NEX professionalism drawback?

Started May 9, 2012 | Discussions
twoeggmedia
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NEX professionalism drawback?
May 9, 2012

I have a NEX-7 I have for personal use and as a back-up to my Sigma SD15 I use almost solely for portrait work I do. I had a senior portrait session scheduled Saturday afternoon. The night before I saw hints of sensor dust on the previous days shoot with the Sigma and decided to use the NEX-7 with the 50mm 1.8E and some Leica lenses I use via adapter. This would be the first time I had used the NEX as a primary.

We met at one of my shoot locations and I got the NEX out and mounted it on my tripod to set up lighting and white balance. The mother of the girl I was shooting questioned my "dinky" camera. I said I understand it's a small camera and explained the quality of the NEX and my Leica lenses, even got out my iPad and showed my Flickr page shots and pointed out the portraits on my website done with the NEX. She scoffed and refused to go on with the shoot, saying, "we're not paying for a shoot with that dinky camera, you've got to be kidding me." I even offered to take a few for her to review and if she wasn't happy, we could reschedule. She was quite indignant and refused.

Does anyone else use a NEX professionally? If so, does anyone ever question the appearance of your camera? I guess I should have got the Sigma out just for appearances!?

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LoneReaction
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

Wow that was unfortunate... what happened to "don't judge a book by it's cover"? You even took the effort to show the quality that the camera produces.

I guess they should sell large foam outer cases for the Nex cameras to make them huge and bulky, lol.
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edwardaneal
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

I wonder if your client would have had simular issues with a $6,000 leica with a $4000 lens.

I am not a pro - used to be, but that was before I enjoyed photography. If I were in your shoes I would simply point out to the client that I had showed them my work before they hired me and they liked it and if after I am done they are not happy with the product I
delivered then they are not obligated to accept it or pay for it.

when I did shoot for money my clients chose me based on my portfolio and references from prior clients - - - no one ever asked me what camera I used and when I showed up they didnt know the difference between the Hasselblad and the leica M2r that I was carrying

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flint-hill
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to LoneReaction, May 9, 2012

Oh yeah, this kind of thing happens. Still or video, occasionally people complain about the camera if it's not big enough or black enough. I don't shoot video, but apparently it's more common there because professional video cameras have always been BIG.

Idiots.

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twoeggmedia
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to edwardaneal, May 9, 2012

edwardaneal wrote:

I wonder if your client would have had simular issues with a $6,000 leica with a $4000 lens.

I am not a pro - used to be, but that was before I enjoyed photography. If I were in your shoes I would simply point out to the client that I had showed them my work before they hired me and they liked it and if after I am done they are not happy with the product I
delivered then they are not obligated to accept it or pay for it.

when I did shoot for money my clients chose me based on my portfolio and references from prior clients - - - no one ever asked me what camera I used and when I showed up they didnt know the difference between the Hasselblad and the leica M2r that I was carrying

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I did point out that out. Some people are just irrational I guess. It was enough to make me possibly shy about pulling it out at a shoot again.

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sean lancaster
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

That's really unfortunate, but I can see how it happens. In 2004 or so, I bought a Nikon D70 just because it looked so professional and I assumed I'd become a great photographer by using a D70. I sucked using it and always shot in auto mode. When I'd get good DoF it was always because of luck because I had no idea why it happened on this shot or that one. I didn't learn about exposure and the various shooting modes until last summer when I switched to a used LX5 and starting reading books on photography. But I was unsatisfied with the limitations fo the LX5 and quickly sold it and bought the NEX-5N right when it came out. I've been doing everything I can to learn since then and I can now get more keepers in a day than I was getting in a month with the D70. And the glass I have on my NEX-5N (Zeiss 24/1.8 or the SEL50/1.8) is so much better than what I had on the Nikon, yet the Nikon D70 would have probably impressed the mom you had the other day with my 18-200VR lens. Perhaps you need to make a little brochure about your camera (e.g., showing the rating on dpreview) and how the sensor is better than many entry level DSLRs, etc.

