5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charlie!

Started May 6, 2012 | Discussions
digzoom
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5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charlie!
May 6, 2012

These were done with the 70-200 2.8 is mk1. The autofocus and speed of the 5d3 is remarkable. It has breathed new life into my 24-70 2.8 and my 70-200! I have a 7d as well but was dying to go full frame for years. Now that I have, it would be very hard to go back to a crop camera. There is a more color/saturated look to the files that just seem more pleasing to me. Also the lack of noise at hi iso's is something to behold. I am still trying to figure out how to post the files in PS. Does anyone have a suggested setting for sharpening with usm in PS, specifically for 5d3 files? Thanks in advance.

This is Max yawning Away!

http://digzoom.dphoto.com/#/album/d4b84h/photo/7995663

Charlie cooling off

http://digzoom.dphoto.com/#/album/d4b84h/photo/7995680

Canon EOS 5D Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 7D
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Victor Engel
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to digzoom, May 6, 2012

Bokeh is a pretty of the lens, not the camera.
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iShootWideOpen
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Victor Engel, May 6, 2012

Victor Engel wrote:

Bokeh is a pretty of the lens, not the camera.
--

Not entirely true. A FF camera will give you much better bokeh with the same lens as a cropped camera.

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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to digzoom, May 6, 2012

digzoom wrote:

Does anyone have a suggested setting for sharpening with usm in PS, specifically for 5d3 files? Thanks in advance.

I liked your photos.

I own the 5D2, not the 5D3. I find the default sharpening in LR/ACR to be enough, except for photos meant to be printed. In fact, I almost never use PS anymore.

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digzoom
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Peter 13, May 6, 2012

Thanks Peter 13. I think I know what you mean about not using PS as much or not at all for sharpening. I am opening 5d3 files and to be honest they are tac-sharp about 95% of the time. I do find my images looking softer and more noisey when I upload to DP's galleries. Is there something I am doing wrong? I think DP is compressing my pics and they just do not look as good in the posts as opposed to my Dphoto account. Here is an example:

This image looks much sharper and less noisey on my computer at home. Is there a way around this. Thanks.

digzoom.dphoto.com

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Victor Engel
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to iShootWideOpen, May 6, 2012

Wrong.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Victor Engel wrote:

Bokeh is a pretty of the lens, not the camera.
--

Not entirely true. A FF camera will give you much better bokeh with the same lens as a cropped camera.

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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to digzoom, May 6, 2012

You might be right about loss of IQ. I find flickr very good (less compression artifacts) but the size is limited to 1024 px for a free account. If you upload a full resolution file, flickr resizes it very well. For best result, do your own resizing to 1024 max, and post-resizing sharpening, just do not overdo it.

Photobucket is another free hosting site but I think that their IQ is not as good.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind that what you see on your screen has been resized somehow by your viewer in a way that the viewer decides is good. ZB, for example, renders sharper images than, say, the Windows Picture Viewer. When you upload, DPP does its own resizing which can be very different.

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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Victor Engel, May 6, 2012

Right (I mean, iShootWideOpen is right).

Victor Engel wrote:
Wrong.

iShootWideOpen wrote:

Victor Engel wrote:

Bokeh is a pretty of the lens, not the camera.
--

Not entirely true. A FF camera will give you much better bokeh with the same lens as a cropped camera.

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Victor Engel
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Peter 13, May 6, 2012

The amount of blur as a function of frame size is different, but the Bokeh is identical, except, of course, for the portion of the frame that does not exist on the APS format camera. Crop the full frame image to the size of the APS image, and you have an essentially identical image. Cropping an image does not affect Bokeh any more than it affects focal length or aperture, i.e., not at all.

Don't confuse blur with Bokeh.
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digzoom
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Peter 13, May 6, 2012

Thank you for the info Peter13. Very helpful.

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Scrozzy
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Victor Engel, May 6, 2012

But then that depends on the FOV. All else being equal, including the FOV, the FF camera yields more (better?) bokeh as the camera-to-subject distance will be reduced.

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Victor Engel
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Scrozzy, May 6, 2012

More blur is not the same as better Bokeh. And, by the way, all else being equal including FOV between a FF camera and crop camera is impossible with the same lens.

Scrozzy wrote:

But then that depends on the FOV. All else being equal, including the FOV, the FF camera yields more (better?) bokeh as the camera-to-subject distance will be reduced.

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Scrozzy
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Victor Engel, May 6, 2012

Right you are. I had hoped given the fact I mentioned the FOVs being equal, along with the lens (implied), it would be a given that the FF would need to be closer to the subject.

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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Victor Engel, May 6, 2012

No. Bokeh quality (whatever it means) depends very much how far from the DOF you are (worse usually close to it -and what art you use depends on the format) and on the aperture, of course, which is not the same for equivalent images. Taking equivalent images forces you to use different FL, apertures, and maybe even different lenses. Longer lenses have better bokeh, shorter lenses - worse, in general.

Victor Engel wrote:

The amount of blur as a function of frame size is different, but the Bokeh is identical, except, of course, for the portion of the frame that does not exist on the APS format camera. Crop the full frame image to the size of the APS image, and you have an essentially identical image.

Oh, no. You get a vastly different image, enlarged 1.6 times more, which reveals things that you may not want to see.

