Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "

Started May 6, 2012 | Discussions
Ulfric M Douglas
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Never mind the review, Kermit has stuff
In reply to kermitG9, May 6, 2012

Thanks Kermit ;

kermitG9 wrote:

What I've noticed clearly is the heightened number of false positive on 4/3 lenses.. A week ago, I posted a thread about my first experience with the 12-60 mm lens saying that the E-M5 was hunting much less vs. my E-P2 and that focus lock delay was basically reduced by a factor 2. Today, I'm less impressed about that speed: The E-P2 would basically never give me a false positive on the 12-60mm which is absolutely not the case with the E-M5. I can only conclude that Olympus "optimised" the speed of the E-M5 used with 4/3 lenses at the expense of accuracy..

This is surely a topic warranting its own thread ... a very important issue if true.

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Corpy2
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

They placed too much emphasis on continuous autofocus capability, believing without good reason the man manufacturers claims that these m4/3 cameras could autofocus like a "real" dSLR camera (insulting reference intentional).

My GH2 had the option, but it really was a joke, and slowed the frame rate tremendously. I guess 2012 is still too early, and the e-m5 still doesn't.

No big deal. Another couple of years.

In the meantime, these cameras give incredible image quality, and frame rate is getting much better.

All one needs is a little of the sense of a photographer of 40 years ago, and use the other mode, which only does focus for the first frame, and rely on the small f effective f stop. Or just lift one's finger up and down a few times on the shutter button.

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Tim F 101
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And so?
In reply to Condor, May 6, 2012

Olympus may well be right. They could improve C-AF by 200% and it would still suck, because as everyone already knows CDAF fumbles with focus tracking. DPReview gave that aspect all the attention it deserved, which is minimal. I wouldn't spend half of a Hasselblad review talking about whether it fits in your carry-on for the same reason that it is stupid to spend a significant amount of a review complaining about C-AF on a contrast detect camera. People don't buy it for that.

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Tim in upstate NY
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Understanding a new type of camera isn't quick and easy
In reply to Tim F 101, May 6, 2012

Tim F 101 wrote:

Olympus may well be right. They could improve C-AF by 200% and it would still suck, because as everyone already knows CDAF fumbles with focus tracking. DPReview gave that aspect all the attention it deserved, which is minimal. I wouldn't spend half of a Hasselblad review talking about whether it fits in your carry-on for the same reason that it is stupid to spend a significant amount of a review complaining about C-AF on a contrast detect camera. People don't buy it for that.

. . . Most experienced m4/3 users have found a lot of success with S-AF in the latest models and wouldn't spend too much time agonizing over the focus tracking ability their camera. Some of these inexperienced 'shake and bake' reviewers aren't usually knowledgeable enough to truly understand unfamiliar equipment unless they spend a lot of time with it like DPR has done with the E-M5.

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lds2k
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to papillon_65, May 6, 2012

Please explain what you mean by "set up properly out of the box"

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intruder61
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You Didn't Use This Quote in the Other Forum
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

Davidgilmour wrote:

" Take it to the ski slopes, for example, and the E-M5 will clam up, only occasionally capturing a sharp frame. We experienced the same during a rainy day beach shoot with that 12-50mm kit optic zoomed all the way in. When the camera works, it's peerless, but you won't have to wait long before stumbling on a scene it can't master. The same is true of video capture: you'll want to steer clear of continuous autofocus while shooting in snow, rain or any dark or flat scene, lest you end up with a blurry mess "

Wasn't this camera supposed to be an AF miracle?

you posted different in the other forum.....you got told there why

...another twisted quote to suit whatever you want to believe and stir some sh!t.

I believe this is what you quoted....

...."While the camera does a top-notch job with wide framing in good conditions, it has significant difficulty focusing in scenes with little contrast."
.
....AND you got told why and how the AF works on this camera.

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CrashE3
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Battery Level Indicator Adjustable..
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

Leading further to the conclusion that the reviewer is unreliable..

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nxp3
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to papillon_65, May 6, 2012

Isn't it a little ridiculous for olympus to set the camera up as bad as possible at default and let users figure it out? It makes more sense to set everything up right for the user so they can sell more cameras.
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jtan163
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

Davidgilmour wrote:

" Take it to the ski slopes, for example, and the E-M5 will clam up, only occasionally capturing a sharp frame. We experienced the same during a rainy day beach shoot with that 12-50mm kit optic zoomed all the way in. When the camera works, it's peerless, but you won't have to wait long before stumbling on a scene it can't master. The same is true of video capture: you'll want to steer clear of continuous autofocus while shooting in snow, rain or any dark or flat scene, lest you end up with a blurry mess "

Wasn't this camera supposed to be an AF miracle?