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edwardaneal
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dont be silly
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

if you are worried about it show it to them when they hire you. Show them the various cameras you will be using. tell them the advantages of each and why you will be using them and show them samples from each - do this up front before the event.

you are in business, you need to sell yourself and your results. you dont wait until the event to deal with this, you do it before the contract is signed

being a professional photographer has much more to do with being able to handle business side of things than it does the photographic side

I hate to say it, but some of the most successful professional event photographers I have ever known were not really all that special at photography - - what they were really great at was selling themselves to clients and business

twoeggmedia wrote:

I did point out that out. Some people are just irrational I guess. It was enough to make me possibly shy about pulling it out at a shoot again.

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El Matadurr
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

twoeggmedia wrote:

I have a NEX-7 I have for personal use and as a back-up to my Sigma SD15 I use almost solely for portrait work I do. I had a senior portrait session scheduled Saturday afternoon. The night before I saw hints of sensor dust on the previous days shoot with the Sigma and decided to use the NEX-7 with the 50mm 1.8E and some Leica lenses I use via adapter. This would be the first time I had used the NEX as a primary.

I use my NEX-7 as my sole sports photography camera, with manual Nikon glass.

We met at one of my shoot locations and I got the NEX out and mounted it on my tripod to set up lighting and white balance. The mother of the girl I was shooting questioned my "dinky" camera. I said I understand it's a small camera and explained the quality of the NEX and my Leica lenses, even got out my iPad and showed my Flickr page shots and pointed out the portraits on my website done with the NEX. She scoffed and refused to go on with the shoot, saying, "we're not paying for a shoot with that dinky camera, you've got to be kidding me." I even offered to take a few for her to review and if she wasn't happy, we could reschedule. She was quite indignant and refused.

Quite honestly, that lady acted like a stuck-up bitch. There, I said it. That's just not right the way she treated you.

Does anyone else use a NEX professionally? If so, does anyone ever question the appearance of your camera? I guess I should have got the Sigma out just for appearances!?

As mentioned, it's what I use for all of my shots. My photos speak for me, not the camera. Parents are loving the shots they are buying, and the few that ask me about the camera are more curious than asinine.

That said, it does help that when the camera is at an event I have BIG glass on it, as seen below. My customers may be seeing just the lens then and not worrying.

In your case, don't worry about that lady, and keep using your camera how you want. If anything, try to be super confident with your skills with the camera, showing off pictures as you take them. I've had parents with their entry-dslrs stand next to me while I'm taking pictures, and when they look at their image (blurry, noisy, not magnified enough) they are disappointed, then when they see the stuff on my screen it's usually a combination of "Wow" and "Can you focus on shooting my son this game" and "How do I get prints from you".

I'm sure you've already seen it, but I wrote an article for Steve Huff going into detail with my practice and experience so far, if interested: http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/04/30/sports-photography-with-the-nex-7-an-exciting-humbling-frustrating-mind-blowing-experience-by-matthew-durr/#comment-178771

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john-photoguy
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

Man, I can't stand people like that. It needs a bunch of education. I use mine professionally all the time, and I have never had anybody not think i was not professional. at least nobody has said so. And it does such a better job than my much larger cameras. Even my NEX3 does better than my D300 in some situations.

BUT the miniaturization of all sorts of things has been important to the function. Do you remember the early 'portable' computers. I bet they wouldn't want you working on one of those. One raw photo from the NEX7 would take up more than a dozen floppies...Amazing! So it might look like a point and shoot, but that is the best reason for a portrait photographer. That way the sitter responds to the photographer, NOT the huge camera.

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swixtwix
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

Surprised... they were all dressed up and ready for the event... why not sit through part of the session.

You need the 18-200... then switch to the Leica for the session.

