Has the DSLR finally been eclipsed? Kirk's take.

Started May 11, 2012 | Discussions
sderdiarian
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Has the DSLR finally been eclipsed? Kirk's take.
May 11, 2012

Kirk Tuck makes a pretty good case in this article on the impact of the OM-D on the status quo:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.fr/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html
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Re: Has the DSLR finally been eclipsed? Kirk's take.
In reply to sderdiarian, May 11, 2012

Good read.

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Raist3d
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I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to sderdiarian, May 11, 2012

So apparently to Kirk Tuck there's not much to shooting an APS-C or FF camera for professional work over an OMD. I am sorry but that's just BS.

He also decries that those who go for the FF cameras is because they are too scared of change. Please. How about true and tried workflows that need to carry on that are reliable to bring the cash in?

OH, where's the pc-sync for the EM5? And the battery life?

What about ergonomics? You know the kind of thing that can really get in the way of your work when you are using the camera day in and day out? Is an EM5 oh so equal or better than a Nikon D800 for a studio? Really?

Oh yeah, should professional throw away all their thousands of dollars in lenses and buy the latest camera du-jour? Even Kirk Tuck has contradictory posts about the EM5- so much for his post about staying out of Gear Acquisition.

A lot of professionals would simply keep using what's been working for them in the last 2 years and skip a D800 because maybe, just maybe they don't need it. Just like they don't need to buy an EM5.

The sport photographer is all good and peachy with the EM5 EVF slight lag vs an OVF? (all EVF's still have this).

I think there are some points there, but I think it's all very clouded by a unilateral view of a brand and camera model.

Not so long ago he posted something criticizing the hype behind the EM5, but now it's all love. Kinda weird if you ask me.

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Haris
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Re: I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

What is a bit fanboyist? A post from a fulltime pro who is using the tool (read camera system/brand) that he needs for the certain job or a post from a pro-wannaee who just can't stand the fact that his predicton about EM-5 failure has apparently failed big time and just have to use his energy to keep the trash-talk going on.

It is just an opinion from someone who probably has you and most of people here in a fingernail when it comes to photography. No need to use strong words as BS or is that the normal level after you used the f-word a while ago efter you were asking from people to use their brain since you use it often?!
You really are on your high horse..

Btw. I am surprised that you didn't mention your loving K-5 and its incredible DR in this post.

Raist3d wrote:

So apparently to Kirk Tuck there's not much to shooting an APS-C or FF camera for professional work over an OMD. I am sorry but that's just BS.

He also decries that those who go for the FF cameras is because they are too scared of change. Please. How about true and tried workflows that need to carry on that are reliable to bring the cash in?

OH, where's the pc-sync for the EM5? And the battery life?

What about ergonomics? You know the kind of thing that can really get in the way of your work when you are using the camera day in and day out? Is an EM5 oh so equal or better than a Nikon D800 for a studio? Really?

Oh yeah, should professional throw away all their thousands of dollars in lenses and buy the latest camera du-jour? Even Kirk Tuck has contradictory posts about the EM5- so much for his post about staying out of Gear Acquisition.

A lot of professionals would simply keep using what's been working for them in the last 2 years and skip a D800 because maybe, just maybe they don't need it. Just like they don't need to buy an EM5.

The sport photographer is all good and peachy with the EM5 EVF slight lag vs an OVF? (all EVF's still have this).

I think there are some points there, but I think it's all very clouded by a unilateral view of a brand and camera model.

Not so long ago he posted something criticizing the hype behind the EM5, but now it's all love. Kinda weird if you ask me.

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Jolly Oly
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Re: I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to Haris, May 11, 2012

Haris wrote:

Btw. I am surprised that you didn't mention your loving K-5 and its incredible DR in this post.

Agree. As much as I love to read what Ricardo have to say, after the release of the EM-5 he went berserk.
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TrapperJohn
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It looks like a serious camera, or a revival of the 'E300 effect'
In reply to sderdiarian, May 11, 2012

Remember the E300? The first low cost E series, but people balked at the unusual shape. Oly redesigned the body into the more dslr style E500, but otherwise the two were identical, and the E500 was a smash hit. Apparently, the camera world wasn't ready for an unconventional looking dslr at that time.

That may be happening again. The best M43 bodies, including the EP3, GH2, G3, GX1, are pretty decent tools... if you can get the enthusiast to look at them. But, the mini rangefinders look like toys, while the G and GH series look like those little dslr wannabe hybrids.

