Interesting article by Thom Hogan

Started May 8, 2012 | Discussions
MichaelKJ
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Interesting article by Thom Hogan
May 8, 2012

Thom's The Chicken and the Eggs article makes a good argument why m4/3 is in the best position in the to win the mirrorless competition.

The camera makers are in it for the long haul, even the non-traditional ones like Samsung. They figure that they'll eventually get to where m4/3 is just by perseverance. This ignores history. The film SLR winners established themselves by their eggs [lenses], and the DSLR wars were pretty much won from the start because of the available eggs.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-chicken-and-the-egg.html

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WT21
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Thanks for the find. Here's another one of his, also interesting
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012
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Mike_PEAT
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But many people will tend to be like sheep...
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

MichaelKJ wrote:

The film SLR winners established themselves by their eggs [lenses], and the DSLR wars were pretty much won from the start because of the available eggs./

Since we're in a farm theme, many people will act like sheep, ignoring what eggs and chickens are available and following the heard like sheep...blindly buying for the brandname alone, no matter how good or bad the camera is.

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azazel1024
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Re: But many people will tend to be like sheep...
In reply to Mike_PEAT, May 8, 2012

It took the right chicken (OM-D E-M5) for me to finally switch from film, but if the eggs were scarce in the basket, no matter how good that chicken looked I wouldn't have switch. For me there was a critical mass of good looking eggs that I want to put in my basket combined with just the right chicken at the right time.

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PeterNMIF
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old eggs too
In reply to azazel1024, May 8, 2012

Plus you can use old eggs with the m43 system!

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kevroc
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Re: Interesting article by Thom Hogan
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

I disagree with his assessment. I chose my m4/3's camera based on the eggs, if it weren't for that I would've stuck with DSLR's.

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Just Having Fun
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Oly and Panny need marketing
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

..but won't do it.

They need to establish in the potential buyers' minds

  • m43 is THE standard for mirrorless cameras (with multiple corps. supporting it)

  • m43 is the most complete system with the best lens choice

  • The other guys are still bulky DSLR companies and behind the times

They should co-ordinate a large marketing campain, but won't.

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Guy Parsons
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no, this won't do
In reply to Just Having Fun, May 8, 2012

Just Having Fun wrote:

..but won't do it.

They need to establish in the potential buyers' minds

  • m43 is THE standard for mirrorless cameras (with multiple corps. supporting it)

  • m43 is the most complete system with the best lens choice

  • The other guys are still bulky DSLR companies and behind the times

They should co-ordinate a large marketing campain, but won't.

You must post an egg reference or your post will be scrambled.

Anyway, Thom is eggsacktly right about how the best lens line wins and Panasonic/Olympus better keep laying them every few months or so to keep the farmers happy.

Regards....... Guy

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Jogger
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Re: Interesting article by Thom Hogan
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

Consumers dont differentiate between SLRs and CSCs.. and dont really care if theres a mirror or not.. theyre just camera systems that take lenses and take better photos than their iphone.

Also, consumers only need a handful of lenses that are already covered by all manufacturers (kit lens, tele kit lens, compact prime, etc). Professionals will buy what they need to make money.. any that is going to be DSLR for a very long time.

MichaelKJ wrote:

Thom's The Chicken and the Eggs article makes a good argument why m4/3 is in the best position in the to win the mirrorless competition.

The camera makers are in it for the long haul, even the non-traditional ones like Samsung. They figure that they'll eventually get to where m4/3 is just by perseverance. This ignores history. The film SLR winners established themselves by their eggs [lenses], and the DSLR wars were pretty much won from the start because of the available eggs.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-chicken-and-the-egg.html

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FrankS009
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Re: Interesting article by Thom Hogan
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

I went for a good egg. Now my G1 is no spring chicken but it still hatches good images.

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T3
T3
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Also, two different companies making "chickens" for m4/3
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

Smart photo equipment buyers know that camera bodies come and go, but the lenses are what stick around. That basically re-enforces the notion that, in the long run, it's really about the lenses: quantity, quality, variety, and selection. And this is true regardless of the fact that most consumers may only buy a couple lenses. It's the idea that you have all these other lenses to aspire to, wish for, or lust after that is important. People like the idea that they have a lot of lenses, or "eggs", to choose from.

But another important factor in m4/3's favor is the fact that it is the only mirrorless system that has two separate manufacturers making and marketing camera bodies (not to mention lenses) for the system. That's actually a big deal. If you don't like the camera body offerings from Panasonic, you can go look at the camera body offering from Olympus. That's simply something that is not available with other camera systems. So, in essence, you have two different companies making "chickens" for m4/3.

MichaelKJ wrote:

Thom's The Chicken and the Eggs article makes a good argument why m4/3 is in the best position in the to win the mirrorless competition.

The camera makers are in it for the long haul, even the non-traditional ones like Samsung. They figure that they'll eventually get to where m4/3 is just by perseverance. This ignores history. The film SLR winners established themselves by their eggs [lenses], and the DSLR wars were pretty much won from the start because of the available eggs.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-chicken-and-the-egg.html

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Scott770
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My eggspectations were like everyone else's here (n/t)
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

Scott

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Henry Richardson
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and mostly women at that...
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

Yes, I have made this point before:

Because all the makers see mirrorless purchasers as mostly compact users moving up ( and mostly women at that )...

There are men too that want them and buy them, lots of men, but they are designed with women uppermost in mind.

In my case, m4/3 has the lenses I want and I have already bought 6 of them, all in just in the last 2-3 weeks. There are one or two more I am considering, but I expect I will hold off a bit on them.