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DtEW
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to LoneReaction, May 9, 2012

What happened to you is absolutely unfortunate, but entirely predictable, IMHO. I think it's a case of consumer ignorance and the general crappiness of human nature.

Facts:

1. An ignorant consumer doesn't know exactly how much he doesn't know. This leads to two things:

A. What little he has seen and his seat-of-the-pants impressions are given undue weight. He sees a lot of Pros and "experts" going around with big black cameras (BBCs).

B. He also veers conservative with his choices, because as much as he has his biases, he is still full of doubt, esp. when he has to commit with his money. He's not willing to give things that challenge his preconceptions much of a chance, esp. when he believes that you may have an interest counter to his own.

2. He gos to Costco and sees relatively expensive BBCs that gives him pause in terms of dropping money on. And he sees small rectangular P&Ss (SRPSs) that are much cheaper in comparison.

Here you come with your small rectangular camera (he doesn't quite understand why there is a sizeable cylindrical lens attached to it. Perhaps this was an option/add-on with the SRPSs that he didn't know about?) An exclamation mark goes off in his head. "Is this guy trying bamboozle me out of a few hundred dollars with what I can buy and definitely do (consider that some people try to shoot their own weddings; the hubris of mankind is legendary) do for myself???"

You bust out your portfolio to make your case. But as much as you try, 1) there's already grave doubt in his mind, and 2) he's rationalizing against you, like "those aren't really his photos; he downloaded them off the internet" or "he's ripping me off by not busting out the big camera, going cheap, and foisting a shoddier end product on me so he can make extra profit".

And there's also the chance that he was on-the-fence about spending money for portraiture in the first place, but decided that it was hard to back out being already there with the photog... until he sees your camera, which creates the necessary doubt in his mind that he desperately clings to (yes, one can cling to doubt) because he really didn't want to spend the money in the first place. But the last part will never occur to him, and in his mind it'll be all about you... regardless of the fact that months from his incident with you, he still hasn't gotten (nor ever will get) the portraiture done.

So that's what I think you're up against if you're using the NEX for professional portraiture. As much as I agree that the 7 is an exceptional tool for this job... the very thing that makes it a great street camera is what works against it in convincing the ignorant to trust you with their time and money.

LoneReaction wrote:

I guess they should sell large foam outer cases for the Nex cameras to make them huge and bulky, lol.

(That might exacerbate some overheating issues. :P)

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swixtwix
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Re: dont be silly
In reply to edwardaneal, May 9, 2012

edwardaneal wrote:

you are in business, you need to sell yourself and your results. you dont wait until the event to deal with this, you do it before the contract is signed

being a professional photographer has much more to do with being able to handle business side of things than it does the photographic side

Since there was more than one person, it may have been worthwhile to make an appeal to the others in the group. Of course of the young lady was paying for the session or "in control" of the situation it may have been pointless...

Oh well, I like the idea of bringing and showing off the various cameras... but it sort of defeats the purpose of a compact kit.

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twoeggmedia
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to DtEW, May 9, 2012

You pretty much nailed my interpretation of her response. Her tone definitely was as if I was trying to pull one over on her. It still leaves me shy about using the NEX, solely based on appearances.

DtEW wrote:

What happened to you is absolutely unfortunate, but entirely predictable, IMHO. I think it's a case of consumer ignorance and the general crappiness of human nature.

Facts:

1. An ignorant consumer doesn't know exactly how much he doesn't know. This leads to two things:

A. What little he has seen and his seat-of-the-pants impressions are given undue weight. He sees a lot of Pros and "experts" going around with big black cameras (BBCs).

B. He also veers conservative with his choices, because as much as he has his biases, he is still full of doubt, esp. when he has to commit with his money. He's not willing to give things that challenge his preconceptions much of a chance, esp. when he believes that you may have an interest counter to his own.

