Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems

Started May 11, 2012 | Discussions
dsiglin
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Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
May 11, 2012

Hey guys, just got my Hexanon 50mm 1.7 and happily threw it on my G3. However it seems that wide open it isn't getting much light and causing slow shutter speeds. I have camera set to aperture priority mode. Anyone know or can point me to a list of what settings are good for using legacy glass?

Thanks.

Domagoj Batinic
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 11, 2012

i've used my e-520 with manual lenses on set auto mode only turned af setting to mf and it always produced great results

problem with using aperture priority mode is that without electrical contacts to the lens camera doesn't know what aperture your lens is set at.

try auto mode (don't know if it's called like that on your camera) or M mode for manual lenses

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Joseph T Lewis III
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 11, 2012

Do you have the adapter control set to "Open" instead of "Lock"? I have a Rainbow Imaging adapter on my NEX-5N. It needs to be in the "Lock" position, in order for the lens' aperture control ring to function properly.

Also: I'd suggest you use Shutter priority mode instead of Av. That way you can set the aperture manually on the lens where you want it, and then vary the shutter speed so you get at least 1 / effective focal length of lens (for a Hexanon 40mm, you'd probably want to use a shutter speed of 1/80th sec or faster, unless you have very steady hands). Keep in mind the Hexanon doesn't have OIS.

Increasing or decreasing the shutter speed will result in the ISO going up / down (if you have it set to Auto ISO). Alternately, you can select the ISO you prefer, and adjust the shutter speed and aperture manually until the meter in the camera indicates a correct exposure.

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Tom

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to Joseph T Lewis III, May 11, 2012

how to do you set it to lock or open?

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to Joseph T Lewis III, May 11, 2012

I have a RainbowImaging adapter but it looks like there are a couple of versions?

This version has the lock/open:
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=309944109060811

Mine doesn't appear to:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0035UXQ44/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 11, 2012

I'm basing my assumption that something must be wrong off the 20mm 1.7 lens I have. It's the same aperture as this lens but seems to be a lot brighter.

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Domagoj Batinic
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 11, 2012

dsiglin wrote:

I'm basing my assumption that something must be wrong off the 20mm 1.7 lens I have. It's the same aperture as this lens but seems to be a lot brighter.

you can't compare 20mm lens native to your sistem to legacy lens that has no contacts to transmit aperture settings to the camera. in case of the 20mm camera knows what aperture lens is at, with legacy lens camera hasn't got a clue

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my gear:
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E-520+12-60+14-42+70-300+Sigma 105 + FL-50R+EC20
and good amount of legacy lenses (list in profile)

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Vlad S
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Oh, so much misunderstandings here...
In reply to dsiglin, May 11, 2012

dsiglin wrote:

Hey guys, just got my Hexanon 50mm 1.7 and happily threw it on my G3. However it seems that wide open it isn't getting much light and causing slow shutter speeds. I have camera set to aperture priority mode.

1. The adapter with the Lock-Open slider was for the Canon FD mount. Other mounts may not need it, it looks like Konica AR doesn't need such a slider. Minolta MD, Olympus are other examples that do not need the slider.

2. You should use either Aperture priority or Program, or Manual. The camera does not need to know what aperture you chose, it simply measure the amount of light that falls on the sensor with your aperture set. OTOH, you cannot use the Shutter priority mode, because the camera cannot adjust aperture.

3. It has been brought up before that for some older lenses and widest apertures the exposure gain does not correspond to the aperture increase. The theory was that the sensor looses efficiency when the light falls at a sharp angle. The native ยต4/3 lenses are designed in such a way that the light falls close to perpendicular to the center, are often described as "telecentric."

For example, with my Olympus FT lens, if I go from f/2.8 to f/2.0 the shutter speed goes up exactly twice, from 1/80s to 1/160. When I go from f/2.0 to f/1.4 the shutter speed goes from 1/160s to 1/250, and 1/320s would be underexposed.

If your get significantly more underexposure then please post examples with EXIF intact.

Vlad

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Vlad S
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to Domagoj Batinic, May 11, 2012

Domagoj Batinic wrote:

in case of the 20mm camera knows what aperture lens is at, with legacy lens camera hasn't got a clue

Mirrorless cameras do not need to know the aperture, they are capable of metering with the aperture stopped down. In contrast, SLRs meter with the aperture fully open, and then they stop down at the moment when the shutter opens, so they need to know how much the light will be decreased compared to the measured amount.

Vlad

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Joseph T Lewis III
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Re: Oh, so much misunderstandings here...
In reply to Vlad S, May 12, 2012

Vlad S wrote:

you cannot use the Shutter priority mode, because the camera cannot adjust aperture.

I can't speak from experience on how a G3 camera works with a legacy lens, but I can unequivocally guarantee you that S mode works just fine with NEX cameras and legacy lenses. That's my usual shooting mode. The sensor receives the light based on the manually set lens aperture, and the shutter speed. The camera can't adjust the aperture like it normally would in Av mode, so it changes the ISO value (if in Auto ISO mode) to arrive at the optimum exposure. There are many posts along these lines on the NEX forum. Having had a G1, GH1 and an LX5, I would be truly surprised if the NEX is more advanced / better than the G3 in this respect.

