Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "

Started May 6, 2012 | Discussions
tjuster1
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Re: You Didn't Use This Quote in the Other Forum
In reply to intruder61, May 6, 2012

I'd like a response to this. Is it true you posted this elsewhere and had it explained to you, and then brought it over here to stir the pot?

If so that's pathetic.

intruder61 wrote:

Davidgilmour wrote:

" Take it to the ski slopes, for example, and the E-M5 will clam up, only occasionally capturing a sharp frame. We experienced the same during a rainy day beach shoot with that 12-50mm kit optic zoomed all the way in. When the camera works, it's peerless, but you won't have to wait long before stumbling on a scene it can't master. The same is true of video capture: you'll want to steer clear of continuous autofocus while shooting in snow, rain or any dark or flat scene, lest you end up with a blurry mess "

Wasn't this camera supposed to be an AF miracle?

you posted different in the other forum.....you got told there why

...another twisted quote to suit whatever you want to believe and stir some sh!t.

I believe this is what you quoted....

...."While the camera does a top-notch job with wide framing in good conditions, it has significant difficulty focusing in scenes with little contrast."
.
....AND you got told why and how the AF works on this camera.

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muddyfunster
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half empty or half full?
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

i don't own the camera so i can't compare, but i'm really getting hacked off with moaning about the smallest slight an inanimate object receives.
I read the final conclusion and see a very good camera in a very nice system.

'Simply put, we love the E-M5. It's a solid shooter -- literally, thanks to its "splash-proof body" -- with excellent image quality throughout the ISO range and a slick, versatile lens. That 5-axis stabilization is innovative as well, as is the incredibly fast focusing system. While powerful, that focusing system isn't perfect, often slipping with low-contrast sand and snow scenes. Still, that issue is arguably minor, considering that this camera isn't designed for sports-shooting pros, and, like the battery meter, it may be corrected with a firmware update. The $1,300 kit price will be a tad too much to swallow for some, but with a solid body and a diverse collection of lenses, there hasn't been a better time to hop aboard Micro Four Thirds.'

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MadsR
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So another one
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

Who feels the need to justify his purchase of an expensive but ultimately niche camera to himself by trolling the m43 forum...

Well, the tracking capabilities is not stellar, they never have been, but they are far better than they have ever been before. The incompetent testers of cause put it out in a snow storm to try and film skiers, and while the camera actually worked to do this, the AF function did not... What they didn't write was that no camera system can actually do this accurately, PDAF systems too get confisued by snow...

Oh and btw, your Fuji camera can't do any of this either... Of cause, it can't focus on anything moving what so ever...

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drwho9437
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people without knowledge of photography
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

You can't focus with any focus system on a white wall with no details, same is true on a snow pack.

A gadget site is not staffed by serious photographers.
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/

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webrunner5
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Re: people without knowledge of photography
In reply to drwho9437, May 7, 2012

drwho9437 wrote:

You can't focus with any focus system on a white wall with no details, same is true on a snow pack.

A gadget site is not staffed by serious photographers.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/

Yeah right. Enlighten us with your great knowledge.

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Ollie 2
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Re: people without knowledge of photography
In reply to webrunner5, May 7, 2012

webrunner5 wrote:

drwho9437 wrote:

You can't focus with any focus system on a white wall with no details, same is true on a snow pack.

A gadget site is not staffed by serious photographers.
--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbryce/

Yeah right. Enlighten us with your great knowledge.

Hells bells.

He just did.

"You can't focus with any focus system on a white wall with no details, same is true on a snow pack.”

He’s right.

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Jun2
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The reason
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 7, 2012

That's due to the focus system. OM-D sensor can only collect 30 images per sec while GH2 can collect 60 frames per second. By default GH2 will have faster focus speed. But OM-D did some trick. So half of pixels collect 30 frames, another half of pixels collect another 30 frames (So total 60 frames per second) at low resolution. Such approach leads to OM-D to match Gh2 in AF speed.

In most case, such approach doesn't affect anything. But at low contrast area, every bit of resolution helps. Less resolution by such approach will leads to less good AF. But I can see, in some cases GH2 can also struggle.