2. He gos to Costco and sees relatively expensive BBCs that gives him pause in terms of dropping money on. And he sees small rectangular P&Ss (SRPSs) that are much cheaper in comparison.

Here you come with your small rectangular camera (he doesn't quite understand why there is a sizeable cylindrical lens attached to it. Perhaps this was an option/add-on with the SRPSs that he didn't know about?) An exclamation mark goes off in his head. "Is this guy trying bamboozle me out of a few hundred dollars with what I can buy and definitely do (consider that some people try to shoot their own weddings; the hubris of mankind is legendary) do for myself???"

You bust out your portfolio to make your case. But as much as you try, 1) there's already grave doubt in his mind, and 2) he's rationalizing against you, like "those aren't really his photos; he downloaded them off the internet" or "he's ripping me off by not busting out the big camera, going cheap, and foisting a shoddier end product on me so he can make extra profit".

And there's also the chance that he was on-the-fence about spending money for portraiture in the first place, but decided that it was hard to back out being already there with the photog... until he sees your camera, which creates the necessary doubt in his mind that he desperately clings to (yes, one can cling to doubt) because he really didn't want to spend the money in the first place. But the last part will never occur to him, and in his mind it'll be all about you... regardless of the fact that months from his incident with you, he still hasn't gotten (nor ever will get) the portraiture done.

So that's what I think you're up against if you're using the NEX for professional portraiture. As much as I agree that the 7 is an exceptional tool for this job... the very thing that makes it a great street camera is what works against it in convincing the ignorant to trust you with their time and money.

LoneReaction wrote:

I guess they should sell large foam outer cases for the Nex cameras to make them huge and bulky, lol.

(That might exacerbate some overheating issues. :P)

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Lng0004
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

Heh, while I do appreciate the sentiment going around in this thread, I find it funny that you "pros" are bashing the same people who are paying for your meals.

Quite honestly, that lady acted like a stuck-up bitch. There, I said it. That's just not right the way she treated you.

Guess what? That "stuck-up bitch" represents the majority of the customers. If you want to make money, you have to make your customers happy, not the other way around. Unless you've already made a name for yourself.

Would you let a barber shave your face if he's using a kitchen knife? Hey, it's just as sharp as any razor! And he's very sure of his skills.

So just suck it up and have back-up plans next time you do a shoot. Remember, just one bad egg can ruin the whole basket.

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RussellInCincinnati
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you don't want to work with people who distrust you
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

Would you want to work for a client who called you a liar? One who at the beginning of a session said they didn't trust you, or thought that you were a crook? One who was wondering out loud if they should call the police, if you turned out to be a mugger masquerading as a photographer?

For whatever reason, that was in essence what the mother was telling you. She didn't trust that you were a competent professional. Of course if she had simply said that outright, without giving any reason, you wouldn't be posting on a Sony Nex forum about the incident. If you believed that a self-employed person's business is only as good as their clients, you would simply be glad that you had the good sense to avoid working with such an ill-willed, looking-for-negatives person, and move on.

But since she drew the Nex into the discussion, she has encouraged you to ponder whether or not some gadget in your equipment bag is the cause of your client's insults and mistrust. What if she didn't like your tripod or car, either?

My suggestion would be that you are always better off avoiding clients that are looking for negatives. The mystery to me is why the lady hired you, if she was not already favorably impressed and predisposed by something she knew about you.

I suppose if it ever happens to you again (which I would wait for, this is probably just a freak occurrence), that you could...nah, it's just too ridiculous. Well of course you could consider if there's anything about your overall contact with the client that caused them to dislike you--if this happens again.

One way to totally obviate this problem is to offer, to dubious complete strangers, that you will meet them at a place of mutual convenience for a brief, informal, no-charge test photo. That you will quickly email them in watermarked or somewhat low resolution form. So that they can see your ability to, in just a few seconds, take a nicer photo of someone they care about than any amateur image they already have--that was taken under informal circumstances.