The OMD looks like a serious camera. It has the lovely OM styling, it has all metal construction and weathersealing, and it has a battery grip, just like a real camera. And that may well have led many serious enthusiasts and pros to actually give it a first look. It's that first look that's the hardest to get - once there, yes it actually performs quite well.

One inadvertent advantage of M43 over Nikon One and NEX is - it has 'micro' in the name, which clues the uneducated in as to what the system is for. What is NEX, what is One? Micro Four Thirds - that has to be small. Could be why a lot of people are referring to any mirrorless system as a 'micro four thirds' camera, which must have the Sony marketers gnashing their teeth. A tiny detail, but an essential one.

So I'd guess that Olympus tried for one effect with the OMD, only to inadvertenly break a barrier that no one had really noticed was there. Probably luck, but some times that's what it takes.

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highyoyo
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I think you missed the point
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

He is not extolling the EM5 above all cameras and did not even say he would buy one - however he sees it as a harbinger of the future.

The EVF is the direction we're headed and offers advantages now over the OVF in many situations and when the technology matures will equal or eclipse it. Not quite there yet, but soon.

As to your point about sports photography - he specifically says it is not there yet.

He speaks of the EM5 not as a fanboy but in the context of change.

If you read his blog you will know that he has most recently been using Sony equipment - not the EM5 and has no reason to change at this point - just for the sake of change or fanboydom.

He is also looking forward to the upcoming products from Panasonic.

I think his analysis is balanced and informative.

As to your point about flash synch, you might read his posts on LED lighting vs. the traditional lighting approach - or maybe even buy his book on it!

The point I take from this and the other related posts is that our way of taking pictures is now more fully embracing the digital technology paradigm because of advances in the EVF and other technologies - whereas previously we have been using a new technology with a old, film approach.

This happens with all such technology changes.

We are now at a turning point where we can truly start to change how we actually create images.

Read some more of Kirk's blogs and you'll see what he encourages us to do is not buy this camera or that camera but to learn form the photographers and artists of the past, combine that with the new technology, and create a new "vision".

The new equipment is just a tool to achieve this and not an end to itself.

There are a lot of people who "talk the talk" but I appreciate that Kirk as a professional photographer is also "walking the walk".

I look forward to reading his blog everyday not for technical reviews but for perspective.

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Raist3d
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Re: I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to Haris, May 11, 2012

Haris wrote:

What is a bit fanboyist? A post from a fulltime pro who is using the tool (read camera system/brand) that he needs for the certain job or a post from a pro-wannaee who just can't stand the fact that his predicton about EM-5 failure has apparently failed big time and just have to use his energy to keep the trash-talk going on.

Are you suggesting that I predicted the EM-5 would be a failure? Oh wait, you are not suggesting I am a pro-wannabee but in case you are, did you miss not the one, two or three but more than four times I said I expected the EM-5 to sell out and that it seemed Olympus best model in a while? Did you miss those times I posted that?

I predicted the EM5 Would most likely sell out over two months ago. Did you miss that?

LOL! Seriously, that right there shows a big problem for you. You have the wrong impression.

You may also want to get a bit more informed and read this:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2012/02/small-camera-ive-been-playing-with.html

And do tell me, read that post and read the latest about the OMD, and tell me that you can't spot something is off.

It is just an opinion from someone who probably has you and most of people here in a fingernail when it comes to photography.

I am not going to compare the photography level, but I sure can compare what seems to be the logical/contradictory level. Get more informed and read the link I posted.

No need to use strong words as BS or is that the normal level after you used the f-word a while ago efter you were asking from people to use their brain since you use it often?!

Oh yes, I do ask people to use their brain. Go ahead and read that link. Oh keep in mind you just falsely accused me of predicting the EM5 would be failure. I predicted the complete opposite!

You really are on your high horse..

Yes, I am sure, as evidenced by your slanderous accusation.

Btw. I am surprised that you didn't mention your loving K-5 and its incredible DR in this post.

Aha! And that should ring a bell for you, that maybe, just perhaps, your entire perception about me could be maybe, just a little, wrong?

Didn't you know, I like many things about the EM5? Or like many you already have a wrong preconceived idea and filter the "good posts?"

Raist3d wrote:

So apparently to Kirk Tuck there's not much to shooting an APS-C or FF camera for professional work over an OMD. I am sorry but that's just BS.

