NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?

Started May 7, 2012 | Discussions
D8334
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to Jostian, May 8, 2012

No, DPreview expects you to have a brain.
Comparing 100% crops is pointless.

Jostian wrote:

I'm comparing based on DPR's own comparison tool so I would think the technicalities have been taken care of by DPR

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darkref
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to Jostian, May 8, 2012
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LarryPhoto
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to ioshadha, May 8, 2012

I have and like my 5n, but would trade it in a heart beat for a Nex7

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Torch
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to ioshadha, May 8, 2012

While you may have a better high ISO appearance full screen at 100% a NEX 7 will exterminate both other cameras in 100% crop resolution. With a single sharp lens its like an extra zoom or super macro the other 2 don't have resolution for so the crop gets soft soft and mushy. This is out of camera jpeg I speak of.
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Torch

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seachicken2000
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to D8334, May 8, 2012

D8334 wrote:

DPreview have been criticized often for comparing 100% crops.

They did the comparison fairly in their NEX-7 review:

"The NEX-5N looks less noisy when viewed at 100%, but upsample it to match the NEX-7 and the visual difference all but disappears. The same story continues in the highlight and shadow regions of the frame, shown below - the 5N tends to look better at 100%, but little different when the images are compared at the same size." (from http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex7/22 )

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Jostian
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to headofdestiny, May 8, 2012

We all know DxO are not the be all and end all... please, I look and see with my eyes and the very slight diffs in exposure was to get the same iso rating...he was comparing ISO IQ! don't overcomplicate it, at the same iso the 5N is better, just as Cameralabs, and other sites have also agreed...
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Jostian
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to darkref, May 8, 2012

not quite... negligible implies the difference is basically imperceptible, I can definitely see a difference, and yes its not a big difference but the / was whether the 5N is better than the 7 at higher iso's and the answer is yes.
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Jostian
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to D8334, May 8, 2012

oh come on, check steve huff's comparison, luminous landscape, see cameralabs' comparison and others AND IN EVERY ONE the 5N is better, and you call me ignorant... I guess all the other sites and their comparisons are as well then, all inferior to your brilliance...please! At equivalent iso's the IQ of the 5N is better, not by much but it's better, simple.
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darkref
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to Jostian, May 8, 2012

Jostian wrote:

oh come on, check steve huff's comparison, luminous landscape, see cameralabs' comparison and others AND IN EVERY ONE the 5N is better, and you call me ignorant... I guess all the other sites and their comparisons are as well then, all inferior to your brilliance...please! At equivalent iso's the IQ of the 5N is better, not by much but it's better, simple.
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Jostian

Fine, it's 'better', the but difference is not such that you would buy the 5n over the 7 due to 'better' high iso performance.

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ioshadha
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to Jostian, May 8, 2012

Jostian wrote:

We all know DxO are not the be all and end all... please, I look and see with my eyes and the very slight diffs in exposure was to get the same iso rating...he was comparing ISO IQ! don't overcomplicate it, at the same iso the 5N is better, just as Cameralabs, and other sites have also agreed...
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Jostian

Most websites I have visited so far suggest the same. At higher ISO 5N has an edge. But at lower ISO NEX 7 wins hands down due to higher pixel count.

Theory is simple - similar sensors and the pixel density.

I understand NEX 7 is a better camera overall but at high ISOs Megapixel don't count towards a better picture. If the NEX 7 sensor was significantly better to 5N which I doubt is the case then it is a different matter.

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Rich Gibson
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Having both I prefer the 7
In reply to ioshadha, May 8, 2012

You have to have handled both to appreciate the strengths of each. Speculation and pixel peeping don't get at the core of the cameras. The differences, image-wise, are so close as to render the argument academic. However having owned both for months the 7 is the hands down winner for functionality and crop-ability.

Rich

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edwardaneal
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dxomark
In reply to ioshadha, May 8, 2012

noise is only one aspect of a camera sensors performance. if it is the only one you care about I guess you could say the 5N is better, but if you bring all aspects of sensor performance and judge them as a whole the NEX-7 is the better sensor, it has more dynamic range and better color depth.

clearly Dxomark seems to think that these other aspects of performance outweigh the slight difference in high ISO performance

over all score NEX-7 = 81 NEX-5n = 77

Game over

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cxsparc
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to darkref, May 8, 2012

darkref wrote:

Jostian wrote:

oh come on, check steve huff's comparison, luminous landscape, see cameralabs' comparison and others AND IN EVERY ONE the 5N is better, and you call me ignorant... I guess all the other sites and their comparisons are as well then, all inferior to your brilliance...please! At equivalent iso's the IQ of the 5N is better, not by much but it's better, simple.

..

Fine, it's 'better', the but difference is not such that you would buy the 5n over the 7 due to 'better' high iso performance.

Errr, I did just that thing. I could have bought a 7, but "high" ISO of 1600 or 3200 happens frequently even when using a SEL50F18 indoors. And after the wide-angle issues of the 7 came up, that clinched it.

