My full review of the new X2 is up!

Started May 11, 2012 | Discussions
Ming Thein
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Re: Ming the Merciful
In reply to Wellington100, May 11, 2012

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

Name calling is both rude and uncalled for.

Wellington100 wrote:

You are being very generous about a camera that for its price point should excel or at the very least equal the competition. Leica is known for premium products at premium prices.

This camera has not kept up to date with the state of play in the premium compact sector. In some ways it is already three years out of date. Why on earth would anyone buy it when the Canon G1X is available for far less money and is better in every way.

I hope Leica have something else up their sleeves, this camera is a non event.
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Ming Thein
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It doesn't fit.
In reply to krugorg, May 11, 2012

From what I understand from the local dealers here, the OM-Ds are selling in droves, but they haven't moved more than a small handful of G1x cameras. Even the X-Pro seems to be widely available - but that could be because of better stock availability than popularity.

No idea about X1/X2 sales.

krugorg wrote:

Wellington100 wrote:

jimr wrote:

Wellington100 wrote:

You are being very generous about a camera that for its price point should excel or at the very least equal the competition. Leica is known for premium products at premium prices.

This camera has not kept up to date with the state of play in the premium compact sector. In some ways it is already three years out of date. Why on earth would anyone buy it when the Canon G1X is available for far less money and is better in every way.

The Canon G1X has the IQ of a DSLR but the responsiveness of an average point and shoot that costs hundreds of dollars less than it does.

From what Ming says, the Leica's focusing speeds are adequate. Yes the G1X has inadequate focusing and that is its achilles heel. If Canon address that 1 issue, the camera will represent excellent value and will dominate this rarified sector of large sensor compacts.

The G1X image quality is impressive given the sensor size, but it will not perform as well as the X2 on IQ (nor will it match the IQ of the GXR or X100). The G1X also has overall performance and responsiveness issues (e.g. shutter lag) and it really isn't all that compact. I realize it has a zoom, but I don't know why I would want to leave the house with it versus an E-M5, for example. I think you bring up a good point on value, but I just don't know where the G1X fits in here.

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Ming Thein
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Thanks! nt
In reply to ravinj, May 11, 2012

ravinj wrote:

Ming - Excellent review and thanks for the wonderful pictures too! The B&W conversions on your site are superb. I like your reviews and appreciate your effort in producing the best quality pictures from a camera which show what it is capable of in the right hands, unlike some other reviewers/sites who are simply too lazy to do that.

Having owned the X1 (now sold to fund my M9), I can say that it was the best of the best in that size/weight category. The near silent shutter and small size coupled with excellent imagery cannot be beat. I am sure the X2 is better.

Also enjoyed your D800/S2 comparison.

Keep up the good work.

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Ming Thein
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Tilting screens and 90deg EVFs...
In reply to Berg Na, May 11, 2012

...make such moments easier to capture because they increase your stealth factor. The 90deg EVF was used for that shot. It's still a bit obvious because you have to put the camera to your eye, though. I prefer a flip/ tilt screen, if given a choice. Still, better than nothing at all.

Berg Na wrote:

Thanks Ming for your review of the X2 which was written from a photographer's viewpoint. I especially enjoyed the sample photos you took - the capture of the yawning guy was a good example of hitting the 'decisive moment'...

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Ming Thein
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Re: Agree, it's a tough playing field.
In reply to snake_b, May 11, 2012

Sure, I'm telling you about how the gear performs in my experience as a commercial photographer. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't pay the bills and gets tossed pretty damn quickly. What you find important may be different, and I'm not questioning that. A forum is about sharing opinions and getting information. If you disagree, that's fine, but there's no need to be hostile about it - especially after it's taken two days of unpaid work to get this review out.

snake_b wrote:

Wait, this isn't a gear forum where people talk about the gear and the specs and how things perform?

brudy wrote:

You seem to like to engage in flamewars and come across as having an axe to grind. The OP is being very reasonable and you just keep attacking despite his having addressed your points and stated his neutrality on brands and cameras. Why do you care so much?

snake_b wrote:

This is an utterly poor argument. I've had my share of flamewars against the hipsters of the X100 forum, but yours is equally poor. Here, as well as in the news comments.