Here is an example, it was not meant to be a bokeh comparison, I just happen to have it on my hard-drive. 5D2 and the 50D, of course, the 5D2 images should be shrunk a bit, almost equivalent images, except for the ISO. The FF version has less nervous bokeh, and this lens is not exactly a bokeh champion.

And this is at 1:3 zoom, a typical display resolution on a large monitor. The FF highlights are not completely round but much more pleasing.

And this is FF at f/4, zoom 1:3 (crop very close to the borer):

The dark round shadows behind the highlights are not artifacts, BTW, what you see are reflections from small balls.

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Victor Engel
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Peter 13, May 6, 2012

Peter 13 wrote:

No. Bokeh quality (whatever it means)

Bokeh quality doesn't mean anything. It's redundant. Bokeh is quality, by definition.

depends very much how far from the DOF you are (worse usually close to it -and what art you use depends on the format)

Please define what you mean by the concept of distance from DOF.

and on the aperture, of course, which is not the same for equivalent images. Taking equivalent images forces you to use different FL, apertures, and maybe even different lenses. Longer lenses have better bokeh, shorter lenses - worse, in general.

Not true.

Oh, no. You get a vastly different image, enlarged 1.6 times more, which reveals things that you may not want to see.

Yes, the image is vastly different. The bokeh, though, is identical.

Here is an example, it was not meant to be a bokeh comparison, I just happen to have it on my hard-drive. 5D2 and the 50D, of course, the 5D2 images should be shrunk a bit, almost equivalent images, except for the ISO. The FF version has less nervous bokeh, and this lens is not exactly a bokeh champion.

Good example. The bokeh on those two images is essentially identical. Comparing the bokeh on two images is tantamount to asking the question how the shape of an out of focus specular reflection or pinpoint light source compares on the two images. Well, let's try that with your pair of images:

Both appear to be rounded octagons. Both are bright around the edges with concentric diffraction rings just inside. They are essentially identical.

Your third image is taken at a different aperture, so, of course, the bokeh is different.
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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Victor Engel, May 6, 2012

Victor Engel wrote:

Peter 13 wrote:

No. Bokeh quality (whatever it means)

Bokeh quality doesn't mean anything. It's redundant. Bokeh is quality, by definition.

depends very much how far from the DOF you are (worse usually close to it -and what art you use depends on the format)

Please define what you mean by the concept of distance from DOF.

The distance from the border of the DOF. See also p.36 here, the second diagram.

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b8b6f/embedtitelintern/cln_35_bokeh_en/ $file/cln35_bokeh_en.pdf

The closer you are to the center of the DOF, the more you suffer in case of an over-corrected lens. But this is not the main reason, IMO; the main reason is that you have to open the lens more, and this increases the doughnut effect.

and on the aperture, of course, which is not the same for equivalent images. Taking equivalent images forces you to use different FL, apertures, and maybe even different lenses. Longer lenses have better bokeh, shorter lenses - worse, in general.

Not true.

True. Wider lenses are usually more corrected.

Oh, no. You get a vastly different image, enlarged 1.6 times more, which reveals things that you may not want to see.

Yes, the image is vastly different. The bokeh, though, is identical.

Identical bokeh on different images (FOV, etc.) is nonsense.

Here is an example, it was not meant to be a bokeh comparison, I just happen to have it on my hard-drive. 5D2 and the 50D, of course, the 5D2 images should be shrunk a bit, almost equivalent images, except for the ISO. The FF version has less nervous bokeh, and this lens is not exactly a bokeh champion.

Good example. The bokeh on those two images is essentially identical. Comparing the bokeh on two images is tantamount to asking the question how the shape of an out of focus specular reflection or pinpoint light source compares on the two images. Well, let's try that with your pair of images:

[...]

I have no idea what you did here. My second image is telling enough. Here is the same comparison, but now I resized both the 1200 px height in PS (bicubic), then displayed them side by side, and took a Print Screen snapshot because I was lazy to do the rest in PS. The bokeh is clearly very different. Some people pay big bucks for such a difference.

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carlk
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Scrozzy, May 6, 2012

Victor is right. Bokeh is 100% lens' quality. It's the quality of oof area not the amount of blur that many people mistook it for. Think about it. How could the bokeh (quality of the blur) change when you crop your image to a smaller fov?

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carlk
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to Peter 13, May 6, 2012

Peter you disappoint me, and a big surprise too, that you did not know the definition of bokeh.

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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to carlk, May 6, 2012

carlk wrote:

Victor is right. Bokeh is 100% lens' quality. It's the quality of oof area not the amount of blur that many people mistook it for. Think about it. How could the bokeh (quality of the blur) change when you crop your image to a smaller fov?

I already explained it and I posted an example.

There is no such thing as quality of blur for a lens in general. It depends on the FL, the aperture, the enlargement factor, etc., and they are different for equivalent images.

Just look at the image above. Forget about the highlights, look at the two (almost) vertical lines in the background. The 50D crop has a clear edge in the center, missing form the FF crop. That lens is known for not so great bokeh but it performs much better on FF.

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Peter 13
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Re: 5d mk3-love the bokeh and sharpness at large apetures! Meet my pups Max and Charl
In reply to carlk, May 6, 2012

carlk wrote:

Peter you disappoint me, and a big surprise too, that you did not know the definition of bokeh.

There is a definition???

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