I just now did a test with my 5N and Canon FD 50mm lens' aperture set to 1.4, shutter set at 1/100 of a second, and the ISO set to Auto. Depending on where I pointed the camera (brightly lit living room, fairly sunny clear outdoors, dark bedroom, etc.), the ISO ranged from 250 to 1000 to 1200 to 3200.

Have you personally tried a legacy lens on a G3 with the mode set to Shutter priority, or are you just saying that you think it won't work? If the former, point goes to NEX for being a smarter camera. If the latter, I suggest that the OP give "S" mode a try.

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Tom

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Vlad S
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Re: Oh, so much misunderstandings here...
In reply to Joseph T Lewis III, May 12, 2012

Joseph T Lewis III wrote:
Vlad S wrote:

dsiglin wrote:

you cannot use the Shutter priority mode, because the camera cannot adjust aperture.

I can't speak for how a G3 camera works with a legacy lens, but I can guarantee you that S mode works just fine with the NEX cameras and legacy lenses. That's my usual shooting mode. The sensor receives the light based on the manually set lens aperture, and the shutter speed. The camera can't adjust the aperture like it normally would in Av mode, so it changes the ISO value (if in Auto ISO mode) to arrive at the optimum exposure. I would be truly surprised if the NEX is more advanced / better than the G3 in this respect.

The G3 will take a shot, but it will not vary the ISO, even with the AutoISO setting. If ISO is set to Auto it will choose 160. I believe that G1 would say "please attach lens," or something like that, but I won't vouch for that with my life.

I believe that Olympus cameras would vary ISO with a legacy lens, similar to NEX.

Have you personally tried a legacy lens on a G3 with the mode set to Shutter priority, or are you just saying how you think it will work?

Yes, I tested it.

Vlad

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Joseph T Lewis III
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Re: Oh, so much misunderstandings here...
In reply to Vlad S, May 12, 2012

Hi Vlad

I apologize if I came across as snarky; I was just trying to help the OP. For whatever reason I wasn't even aware of the fact that you could put legacy lenses on an MFT camera (probably because they have so many nice native lenses available to choose from) while I had the G1 and GH1.

So, I had no hands on experience with legacy lenses till I got the NEX last fall, and found that due to the limited E-mount lens lineup, NEX owners use a lOT of legacy lenses. I assumed that if the NEX worked with S mode and a legacy lens, the Pany cameras would as well, since they are in many respects more advanced than the Sonys.

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Vlad S
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No prob! (nt)
In reply to Joseph T Lewis III, May 12, 2012

Joseph T Lewis III wrote:

Hi Vlad

I apologize if I came across as snarky; I was just trying to help the OP. For whatever reason I wasn't even aware of the fact that you could put legacy lenses on an MFT camera (probably because they have so many nice native lenses available to choose from) while I had the G1 and GH1.

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 12, 2012

Just returned from testing the lens. Time frame was from right before dusk to right after. I did notice the lens is soft wide open which most of these, if not all of them, are shot at. Going down to 2.0 or 2.8 helped out. The EXF or whatever you call it data should still be in there. It doesn't report the aperture though since it can't know what it is. I set the camera to aperture mode to take photos and had auto ISO engaged.

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 12, 2012

btw - note the photo of the cookies and the red "grain" thing going through the photo near the top. Any idea what that is?

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Vlad S
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 12, 2012

They all seem reasonably exposed to me.

dsiglin wrote:

btw - note the photo of the cookies and the red "grain" thing going through the photo near the top. Any idea what that is?

I see a series of reddish stripes. My first guess would be they are caused by the light source. What sort of lamp was it?

Vlad

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to Vlad S, May 12, 2012

Sadly I'm not sure, most likely halogen. It was in the case with the food.

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kernow
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 12, 2012

I don't know if it matters on m4/3 but when using Hexanons on 4/3 it helps to have a smaller diameter rear baffle otherwise the sensor and metering is messed up by light reflections from the rear element of the lens. It also seems to improve contrast. BTW, the 50/1.7 is one of the sharpest if not the sharpest 50mm available.
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Oll an gwella,
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Mingjai
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to dsiglin, May 12, 2012

dsiglin wrote:

btw - note the photo of the cookies and the red "grain" thing going through the photo near the top. Any idea what that is?

I'm guessing it's a fluorescent and your shutter speed was such that caught less than a full wavelength of light. In the USA, AC power is at 60hz so fluorescent lights flicker from full amplitude to zero back to full amplitude every 1/120s. Therefore, to capture at least a peak to peak wavelength, you need to have a shutter speed longer than than 1/120s. You were at 1/320s, so you only caught a portion of the wave.

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dsiglin
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Re: Hexanon on a G3 - possible problems
In reply to kernow, May 12, 2012

Is there a way to do do this?

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