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Ming Thein
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Agreed...
In reply to ravinj, May 11, 2012

This is one of the things I'm battling with on the D800E - it seems that a different set of lenses is needed to get the most out of the camera, and those are often quite surprising choices. Matching lenses to sensors is something that has to be taken increasing seriously as the demands of the sensors increase.

The more I shoot with the X2, the more I feel that whilst the 24/2.8 was an excellent match for the X1 at every aperture, it's a little bit soft at f2.8 on the X2. By f4 it's back on song.

Another excellent pairing - from the limited samples I've seen - is the Pentax 40mm 'super pancake' and K-01.

ravinj wrote:

A DSLR and a Zeiss lens can obviously produce good photos. The point about X1/X2 is excellent quality in a small size. If size is irrelevant then there are other excellent choices. My Zeiss 24mm ZA weighs a ton. Adding my now sold Sony A850 produced a tank that was capable of stunning results. My X1 was lighter and smaller and produced comparable output.

MTF charts do not tell the whole story. The way a sensor/lens combination renders is most important.

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krugorg
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Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

Thanks for the interesting hands-on and great images!

Quick question - did you have a Olympus VF2 to see if that would work on the X2?

Might be interesting for those that already had the Oly viewfinder, or wanted to save a bit of money.

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snake_b
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Re: Ming the Merciful
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

Pretty bold claim.

Ming Thein wrote:

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

Name calling is both rude and uncalled for.

Wellington100 wrote:

You are being very generous about a camera that for its price point should excel or at the very least equal the competition. Leica is known for premium products at premium prices.

This camera has not kept up to date with the state of play in the premium compact sector. In some ways it is already three years out of date. Why on earth would anyone buy it when the Canon G1X is available for far less money and is better in every way.

I hope Leica have something else up their sleeves, this camera is a non event.
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Ming Thein
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I've shot with enough of them to be able to make it.
In reply to snake_b, May 11, 2012

I suggest you get some proof if only to satisfy yourself.

snake_b wrote:
Pretty bold claim.

Ming Thein wrote:

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

Name calling is both rude and uncalled for.

Wellington100 wrote:

You are being very generous about a camera that for its price point should excel or at the very least equal the competition. Leica is known for premium products at premium prices.

This camera has not kept up to date with the state of play in the premium compact sector. In some ways it is already three years out of date. Why on earth would anyone buy it when the Canon G1X is available for far less money and is better in every way.

I hope Leica have something else up their sleeves, this camera is a non event.
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Priaptor
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Ming, what your review shows,
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

is you are an awesome photographer.

Let people flame and troll, but it is obvious you get results that 99% of the FUJI, Nikon and Canon set could only hope for with their so called "cheaper rigs".

Personally, I had an X1, enjoyed it, but was always asking myself, why am I using it instead of my M9-50 Summilux combination, so I sold my X1. Not because I was displeased with the images, which were wonderful, I just didn't find the need for it.

Thanks for the straight forward and honest opinion and most of all thanks for sharing those fantastic images.

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Ming Thein
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No problem.
In reply to krugorg, May 11, 2012

Sorry, nope, I don't have a VF2 handy. Didn't buy one for my Pen Mini because it made the whole thing unwieldy (and I prefer to use it with a thumbsup), and my recently acquired OM-D obviously already has an EVF.

krugorg wrote:

Thanks for the interesting hands-on and great images!

Quick question - did you have a Olympus VF2 to see if that would work on the X2?

Might be interesting for those that already had the Oly viewfinder, or wanted to save a bit of money.

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Ming Thein
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Thank you.
In reply to Priaptor, May 11, 2012

Whatever I review, I use the tools in my workflow to get the best possible images out of the camera - because at the end of the day, this is how I shoot, and this is how I make my living. If it doesn't work, then I don't use it - that simple.