If you can't easily best what amateur work they have in their possession, it's unlikely that they're going to be happy with, and spread good word about, your business in the long run anyway.

If the jobs are so small that you can't imagine affording to invest a few minutes in such a test session, then your business is so low end that it really shouldn't be bugging you much, that you occasionally run across a laughably mistrustful potential client.

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d2f
d2f
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to twoeggmedia, May 9, 2012

You always have to put yourself in your customer's shoes to see the issue.

For example, if you were paying for a portrait of your child [time and money] and the photographer pulled out your iPhone would you have any concerns? If he showed you good portrait images on a iPad or a web site would that convince you? Now take away all your knowledge of camera gear and years of experience, and ask the question again, is the answer be the same?

Perception is everything. That is why a majority of people still judge a book by it's cover. Also a craftsman is known by his tools.

When I used to shoot weddings the mother of the bride always wanted to see my past work, she could care less what camera gear I was using. She wanted to see that I captured the emotions, that my photos could tell a story and were priceless keepsakes. I would tell her the story behind each picture and make them come alive.

The father on the other hand often wanted to see my camera gear, the lenses, and backup gear. He was concerned about that and cost. He was sold on the professional medium format gear, studio strobes and soft boxes. If I had showed him a 35mm camera [even a professional version] I think I would have lost a good percentage of my assignments.

If the wedding was a big event I would pull out my 8x10 view camera and that would tell the wedding party that I was Ansel Adams serious, it also stopped any comparisons the wedding guests of their cameras with my gear. Again it was perception that made the difference in how they approached and respected me. But I never looked down on them, always answered their questions, kept humble and respectful to all.

So part of the customer's perception is size. That is key to making a good first impressions.

In your case the customer perception of you and your skill was by the gear you were using. In her mind you were using a point and shoot. When you tried to convince her otherwise you were telling her that she was wrong, and most women think they are never wrong. The harder you pushed the more defensive she would become. When she left, in her mind, you were negative and unprofessional. And that is what she is going to tell her husband and friends.

In hindsight, you could have brought out your pro gear first, then switch to the back up gear claiming those shots were for your professional portfolio. Then let her see your work and let her choose the images she likes, then let her know the camera you used if she asks. Going that route educates your customer without making them defensive.

d2f

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El Matadurr
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to Lng0004, May 9, 2012

Lng0004 wrote:

Would you let a barber shave your face if he's using a kitchen knife? Hey, it's just as sharp as any razor! And he's very sure of his skills.

Different analogy I think, but heck no, especially if you are talking of the serrated kind.

So just suck it up and have back-up plans next time you do a shoot. Remember, just one bad egg can ruin the whole basket.

Exactly. That's why I always show my photos first.

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Jefenator
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to El Matadurr, May 9, 2012

Funny, I just witnessed the opposite! An enthusiast friend of mine popped in with his rather large pro-model EOS and it kind of freaked a lady out. ("Am I going to be in the newspaper??")

Apparently size does matter, sometimes!

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sumit kishore
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to Lng0004, May 9, 2012

Lng0004 wrote:

Heh, while I do appreciate the sentiment going around in this thread, I find it funny that you "pros" are bashing the same people who are paying for your meals.

I had those same thoughts. A custom shoot is a pretty hefty chunk of money, and going by http://youarenotaphotographer.com/ , the chances of getting shafted are pretty healthy.

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DtEW
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Re: NEX professionalism drawback?
In reply to Jefenator, May 9, 2012

Jefenator wrote:

Funny, I just witnessed the opposite! An enthusiast friend of mine popped in with his rather large pro-model EOS and it kind of freaked a lady out. ("Am I going to be in the newspaper??")

Apparently size does matter, sometimes!

And that is a large part of the reason why I chose a NEX.

I have managed to get away with a lot of stuff with my Canon G11 that I otherwise would not with a more "serious-looking" camera. And hence my continuation with the not-quite "serious-looking" NEX.

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