He also decries that those who go for the FF cameras is because they are too scared of change. Please. How about true and tried workflows that need to carry on that are reliable to bring the cash in?

OH, where's the pc-sync for the EM5? And the battery life?

What about ergonomics? You know the kind of thing that can really get in the way of your work when you are using the camera day in and day out? Is an EM5 oh so equal or better than a Nikon D800 for a studio? Really?

Oh yeah, should professional throw away all their thousands of dollars in lenses and buy the latest camera du-jour? Even Kirk Tuck has contradictory posts about the EM5- so much for his post about staying out of Gear Acquisition.

A lot of professionals would simply keep using what's been working for them in the last 2 years and skip a D800 because maybe, just maybe they don't need it. Just like they don't need to buy an EM5.

The sport photographer is all good and peachy with the EM5 EVF slight lag vs an OVF? (all EVF's still have this).

I think there are some points there, but I think it's all very clouded by a unilateral view of a brand and camera model.

Not so long ago he posted something criticizing the hype behind the EM5, but now it's all love. Kinda weird if you ask me.

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Raist3d
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Re: I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to Jolly Oly, May 11, 2012

Jolly Oly wrote:

Haris wrote:

Btw. I am surprised that you didn't mention your loving K-5 and its incredible DR in this post.

Agree. As much as I love to read what Ricardo have to say, after the release of the EM-5 he went berserk.

How exactly did I go berserk? I have mentioned many positive aspects to the camera. So much that I have considered selling my Pentax stuff and buying one, to not have two cameras.

The only thing I have mentioned that is "bad" I guess is that yes, the K-5 does better sensor wise than the EM5. This isn't because of brands, it's simple factual truth. Even then I have consistently said, the EM5 would suffice for most of the stuff I do with the fast primes. Where exactly did I go berserk?

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Raist3d
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Re: I think you missed the point
In reply to highyoyo, May 11, 2012

Go ahead and read this, and the latest post:

http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2012/02/small-camera-ive-been-playing-with.html

and tell me something doesn´t seem a bit off.

I have no problem him pointing out that there could be a change. But the entire post reads like the change is like surely towards a particular brand and model while making some rather weird points- like the reason that pro's don't go for something like the EM5 is because "they are scared." Come on.

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RoelHendrickx
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Amidst the (tech/marketing) speculation, one quote worth framing
In reply to sderdiarian, May 11, 2012

I don't know about the rest, but here's (for me) the most important quote from that text
(and then especially the first part) :

Tuck said:

Once professional photographers catch up they will return to the time honored marketing tradition of selling their personal vision instead of their technical inventory. At that point they'll consider the same cameras that their hobbyist counterparts are embracing today. And for all the same reasons.

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Raist3d
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I find that actually
In reply to RoelHendrickx, May 11, 2012

a bit too patronizing and condescending of him.

A lot of the pros I hear, sell their vision and are hired for it. They are not being hired for using D800's and Canon's EOS 5D Mark III's.

So now with the EM5 and the rest, it is now, that photogrpahers will focus on their vision and not on equipment. Really? And what is all the talk on the Sony, Canon, Pens (best camera ever, no need to buy anything else), no wait that's the G3. NO actually it's the EM5 now-> that Kirk himself has been posting in his blog.

Don't believe me. Read the blog past posts.

I don't know but seems like something is off- and it ain't me.

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Pikme
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Raist, he didn't say any of that
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

Maybe in a few days when you have calmed down you might be able to read what he actually wrote.

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Pikme
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Re: I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to Jolly Oly, May 11, 2012

Jolly Oly wrote:

As much as I love to read what Ricardo have to say, after the release of the EM-5 he went berserk.

He's always been berserk. He has a right to his opinions, but his self proclaimed 'expert' status has always been beyond annoying. As in professing to be more knowledgeable about professional photographers than an actual professional photographer.

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TrapperJohn
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Just because it's smaller
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

doesn't mean that people won't get wrapped up in the technical details. Go look at the smartphone forums some time - if you dare.

Pro following amateur has happened before. When 35mm first rose to popularity, it was amateurs leading the charge. The pros were all using the really big iron - Speed Graphic, Horseman, even wet plate... until they found they could use this 35mm to get more with less.