Granted, with work, it's possible to make anything look like anything else, but if the raw material isn't there, you can't make it work.

I got great results out of the X100 but had to work for it and work around the camera; this cost me shots. There are some cameras which have lower image quality potential - like the Ricoh GRD-III - and require more work to get the same level of results - but I still use them because they are good enough, but above all, I enjoy using them. And that's not something that can be said of every camera. The NEX-5 is a good example: image quality potential is high, but it's not a very photographer-friendly camera. Another good example is macro work with an M9, but let's not even go there...fortunately the D800E excels at this and is friendly to use.

Ming

Priaptor wrote:

is you are an awesome photographer.

Let people flame and troll, but it is obvious you get results that 99% of the FUJI, Nikon and Canon set could only hope for with their so called "cheaper rigs".

Personally, I had an X1, enjoyed it, but was always asking myself, why am I using it instead of my M9-50 Summilux combination, so I sold my X1. Not because I was displeased with the images, which were wonderful, I just didn't find the need for it.

Thanks for the straight forward and honest opinion and most of all thanks for sharing those fantastic images.

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tinpusher
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Re: It doesn't fit.
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

Ming Thein wrote:

From what I understand from the local dealers here, the OM-Ds are selling in droves, but they haven't moved more than a small handful of G1x cameras. Even the X-Pro seems to be widely available - but that could be because of better stock availability than popularity.

No idea about X1/X2 sales.

I'm sure that G1X sales are slow given the qualified reviews and high price although I was quick to buy one. As an X1 owner , I had hoped that the X2 would have contained a similar lens to that in the G1X but .. hey ho .. Leica are playing the branding game again time for the red dot lovers to fill the coffers.

I read some nonsense about the slow Canon AF and its comparable IQ.

Compared to my X1 with firmware v2.0 my Canon focuses more quickly and as for IQ - the Canon RAW files are up there with the Leica files although maybe a tad more resolution.
Surely an X2 with a small tele would have been possible.

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snake_b
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Re: Agree, it's a tough playing field.
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

Maybe then you should stop "reviewing" if it takes away from your paid work.

Ming Thein wrote:

Sure, I'm telling you about how the gear performs in my experience as a commercial photographer. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't pay the bills and gets tossed pretty damn quickly. What you find important may be different, and I'm not questioning that. A forum is about sharing opinions and getting information. If you disagree, that's fine, but there's no need to be hostile about it - especially after it's taken two days of unpaid work to get this review out.

snake_b wrote:

Wait, this isn't a gear forum where people talk about the gear and the specs and how things perform?

brudy wrote:

You seem to like to engage in flamewars and come across as having an axe to grind. The OP is being very reasonable and you just keep attacking despite his having addressed your points and stated his neutrality on brands and cameras. Why do you care so much?

snake_b wrote:

This is an utterly poor argument. I've had my share of flamewars against the hipsters of the X100 forum, but yours is equally poor. Here, as well as in the news comments.

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tinpusher
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Re: Ming the Merciful
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

Ming Thein wrote:

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

When the X1 was introduced the lens did produce exceptional results for the type of camera it was. Even today the lens can create images that feel almost 3-dimensional and there is a smooth cool look about the best shots.

Then came the Fuji X100 which produces equal shots at f2.8 > with gorgeous colours and smooth look but still full of detail.

Now we come to Canon with their G1X. It's not fast but boy is it sharp almost throughout the entire range. JPEG Colours don't quite match Fuji or Leica but the flexibility of the short tele makes up for that.

For IQ I don't think anyone of these cameras excels the others.
Each is excelllent in its own way and that's why I own all of them.

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dutchtrumpet
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Re: Agree, it's a tough playing field.
In reply to snake_b, May 11, 2012

You don't seem like a very nice person.

snake_b wrote:
Maybe then you should stop "reviewing" if it takes away from your paid work.

