros as well as amateurs. Pros will have other cameras of course, for when they need it, but smaller and lighter cameras will soon be part of their gear cabinets and their photo bags too.

For amateurs its another matter and personally I am very much for compact cameras. But the pros with the big DSLRs are not stupid, they just have a professional attitude.

You have preconceived ideas about pros. They will use what produce results while minimizing cost and efforts. It is a question of rentability and a cost/benefits relationship. And mirrorless cameras are almost there for them.

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nrwhitman
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Re: Kirk Tuck says OM-D is shot across the bow
In reply to SeeRoy, May 12, 2012

SeeRoy wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

. . .
Quote: "...While the world drives by in a Prius."

Here's the entire article:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.it/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

If the OMD E-M5 is a Prius amongst cameras, mine's going back on Monday...
Roy

While the Prius is not for everyone (some people need a pickup just as some need really really really thin DOF) it is an excellent mid size passenger car. My 2005 has been very reliable. 213000 miles so far and amazingly on the original set of brakes.

That said, I think the OMD compares to the Prius in the sense that it is breaking some paradigms, specifically about the performance capabilities of M43 (in particular the combination of focus speed, image quality, EVF usability, hi ISP performance and IS). In short much more capable than the first generation M43 and can go head to head with many to most APS sensor cameras. I'm as happy with my EM5 as I am with my Prius, yep own both.

Rick

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Crimguy
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Re: Tuck has jumped the shark
In reply to PerL, May 12, 2012

I wasn't aware of this, and am forced to acknowledge what you say - it's not my line of work. I see photographers who made their name in sports; others in photojournalism.

It still doesn't mean those photographers who do both would want to lug around the same camera. When I look at a football field/pitch (depending on which football you're into), I see a lot of the big boys - the Canon 1D models with monopods and massive, shiny white lenses attached. No one is de-throning them anytime soon.

But the person who has to cover stories around town? Boy I bet she'd love a capable system that doesn't force her to lug around 15 pounds of gear. Some kind of reliable focus tracking is probably necessary, though, so the photographer doesn't feel like she's risking losing a shot due to limitations of the camera.

PerL wrote:

No it is not. Most photojournalist has to shot some sports - they are supposed to be able to tackle everything. When I worked at a major newspaper at least 20 percent of the work was sports.
Besides, many other assaignments include action-like shooting.

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Olymore
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Re: Tuck has jumped the shark
In reply to Bob Meyer, May 12, 2012

I think you should read or re-read his article as you seem to have misunderstood the points he was making.

He does not own an OM-D and neither has he ordered one and he was not talking specifically about that camera but about mirrorless in general.
Not everything is a Panasonic, Olympus p* ing contest

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TrapperJohn
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Forgiving the hyperbole, he has a point
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 12, 2012

although I would personally liken the EM5 to a Lotus Elise. It's a little hotrod whose size belies its capabilities.

It's not so much the EM5 itself as it is technology creeping up on the larger sensors over the last few years. They're still better, but the performance difference has become academic.

But, the size difference remains a constant, and always will be.

What the EM5 has done is wrap these advancements in an enthusiast grade body: metal construction, weatherproofing, battery grip, classic lines. It looks like a serious camera, whereas previous M43 bodies looked like mini rangefinders or hybrids on steroids.

By coincidence, or perhaps not, the EM5 came out right at the same time as C/N released two long awaited high end FF bodies, that, under typical shooting circumstances, aren't really that much better than their predecessors. The specs look better, but in the real world, it's not that dramatic a difference.

So it's an interesting juxtaposition: the traditional 'bigger is better', vs the sleek little jewel who approaches them under most shooting circumstances, at less than 1/3 the price: $1k vs $3500, and substantially lower size and bulk.

Sort of like comparing 35mm to 135 and MF, sixty years ago.

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