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texinwien
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to nxp3, May 7, 2012

nxp3 wrote:

Isn't it a little ridiculous for olympus to set the camera up as bad as possible at default and let users figure it out? It makes more sense to set everything up right for the user so they can sell more cameras.

You're looking at it wrong, IMO. Precisely because they want to sell a lot of cameras, they set the camera up for the average user who will probably never make their way into the customized settings menu. The settings target the user who's going to shoot in auto mode. These users see the camera as a prestige object - a design object, and an expensive, top-of-the-line point-and-shoot camera. These users also tend to have a different conception of IQ.

Olympus fully expects serious photographers to dive into the custom menus and recalibrate things to their liking.

It's a simple marketing decision. Prepare the camera for the widest market, but give the photo buffs the ability to customize to their hearts' desire.

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acahaya
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LOL, nice try but you confuse video frame rates with AF speed (nt)
In reply to Jun2, May 7, 2012
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szlevi
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Re: Wrap up: "Simply put, we love the E-M5"
In reply to damoclesnz, May 7, 2012

Compared to the X1's half-broken AF the OM-D is an Olympic winner...

damoclesnz wrote:

Overall quite a positive review - barring the focus issues. Which they suggest are 'arguably minor'.

Sadly they aren't so positive on the Pro 1, which is a superb camera (albeit also not perfect).

I went out in search of a new camera today and ended up with the OMD. Love it so far.

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Louis_Dobson
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Re: LOL, nice try but you confuse video frame rates with AF speed (nt)
In reply to acahaya, May 7, 2012

Er, isn't the AF dependent on the frame rate?

I haven't had the OM long enough to be sure yet, but I feel the AF system reliability has taken a step back, and the speed a step forward. That's fine by me - it was bizarrely, exceptionally, reliable before and I'll trade a little of that for more speed.

I was trying to shoot a girl tightrope walking on Brighton beach, and it was messing up - something I've never seen from an MFT camera before. Sometimes it was grabbing the background, which I put down to the focus point being too large, sometimes it was just wrong, which might be because the girl's shirt was very close in shade to the background. Below is about the only sharp(ish) shot, and I think it was when I was MFing.

That's the only time it has let me down so far though, so too early to come to a conclusion.

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Louis_Dobson
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Re: Wow - that's a Rave Review if I've ever read one
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 7, 2012

No, it is highly eccentric!

Davidgilmour wrote:

Love how the original poster picked the single 'negative' point

Fanboy much?

Objection! The battery indicator ain't 100% reliable either

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antoineb
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they sound overly critical
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 7, 2012

I doubt that the E-M5 is as bad as Engadget say it is - but of course they raise more attention that way

In my view the E-M5's main issues is that it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE: where I live it costs about the same as a Nikon D7000, which is also almost as much as a Canon 7D.

Based on what I've read so far the E-M5 comes short of matching these cameras at high ISO, or for continuous shooting with AF. Even if it does better in other areas such as video, or fast single-shot AF.

If Olympus want(ed) to sell large numbers of this camera, and potentially attract new users, thie E-M5 should come at a visible, say 20 percent, discount to such proven (if obsolete) models.

If the past is any guide, then:

(1) the price of the E-M5 will likely drop a lot, and fairly fast. This is what happened to most Olympus m43 cameras.

(2) Olympus will shamelessly release a follow-on, more mature product, possibly less than one year after the E-M5

If I'm right then the best option is simply to hold off, and wait a year or so.

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thinkfat
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"Engadget" "reviews". That says it all, I guess.
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 7, 2012

(n/t)
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Louis_Dobson
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It's hard to price.
In reply to antoineb, May 7, 2012

Either you can say it is an uber-cam with high frame rates, waterproofing etc, which is what I want, in which case it is, frankly, a bargain, or you can say it is just a small mirrorless cam but a bit better, in which case it is expensive.

I'm delighted by the price...

antoineb wrote:

I doubt that the E-M5 is as bad as Engadget say it is - but of course they raise more attention that way

In my view the E-M5's main issues is that it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE: where I live it costs about the same as a Nikon D7000, which is also almost as much as a Canon 7D.