Quote:

"Simply put, we love the E-M5. It's a solid shooter -- literally, thanks to its "splash-proof body" -- with excellent image quality throughout the ISO range and a slick, versatile lens. That 5-axis stabilization is innovative as well, as is the incredibly fast focusing system. While powerful, that focusing system isn't perfect, often slipping with low-contrast sand and snow scenes. Still, that issue is arguably minor, considering that this camera isn't designed for sports-shooting pros, and, like the battery meter, it may be corrected with a firmware update."

The review was very positive. There may be a problem with contrast detect AF not working well on low contrast backgrounds. You'd expect that. Even so they call the AF powerful and the low contrast problem "minor".

All in all I'd say it was a pretty positive review. I don't have an EM5(yet) so I can;t verify it's accuracy, but based on the user reviews I've seen in these forums and others and on the general tone of the Engadget review, I have no reason to believe the Engadget review is anything other than fair, and reasoned.
Unlike some critiques of said Engadget review, that I have read.
ha hmm.

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Bob Meyer
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Re: Which camera then can CAF well with CDAF?
In reply to toscha_seidel, May 6, 2012

Based on reading DPR's reviews, it seems to me the GH2 is somewhat better than the OMD in that regard. One might hope for better from the OMD compared to the 2 year old GH2.

But I think the real problem is that the rumor sites, and forums like this one, were filled with claims that the OMD was going to be revolutionary in it's AF performance. Better than any DSLR, I recall reading. "World's fastest AF" according to Oly. I never believed those claims, but if that's what someone was expecting they're going to be disappointed.

toscha_seidel wrote:

I am curious to know then which CDAF camera can do superb CAF and trackng?

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Bokeh is the aesthetic quality of the blur in out-of-focus areas of an image, or the way the lens renders out-of-focus points of light. Bokeh is not the same as depth of field (DOF).

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papillon_65
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to lds2k, May 6, 2012

lds2k wrote:

Please explain what you mean by "set up properly out of the box"

Olympus cameras are rarely set up for optimum performance straight out of the box. Many reviewers fall foul of this and report cameras performance against the default settings. These cameras can be complex beasts and almost always benefit from some subtle tweaks to produce better IQ. Leaving the default noise reduction settings on is a classic example. They tend to be more consumer oriented and more aggressive. Some reviews take this into account but many don't.
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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to papillon_65, May 6, 2012

papillon_65 wrote:

lds2k wrote:

Please explain what you mean by "set up properly out of the box"

Olympus cameras are rarely set up for optimum performance straight out of the box. Many reviewers fall foul of this and report cameras performance against the default settings. These cameras can be complex beasts and almost always benefit from some subtle tweaks to produce better IQ. Leaving the default noise reduction settings on is a classic example. They tend to be more consumer oriented and more aggressive. Some reviews take this into account but many don't.

. . . I've been taking a lazy approach and have decided to wait and see what Richard Butler's E-M5 user's guide has in it before trying to optimize my image quality settings. There is a lot of complexity to this camera and I'm getting too old to keep up with some of it.

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papillon_65
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to Tim in upstate NY, May 6, 2012

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

lds2k wrote:

Please explain what you mean by "set up properly out of the box"

Olympus cameras are rarely set up for optimum performance straight out of the box. Many reviewers fall foul of this and report cameras performance against the default settings. These cameras can be complex beasts and almost always benefit from some subtle tweaks to produce better IQ. Leaving the default noise reduction settings on is a classic example. They tend to be more consumer oriented and more aggressive. Some reviews take this into account but many don't.

. . . I've been taking a lazy approach and have decided to wait and see what Richard Butler's E-M5 user's guide has in it before trying to optimize my image quality settings. There is a lot of complexity to this camera and I'm getting too old to keep up with some of it.

This may be a wise move Tim, Wrotniak used to be a good place for this info but unfortunately he seems to have disappeared. He knows his onions when it comes to setting up Oly cameras.
I generally start with natural mode and noise reduction off and work from there.
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Makinations
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to papillon_65, May 6, 2012

Someone pointed this out...

http://www.ayton.id.au/wiki/doku.php?id=photo:olympusem5_settings&s[]=m5

papillon_65 wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

lds2k wrote:

Please explain what you mean by "set up properly out of the box"

Olympus cameras are rarely set up for optimum performance straight out of the box. Many reviewers fall foul of this and report cameras performance against the default settings. These cameras can be complex beasts and almost always benefit from some subtle tweaks to produce better IQ. Leaving the default noise reduction settings on is a classic example. They tend to be more consumer oriented and more aggressive. Some reviews take this into account but many don't.

. . . I've been taking a lazy approach and have decided to wait and see what Richard Butler's E-M5 user's guide has in it before trying to optimize my image quality settings. There is a lot of complexity to this camera and I'm getting too old to keep up with some of it.