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Guy Parsons
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Re: and mostly women at that...
In reply to Henry Richardson, May 8, 2012

Henry Richardson wrote:

Yes, I have made this point before:

Because all the makers see mirrorless purchasers as mostly compact users moving up ( and mostly women at that )...

There are men too that want them and buy them, lots of men, but they are designed with women uppermost in mind.

For the simple reason that women are more sensible than men and will make better purchase decisions.

The male market mostly is the "mine is bigger than yours" style.

And I'm not yolking.

Regards......... Guy

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dovi
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is 4/3 including Micro in trouble?
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 8, 2012

from: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/camera_design.shtml

"The 4/3 platform is supported now by a pretty extensive array of lenses and some of the camera models feature blazingly fast AF and on and on. This platform was so much at the center of the mirrorless segment only just a year ago, that it had my undivided attention and I just presumed that my rangefinder successor would eventually come from one of the offerings of either Panasonic or Olympus. But, in the chaos we are in, things change fast. I now wonder if the 4/3 format will even survive in the long term. Some of the digital formats will disappear, of that I feel certain. I believe 4/3 may be one of them because sensor manufacturing costs will decrease and its been proven now by a host of manufacturers that APS-C sensors can be used in small camera designs and the IQ, particularly high ISO IQ, benefits from a larger sensor. Canon has even put an APS-C sensor in a G series Powershot camera. As APS-C is used pervasively in the mirrorless and entry level DSLR markets, the economies of scale are bound to win out."

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Guy Parsons
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Rubbish article was quoted.
In reply to dovi, May 8, 2012

That was just one person's opinion and well commented about in some earlier thread. Basically ignore it as noise from the sidelines. Jealousy possibly.

Over the years all the "experts" have been predicting the death of 4/3 then later of M4/3. But M4/3 gets stronger and stronger and is the only platform with such a big bunch of lenses plus the ability to adapt thousands of others.

Regards............ Guy

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Rriley
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Re: is 4/3 including Micro in trouble?
In reply to dovi, May 8, 2012

dovi wrote:

from: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/camera_design.shtml

"The 4/3 platform is supported now by a pretty extensive array of lenses and some of the camera models feature blazingly fast AF and on and on. This platform was so much at the center of the mirrorless segment only just a year ago, that it had my undivided attention and I just presumed that my rangefinder successor would eventually come from one of the offerings of either Panasonic or Olympus. But, in the chaos we are in, things change fast. I now wonder if the 4/3 format will even survive in the long term. Some of the digital formats will disappear, of that I feel certain. I believe 4/3 may be one of them because sensor manufacturing costs will decrease and its been proven now by a host of manufacturers that APS-C sensors can be used in small camera designs and the IQ, particularly high ISO IQ, benefits from a larger sensor. Canon has even put an APS-C sensor in a G series Powershot camera . As APS-C is used pervasively in the mirrorless and entry level DSLR markets, the economies of scale are bound to win out."

at one time I would have said this is right, that APSC would be the victor. But really, postulating G1X sensor as APSC to win a point in a contest with mFT is using a naval broadside to destroy a barn...

.....and missing it....

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mh2000
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consumers vs. pros
In reply to Jogger, May 9, 2012

Also, consumers only need a handful of lenses that are already covered by all manufacturers (kit lens, tele kit lens, compact prime, etc). Professionals will buy what they need to make money.. any that is going to be DSLR for a very long time.

While there are a handful of pros using this system, the vast majority are just obsessive consumers. m43 is still far from a professional system. Very few pro's would be buying a m43 body or one of the Nokton lenses etc. This is still an enthuiast's system...

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exdeejjjaaaa
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Re: consumers vs. pros
In reply to mh2000, May 9, 2012

So which system looks better to a prospective user?

this one

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Bob Meyer
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Re: Interesting article by Thom Hogan
In reply to MichaelKJ, May 9, 2012

I don't think I agree with that. Maybe I've been around longer than Thom, but in the late 60s and early 70s Canon was definitely not # 1 or # 2 in terms of camera systems. Nikon was clearly #1 in terms of pro-grade bodies and lens selection. I'd put Pentax at #2, well ahead of Canon and Minolta. Consider all the other companies that used the M43 mount, and Canon didn't come close to the lens selection available for Pentax.

Canon wasn't taken seriously until they introduced the F1, and their professional reputation, and lens lineup, built from there. Canon continued to advance their technology, while Pentax stagnated, and Canon grew into the # 2 position.

If the m43 partners don't continue to innovate, there's still plenty of time for Samsung, Fuji, Sony or Nikon to build real competitors. I'm not convinced Fuji wants to be there. They've not shown any inclination to build anything but high margin niche cameras so far. Samsung has the financial and engineering resources to seriously compete in any electronics sector they want to. They're probably the top selling Android phone and tablet vendor; I'm pretty sure they're behind only Apple in terms of smartphone sales. Nikon certainly has the technology to compete if they want to.

And Canon clearly has both the technological and financial resources to come to market with a large sensor MILC, a significant lens lineup, and adapters to allow use of the entire EF lens lineup. Imagine a compact mirrorless that provide full automation and AF with the EF 70-200 2.8. I'd have to seriously consider that camera.

I'm not saying m43 will lose out, but it's way too early to write off the competition. There are still millions and millions of potential MILC buyers who have no existing investment in any system.

MichaelKJ wrote:

The camera makers are in it for the long haul, even the non-traditional ones like Samsung. They figure that they'll eventually get to where m4/3 is just by perseverance. This ignores history. The film SLR winners established themselves by their eggs [lenses], and the DSLR wars were pretty much won from the start because of the available eggs.

http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-chicken-and-the-egg.html

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Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).

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