I think Kirk is just a bit dazzled with this little jewel. I sure was. Hard to put my finger on exactly what it is, but when you first pick up and use an EM5, it tends to invoke an almost childlike sense of wonder and amazement, that exceeds what the actual advancements are. He'll calm down after a couple of weeks of use, only he doesn't have one yet... oh dear, that'll bring up yet another childhood experience -waiting for Christmas.

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RoelHendrickx
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Re: I find that actually
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

Raist3d wrote:

a bit too patronizing and condescending of him.

What I think he means, is that in the digital age and the democratisation of photography (and high-performance equipment), emphasis has shifted a bit towards the gear as the main focus in photography. But how does a pro distinguish himself?

It used to be : by owning and using the better camera (this better camera was not "simpler", but more difficult, in that it required skill in operation, thus naturally a way to show of the skills that people using compacts did not put into practice).

Now that making (technically) good photos is becoming more and more accessible for everyone (just put your whatever camera on P mode and use face recognition for focus..., as a matter of speaking), the pro must again distinguish himself much more by skill and vision. As in : give me the lowliest camera you can imagine and I will still create images that are more engrossing than anything the average Joe makes with his SLR or mirrorless system or high-end compact.

I think part of the reason why things like Hipstamatic and Instagram are slowly showing up in serious photojournalism, is just that : those are pros showing off that they can create great images full of vision with the most modest of means.

A lot of the pros I hear, sell their vision and are hired for it. They are not being hired for using D800's and Canon's EOS 5D Mark III's.

Agree : that is how it should be. But being hired as a pro is easier if you reassure the client's confidence by showing up with big expensive gear.

So now with the EM5 and the rest, it is now, that photogrpahers will focus on their vision and not on equipment. Really? And what is all the talk on the Sony, Canon, Pens (best camera ever, no need to buy anything else), no wait that's the G3. NO actually it's the EM5 now-> that Kirk himself has been posting in his blog.

Don't believe me. Read the blog past posts.

I don't know but seems like something is off- and it ain't me.

You are right that he is inconsistent.

But I still like that quote, because it resonates with how I WANT the image of pro photography to be...

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Jay Jenner
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Re: Has the DSLR finally been eclipsed? Kirk's take.
In reply to sderdiarian, May 11, 2012

I thinks its quite a good article and he makes good points. So what if he is not rushing out to buy one? You cannot buy every great photographic tool that turns up.

I have not seen one in the flesh yet and am looking forward to soon - not that I can afford to replace my E3 and all its lenses - and until some new fast zooms are available in m4/3 I am not in too much of a hurry - but very interested.

but, from his article.......

"The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation.. While the world drives by in a Prius. "

Well, I'll never drive a Pious. Give me the Firebird any day! - I want to have some fun whilst driving, not just get from A to B

"Or, are you still using your Motorola Brick cellphone instead of an iPhone?"

No. I use a modern phone. But I embrace new technology when its right to do so and it suits me.

Cheers all.

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chopsteeks
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Re: I am sorry but I find this a bit fanboyist ridiculous
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

The person who wrote that article is more skilled in utilizing the tool in his hands than you can.......this is obvious.

Raist3d wrote:

So apparently to Kirk Tuck there's not much to shooting an APS-C or FF camera for professional work over an OMD. I am sorry but that's just BS.

He also decries that those who go for the FF cameras is because they are too scared of change. Please. How about true and tried workflows that need to carry on that are reliable to bring the cash in?

OH, where's the pc-sync for the EM5? And the battery life?

What about ergonomics? You know the kind of thing that can really get in the way of your work when you are using the camera day in and day out? Is an EM5 oh so equal or better than a Nikon D800 for a studio? Really?

Oh yeah, should professional throw away all their thousands of dollars in lenses and buy the latest camera du-jour? Even Kirk Tuck has contradictory posts about the EM5- so much for his post about staying out of Gear Acquisition.

A lot of professionals would simply keep using what's been working for them in the last 2 years and skip a D800 because maybe, just maybe they don't need it. Just like they don't need to buy an EM5.

The sport photographer is all good and peachy with the EM5 EVF slight lag vs an OVF? (all EVF's still have this).

I think there are some points there, but I think it's all very clouded by a unilateral view of a brand and camera model.

Not so long ago he posted something criticizing the hype behind the EM5, but now it's all love. Kinda weird if you ask me.