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headofdestiny
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to ioshadha, May 8, 2012

ioshadha wrote:

Jostian wrote:

We all know DxO are not the be all and end all... please, I look and see with my eyes and the very slight diffs in exposure was to get the same iso rating...he was comparing ISO IQ! don't overcomplicate it, at the same iso the 5N is better, just as Cameralabs, and other sites have also agreed...
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Jostian

Most websites I have visited so far suggest the same. At higher ISO 5N has an edge. But at lower ISO NEX 7 wins hands down due to higher pixel count.

Theory is simple - similar sensors and the pixel density.

I understand NEX 7 is a better camera overall but at high ISOs Megapixel don't count towards a better picture. If the NEX 7 sensor was significantly better to 5N which I doubt is the case then it is a different matter.

Again, that's because most websites foolishly don't consider final output size as part of the equation. DxO Mark has done this from the beginning, and dpreview is just starting to catch on.

Photography is about output size. Comparing the 5N and 7 at 100% is like printing the NEX-5n to 11x16 and the NEX-7 to 13x19, and then comparing which is better. How does that make sense, if you're trying to determine which is better for your uses? The logical thing would be to print both cameras at the same size and see which you prefer, and the NEX-7 will be essentially as good or better in every scenario, whether you're making small jpegs for flickr or a 20x30 print.

Another thing to consider is that the NEX-7 will have finer grained noise in low light, because of the resolution, so some may even prefer the 7 in lowlight over the 5N.

I know that it became en vogue in the mid-2000s for people to say more megapixels isn't better, and there were all of these "buckets of water" analogies and such, but output was never a factor in those conversations, and most have wised up, at this point.

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darkref
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to cxsparc, May 8, 2012

cxsparc wrote:

darkref wrote:

Jostian wrote:

oh come on, check steve huff's comparison, luminous landscape, see cameralabs' comparison and others AND IN EVERY ONE the 5N is better, and you call me ignorant... I guess all the other sites and their comparisons are as well then, all inferior to your brilliance...please! At equivalent iso's the IQ of the 5N is better, not by much but it's better, simple.

..

Fine, it's 'better', the but difference is not such that you would buy the 5n over the 7 due to 'better' high iso performance.

Errr, I did just that thing. I could have bought a 7, but "high" ISO of 1600 or 3200 happens frequently even when using a SEL50F18 indoors. And after the wide-angle issues of the 7 came up, that clinched it.

Then you are ever so slightly crazy.

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wll
wll
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to ioshadha, May 8, 2012

There is so much more to the camera than any one thing. I'm sure award winning photos can be taken with any of the cameras mentioned. Find the one that fits you and go with it. We are at a point in camera technology that image quality is a moot point, unless you pixel peek to the max, and in that case good luck !

wll

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Jostian
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Re: dxomark
In reply to edwardaneal, May 8, 2012

another 'DxO says and therefore it must be so' people... I look at the results from a myriad of sites and draw my own conclusions, and for me its quite obvious the 5N has better iso performance above 800 iso.

cameralabs even say that the difference in the amount of detail between the 2 is negligible, see here

and noise wise, the difference is easy to see from 1600 iso

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Jostian

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RustyKnee
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Re: NEX 5N, OM-D E-M5 better than NEX 7 in terms of pixel density?
In reply to headofdestiny, May 8, 2012

+1

headofdestiny wrote:

Nope, it is actually a consumer view that more megapixels leads to more noise, because output size isn't taken into account. Assuming identical sensor size, technology and output size, a higher megapixel sensor will be equal to a lower megapixel sensor at high ISO, and greater at low ISO. The only disadvantage to the higher megapixel sensor is slower data throughout times and more storage space.

Compared to the 5N, the Nex-7 has the superior sensor in terms of resolution, detail and color, and it is about equal at high ISO, assuming you're comparing prints of the same size and using raw. Both are superior to the OM-D.

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darkref
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Re: dxomark
In reply to Jostian, May 8, 2012

Jostian wrote:

another 'DxO says and therefore it must be so' people... I look at the results from a myriad of sites and draw my own conclusions, and for me its quite obvious the 5N has better iso performance above 800 iso.

cameralabs even say that the difference in the amount of detail between the 2 is negligible, see here

and noise wise, the difference is easy to see from 1600 iso

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Jostian

Are you actually blind? Camera labs is comparing the noise at different resolutions which is completely pointless.

You can buy the 5n and have good ISO performance at 16mpix.

You can buy the 7 and basically have the same (no difference in most print/viewing sizes) high iso performance as the 5n at 16mpix.

But with the 7, you get a lot more detail at lower isos, this does not need a test, it's just maths, 16mpix vs 24mpix, 50% more pixels = more detail. Of course it depends what lens you are using.

The ONLY reason you would buy the 5n over the 7 is because of the colour cast on some wide angle lenses.

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headofdestiny
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Re: dxomark
In reply to Jostian, May 8, 2012

Jostian wrote:

another 'DxO says and therefore it must be so' people... I look at the results from a myriad of sites and draw my own conclusions, and for me its quite obvious the 5N has better iso performance above 800 iso.

cameralabs even say that the difference in the amount of detail between the 2 is negligible, see here

and noise wise, the difference is easy to see from 1600 iso

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Jostian

Like many so-called camera review sites, you don't understand the basic concept of equalizing output. It has nothing to do with DxO. In fact, I've owned both cameras.

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