Ming Thein wrote:

Sure, I'm telling you about how the gear performs in my experience as a commercial photographer. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't pay the bills and gets tossed pretty damn quickly. What you find important may be different, and I'm not questioning that. A forum is about sharing opinions and getting information. If you disagree, that's fine, but there's no need to be hostile about it - especially after it's taken two days of unpaid work to get this review out.

snake_b wrote:

Wait, this isn't a gear forum where people talk about the gear and the specs and how things perform?

brudy wrote:

You seem to like to engage in flamewars and come across as having an axe to grind. The OP is being very reasonable and you just keep attacking despite his having addressed your points and stated his neutrality on brands and cameras. Why do you care so much?

snake_b wrote:

This is an utterly poor argument. I've had my share of flamewars against the hipsters of the X100 forum, but yours is equally poor. Here, as well as in the news comments.

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Ming Thein
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Re: It doesn't fit.
In reply to tinpusher, May 11, 2012

The X1 even with 2.0 was slow. I sold mine.

I've been telling anybody who'll listen about the potential for an X-camera with a 50mm or longer equivalent, but it seems it's fallen on deaf ears. That focal length (separation), that sensor and the 1/2000s flash sync with the leaf shutter opens up a lot of creative possibilities - things that can't easily be done with other cameras.

How do you find IQ on the G1x? I'm curious, but not curious enough to buy one (since nobody locally will lend me one to review).

tinpusher wrote:

Ming Thein wrote:

From what I understand from the local dealers here, the OM-Ds are selling in droves, but they haven't moved more than a small handful of G1x cameras. Even the X-Pro seems to be widely available - but that could be because of better stock availability than popularity.

No idea about X1/X2 sales.

I'm sure that G1X sales are slow given the qualified reviews and high price although I was quick to buy one. As an X1 owner , I had hoped that the X2 would have contained a similar lens to that in the G1X but .. hey ho .. Leica are playing the branding game again time for the red dot lovers to fill the coffers.

I read some nonsense about the slow Canon AF and its comparable IQ.

Compared to my X1 with firmware v2.0 my Canon focuses more quickly and as for IQ - the Canon RAW files are up there with the Leica files although maybe a tad more resolution.
Surely an X2 with a small tele would have been possible.

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snake_b
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Re: It doesn't fit.
In reply to Ming Thein, May 11, 2012

It is still fascinating to me how they had the nerve to use an ancient screen on the cam. Everything from cheap cams to cell phones are basically getting the best screen possible and they're even cheap on ebay to replace.

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Ming Thein
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I think you hit the nail on the head with the last comment.
In reply to tinpusher, May 11, 2012

They all have their strengths. None of them is perfect. Problem is, if you had to have only one, which one would it be?

Personally, it's not any of these. I need fast lenses and more than one focal length, so M4/3 was the only real option for my compact option.

tinpusher wrote:

Ming Thein wrote:

The image quality DOES excel the competition. That's enough to make it worth looking at.

When the X1 was introduced the lens did produce exceptional results for the type of camera it was. Even today the lens can create images that feel almost 3-dimensional and there is a smooth cool look about the best shots.

Then came the Fuji X100 which produces equal shots at f2.8 > with gorgeous colours and smooth look but still full of detail.

Now we come to Canon with their G1X. It's not fast but boy is it sharp almost throughout the entire range. JPEG Colours don't quite match Fuji or Leica but the flexibility of the short tele makes up for that.

For IQ I don't think anyone of these cameras excels the others.
Each is excelllent in its own way and that's why I own all of them.

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chiane
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Re: My full review of the new X2 is up!
In reply to Juha Lindstrm, May 11, 2012

Juha Lindstrm wrote:

Nice write up. Glad to see a positive review of the new X2. I can only think Leica will further improve it with future firmware updates.

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Juha

They had 2 1/2 years to design this, and they now need to improve it with firmware updates? It's not like it was rushed into production, only to be tweaked later. Sounds like Leica is government run.

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