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highyoyo
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Re: I think you missed the point
In reply to Raist3d, May 11, 2012

OK - here's from the post you referenced - http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2012/02/small-camera-ive-been-playing-with.html

The bottom line? I don't know that there is a bottom line. The camera world is a chaotic place with little camps swirling around banners. In one corner we have the full frame 35mm high res contingent for whom everything hinges on ultimate resolution and sharpness. We have, of course, our micro four thirds camp where we look to blend high performance with high usability and high portability (after all, what good is all the gear if it's too cumbersome to carry?). We have the pilgrims of nose bleed performance who have knotted the ropes of high intention around their photo vest frocks and set out into the desert in pursuit of the mysteries of medium format, and we have the legions of people traipsing around willy-nilly with their iPhones snapping a glorious quantity of interesting frames and then shoving them through the kaleidoscopic blender to make them more.....appealing.

I've been beaten over the head with the idea that there is no "right or wrong." That all approaches are worthy and equal. That there's an equivalence of sorts whether you use an 8x10 inch film camera or your happy-snappy phone to create your images. While I tend to veer toward a more defined philosophy where effort has value and is integral to the process I won't confuse things by arguing that today.

...

The G3 is no OM-D but it's a hell of a lot closer than a lot of people might like to believe. I think I'll go out and shoot with mine again today. After all, it's already in my hands.

And the conclusion from the post under discussion - http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2012/05/why-i-think-olympus-om-d-em-5-is-making.html

The OM-D is the lighting rod. It's the shot over the bow that says this (the sector) is both good enough and, in many ways, better. The real alternative? Big ass medium format. But that's a whole nother blog.

The traditional, big DSLR? Quickly becoming the Firebird Trans Am of an older generation. Wearing their Members Only jackets and revving up their engines... While the world drives by in a Prius. Or, are you still using your Motorola Brick cellphone instead of an iPhone?

Finally, everyone I know has asked if I have an OMD, if I have one on order, if I'm getting one from somewhere. And if not, when? The reality is that while I like the camera just fine and would love to own one I'm intrigued by rumors of a new Panasonic GH3. I'm still having fun with the Sony's and I'm in no rush. It's all fun.

Sorry but I don't see the bias toward a brand or any fanboy attitude unless it is for a direction and not a brand and I do not see inconsistency or "fishiness" in these posts.

I know it is the political season, but you need to look at the body of work and not just a few things out of context.

Argue about the ideas or conclusions rather than the motivation for them.

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erichK
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Roel...
In reply to RoelHendrickx, May 11, 2012

Like many others, I've mostly stopped bothering with DPReview because of the obsessive posting of such as Ricardo. But I want to agree with and you and support with some simple experiences that completely confirm Kirk's point.

It's good to remember that in the age of the Nikon F2 and the Canon F1 that the most popular professional photographer tool was the Nikon FM or the Canon AE-1. Both were small, light and capable. Neither were originally aimed at professionals but were quickly adopted for many of the same reasons m4:3rds is in ascendency today: Smaller, lighter, easier to use, cheaper and just as good image quality.

With one or two newspaper-pool-camera using exceptions, the professionals I know seldom use the big guns from N or C, even if they own them or have access to them. Indeed, one, a much exhibited art photographer professional medical photographer and photography lecturer most recently used decent Nikon P&S for images for a book on coffee shops and their culture. Another, an internationally exhibited photojournalist who is now the Photo Editor for a large US city newspaper not only eschews the big pool cameras, but has replace the Nikon D90 he used to carry along the best camera cell-phone he could find, because it was lighter and quicker for images and photos of transitory events.

The Leica redefined photography because it was small and light- easy to carry and unobtrusive. Cartier-Bresson would slip it out if his pocket to take his timeless picture; E. Eugene Smith would have as many as five of them - with different lenses and films - dangling from him as he quietly assembled his magnificent photo essays.

Truly talented photographers, like other artists, will use whatever tool will best do the job. Kirk's point is quite simply that cameras like the OM-D - of which it is likely the most capable, at the moment - are, like those early Leicas, the crest of a wave that will sweep photography because, in most cases, they can do all, or almost all that the much larger, heavier, more imposing "pro" cameras of today can.

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erichK
saskatoon, canada

Photography is a small voice, at best, but sometimes one photograph, or a group of them, can lure our sense of awareness.

  • W. Eugene Smith, Dec 30, 1918 to Oct 15, 1978.

http://erichk.zenfolio.com/

http://www.fototime.com/inv/7F3D846BCD301F3

underwater photos:
http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/5567

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