This may be a wise move Tim, Wrotniak used to be a good place for this info but unfortunately he seems to have disappeared. He knows his onions when it comes to setting up Oly cameras.
I generally start with natural mode and noise reduction off and work from there.
--
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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to papillon_65, May 6, 2012

papillon_65 wrote:

Tim in upstate NY wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

lds2k wrote:

Please explain what you mean by "set up properly out of the box"

Olympus cameras are rarely set up for optimum performance straight out of the box. Many reviewers fall foul of this and report cameras performance against the default settings. These cameras can be complex beasts and almost always benefit from some subtle tweaks to produce better IQ. Leaving the default noise reduction settings on is a classic example. They tend to be more consumer oriented and more aggressive. Some reviews take this into account but many don't.

. . . I've been taking a lazy approach and have decided to wait and see what Richard Butler's E-M5 user's guide has in it before trying to optimize my image quality settings. There is a lot of complexity to this camera and I'm getting too old to keep up with some of it.

This may be a wise move Tim, Wrotniak used to be a good place for this info but unfortunately he seems to have disappeared. He knows his onions when it comes to setting up Oly cameras.
I generally start with natural mode and noise reduction off and work from there.

. . . I am going to make those two changes before I go out again. I had already done so earlier with my E-PL3 but wanted to stay with the E-M5's default settings for a little while to be sure that I wasn't making any mistakes by simply changing things without being sure of what I was doing.

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Tim in upstate NY
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to Makinations, May 6, 2012

Makinations wrote:

Someone pointed this out...

http://www.ayton.id.au/wiki/doku.php?id=photo:olympusem5_settings&s[]=m5

. . . Thanks!

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The Skipper
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Re: To be honest: AF accuracy has decreased on 4/3 lenses
In reply to kermitG9, May 6, 2012

kermitG9 wrote:

I can only conclude that Olympus "optimized" the speed of the E-M5 used with 4/3 lenses at the expense of accuracy..

You just described my feeling about the E-PL2. My major complaint (aside from it being too big) is that while the auto-focus is fast even in low-light, there are too many misses.

This problem especially irks me because my two other cameras, an 8 year old D70 and 5 year old SD870is, are far more accurate (& the latter also uses contrast detection).

To compound the problem, for the times when I want to use the face detection feature, I find that it cannot be trusted at all (the hit rate is about 50%), compared to over 90% for the SD870is.

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barjohn
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Re: To be honest: AF accuracy has decreased on 4/3 lenses
In reply to The Skipper, May 6, 2012

I have found the AF to be quick and very accurate. A couple of times that I got out of focus images, on closer inspection, I realized I was shooting a very slow shutter speed relative to the focal length and it was due to motion blur not AF which was actually on. Not to say it will never miss but it is very rare (single point AF). I haven't tried CAF.
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lowincash
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Re: Engadget reviews EM5: " a blurry mess "
In reply to Davidgilmour, May 6, 2012

Miracle? No. Faster and more accurate than the Fuji X100/Xpro1? Hell yes. That's one reason I didn't get the Fuji, because it was dog slow when I tried it. Not everyone's cup of tea. The E-M5 on the other hand has worked great and even with the kit 12-50mm lens the low light AF outperforms my NEX-7 with 24mm f1.8 lens. I had no trouble using this camera in low light and with a fast prime it's not a problem at all. Might be slower to achieve AF in low light but it still locked on so I had no problem so far.

Go back to your Fuji forum since you've already started a useless thread there for who knows why. Or better yet, go out enjoy the sun and take some pictures instead of worrying about other cameras

It's funny, now that Adventsam and his buddy Triggr Happy is taking a break from their daily OM-D hate threads, a new one rises lol

Davidgilmour wrote:

" Take it to the ski slopes, for example, and the E-M5 will clam up, only occasionally capturing a sharp frame. We experienced the same during a rainy day beach shoot with that 12-50mm kit optic zoomed all the way in. When the camera works, it's peerless, but you won't have to wait long before stumbling on a scene it can't master. The same is true of video capture: you'll want to steer clear of continuous autofocus while shooting in snow, rain or any dark or flat scene, lest you end up with a blurry mess "

Wasn't this camera supposed to be an AF miracle?

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I only shoot JPEG =]

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Henry Richardson
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A good reviewer checks the maker's claims
In reply to Tim F 101, May 6, 2012

Tim F 101 wrote:

Olympus may well be right. They could improve C-AF by 200% and it would still suck, because as everyone already knows CDAF fumbles with focus tracking. DPReview gave that aspect all the attention it deserved, which is minimal. I wouldn't spend half of a Hasselblad review talking about whether it fits in your carry-on for the same reason that it is stupid to spend a significant amount of a review complaining about C-AF on a contrast detect camera. People don't buy it for that.

A good reviewer checks the maker's claims. Olympus made claims about the CAF and tracking so the reviewer was right to check it. Maybe someone who reads the review won't be sucked into buying a camera that isn't right for him/her. I don't think Hasselblad makes any claims about fitting in a carry-on, although it would.

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