Based on what I've read so far the E-M5 comes short of matching these cameras at high ISO, or for continuous shooting with AF. Even if it does better in other areas such as video, or fast single-shot AF.

If Olympus want(ed) to sell large numbers of this camera, and potentially attract new users, thie E-M5 should come at a visible, say 20 percent, discount to such proven (if obsolete) models.

If the past is any guide, then:

(1) the price of the E-M5 will likely drop a lot, and fairly fast. This is what happened to most Olympus m43 cameras.

(2) Olympus will shamelessly release a follow-on, more mature product, possibly less than one year after the E-M5

If I'm right then the best option is simply to hold off, and wait a year or so.

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texinwien
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"The Olympus focuses instantly, even in low light" (video)
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 7, 2012

"...The Fuji has major difficulties, even when using the illuminator."

http://youtu.be/MtVtnabcdkY

Sorry Dave, take your trolling elsewhere.

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szlevi
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Re: It's hard to price.
In reply to Louis_Dobson, May 7, 2012

I think it's reasonably priced too, not to mention that Olympus needs revenue so it's rather unlikely to fall anytime soon.

As for the past it's pretty much irrelevant - it's a brand new line, with nothing comparable so far and Olympus clearly said if the E-M5 will be successful then they will continue to add more members to the OM-D family which tells me if they will add anything that will be an E-M7, not a cheaper one, leaving the E-M5 price largely intact for at least a year.

Holding out for an other year because someone is cheap is just downright ridiculous - you either don't really need this camera or you just cannot afford it, otherwise you wouldn't wait a year for this camera...

Louis_Dobson wrote:

Either you can say it is an uber-cam with high frame rates, waterproofing etc, which is what I want, in which case it is, frankly, a bargain, or you can say it is just a small mirrorless cam but a bit better, in which case it is expensive.

I'm delighted by the price...

antoineb wrote:

I doubt that the E-M5 is as bad as Engadget say it is - but of course they raise more attention that way

In my view the E-M5's main issues is that it is WAY TOO EXPENSIVE: where I live it costs about the same as a Nikon D7000, which is also almost as much as a Canon 7D.

Based on what I've read so far the E-M5 comes short of matching these cameras at high ISO, or for continuous shooting with AF. Even if it does better in other areas such as video, or fast single-shot AF.

If Olympus want(ed) to sell large numbers of this camera, and potentially attract new users, thie E-M5 should come at a visible, say 20 percent, discount to such proven (if obsolete) models.

If the past is any guide, then:

(1) the price of the E-M5 will likely drop a lot, and fairly fast. This is what happened to most Olympus m43 cameras.

(2) Olympus will shamelessly release a follow-on, more mature product, possibly less than one year after the E-M5

If I'm right then the best option is simply to hold off, and wait a year or so.

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Jun2
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Re: LOL, nice try but you confuse video frame rates with AF speed (nt)
In reply to acahaya, May 7, 2012

I was wrong. They are actually doing 120 Frames per second with 1/4 of total pixels during AF.

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Jun2
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Re: LOL, nice try but you confuse video frame rates with AF speed (nt)
In reply to Jun2, May 7, 2012

AF focus in mirrorless system is image senor collecting a serious images until the image reach the critical contrast (sharpness).

From image resource: For EM5, 240 Frame per second for continue AF, 120 FPS for single AF (that's from 30 FPS sensor-- the only way to do is to reduce the resolution).

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/omd-em5/omd-em5A.HTM

"Compared to the E-P3, they've achieved the improvement in speed by doubling the sensor readout speed again, with this now able to reach as high as a stunning 240 frames per second. There's a catch, though -- achieving this speed means that the E-P3 can't read out as many pixel locations as at lower rates, and so the 240Hz refresh comes at the expense of contrast detection resolution (and hence, autofocus accuracy). For this reason, the E-M5 only uses the 240Hz rate for continuous autofocus, and falls back to a slightly slower--but more accurate--120Hz rate during single autofocus operation. Olympus also notes that the increase in refresh rate for continuous AF allows better subject tracking performance".

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Jun2
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 7, 2012

GH2 sampling at 120FP for AF

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