I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.

Started May 5, 2012 | Discussions
linusto
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Re: TROLL
In reply to Robert Holloway, May 6, 2012

Robert, I don't know if that was for you or not. What I can say is that, for my needs, the xpro1 is fantastic. You gave it a try for your needs and it didn't quite do the trick. So what? I'm not a fanboy of Fuji, so doesn't matter to me at all. I respect the decision you made. You actually took the time to try out the camera in earnest. Many who speak up negatively in this forum about the xpro without having ever seriously made an attempt to use it - those are the trolls. Not you. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Robert Holloway wrote:

I assume this is addressed at me.

Do you understand that a camera is a tool and that this great camera is awesome for some photographic situations and not for others?

Do you know that I have contributed hundreds of posts to this forum?

How does this make me a troll?

Rob

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PJInTheUSA
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Re: TROLL
In reply to linusto, May 6, 2012

+1

linusto wrote:

Robert, I don't know if that was for you or not. What I can say is that, for my needs, the xpro1 is fantastic. You gave it a try for your needs and it didn't quite do the trick. So what? I'm not a fanboy of Fuji, so doesn't matter to me at all. I respect the decision you made. You actually took the time to try out the camera in earnest. Many who speak up negatively in this forum about the xpro without having ever seriously made an attempt to use it - those are the trolls. Not you. Thanks for sharing your experience with us.

Robert Holloway wrote:

I assume this is addressed at me.

Do you understand that a camera is a tool and that this great camera is awesome for some photographic situations and not for others?

Do you know that I have contributed hundreds of posts to this forum?

How does this make me a troll?

Rob

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LaFonte
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to linusto, May 6, 2012

I like henrys too. Returned few cameras, bought 10x more over time from them.

linusto wrote:

+1. This is ridiculous. 'abstentacious', who is to say that Amazon doesn't check the returned cameras for number of shots taken. Do you know for a fact that they don't? Perhaps they are generally comfortable with the way most camera customers try the gear within a short period of time, irrespective of number of clicks within reason. Their concept of reason and definition of 'several' might be very different than yours or mine. I, like Ray Sachs and others on this forum, essentially govern myself by how Amazon responds. I'm not gaming the system. I buy with the intent to keep unless I am not satisfied with the product. Henry's, the major camera gear store here in Canada, has essentially the same policy. They examine the returned gear and it has to be spotless for full money back return. I have purchased from them almost exclusively because of their policy, in effect becoming a loyal, long term purchaser. It's a relationship that develops over time that a successful retailer is looking to covet. Perhaps this is what Amazon's gracious return policy is all about. And it must be working for them. What few 'true abusers' there are must be in the absolute minority. Abuse of this system in my mind is when someone buys with no intention to keep, ie. in effect renting for free. This is unethical. So, really, those who want to criticize us, please get off your high horse and find a true moral cause to take up. I'll respect you more if you do.

Kai Griffin wrote:

snapper1967 wrote:

absentaneous wrote:

I guess you can't read: their opinion is "However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund." you surely don't follow that. maybe you didn't know it but now you do. and as I wrote previously the fact that they probably don't have the time or interest to check out the actually uses of cameras doesn't mean you can abuse their policy. well, unless your morals works like: "all is ok as long as I don't get caught doing something wrong".

I really hate busy bodies like you. Get a life and stop worrying about what other people do. So sad this is all you have time for!

Absolutely right. "absentaneous", you're just being a nosy busy-body, like an old spinster aunt who stares out the screen door all day wearing a bathroom and hair-curlers, bitching about everyone that passes by. For heaven's sake, change into a frock and get out of the house!

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LaFonte
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to jwalker019, May 6, 2012

Sorry, but what has morality to do with it? Such person only (maybe selfishly) take advantage of the rules (that they didn't create) but that is the end of the story. It is not a morality issue. i don't advice doing this, but it is a pure buyer/seller transaction. As soon as the seller is fine with this, why to argue?

I was buying last month speakers in my local store and when I wasn't sure the guy literally told me to take the speakers home, play it for few weeks and when I don't like them just bring them back and try something else. Normal situation. No morality issue anywhere.

And I actually did returned the speakers and got KRK's and nobody even blinked an eye in the store.

jwalker019 wrote:

pkincy wrote:

If they sold high end cameras you could buy an XPro 1, use it for 3 months, than take it back for full refund and buy an OM D and use it for 3 months, take it back for a full refund and than buy a Leica M10 and use it for 3 months. Take that back and you have spent nothing for having a camera for 9 months.

Would I do that? No, but if someone did, they would not be in the wrong or creating a moral crime.

Wow. I was almost with you until you came to this - OF COURSE they would be in the wrong, and this is both unethical and immoral. How could anyone possibly justify this type of behavior? I just don't get it

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LaFonte
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Cyclopedia Brown, May 6, 2012

But look most of retailers choose to have internet shop as opposite to real store. Soon you won't be able to try anything.

Cyclopedia Brown wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

...These policies work for me. They clearly work for the retailers too. If they stop working for the retailers, they'll change them. In the meantime, I find nothing immoral about using them as intended. These policies are very clear and are there for everyone's benefit. If you don't choose to take advantage of these policies, that's fine and I certainly wouldn't condemn you but I don't consider you "extra-moral" either. They're there for a reason and they tend to work as desired.

Perhaps my point of view is one that is coming from the mom & Pop type of seller that I was when I was powerselling on Ebay. A return of this nature would have put me back a bit. But, for huge companies like Amazon and B&H this is acceptable. And for them I guess these things make sense in the long run.

I have been buying large pieces of equipment from Amazon for many many years. I assume they will do anything to keep me happy.

Moreover, my thoughts against returning cameras could also be looked at from a consumers point of view. If a camera and it's lenses are in limited supply, much like the X100 was, it is upsetting when you are waiting for a camera and some else buys it to return it while you are still waiting.

Either way, I respect your way of thinking Ray. If there is ever a time when I return something because I simply don't like it I will remember this discussion. Hope that day never comes though and it definitely is not the case for the X-Pro1!

Take care.

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ekaton
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to chooflaki, May 6, 2012

chooflaki wrote:

Reminds me of the people that dump supermarket shopping trolleys for their convenience. The lowdown is the supermarkets factor this in their price structure so all customers pay a little more. Same as for these dodgy returns. The real cost is passed on to all customers.

Exactly! There is a guy over at serious compacts who takes pride in having returned about a dozen cameras in the last 12 months. Serious market participants pay the price for those abusing generous return policies.

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jles
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to ekaton, May 6, 2012

...and what happens to the returned units? Reselled as new? As used? And where? Does somebody care?

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Bjrn SWE
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to jles, May 6, 2012

jles wrote:

...and what happens to the returned units? Reselled as new? As used? And where? Does somebody care?

The returned cameras will be sold as new again of course. Only unused units will be taken back. If it is possible to see with your eyes that the camera has been used, it will NOT be considered unused and the store that sold it will not accept a return. It's that simple.

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jles
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Bjrn SWE, May 6, 2012

If only that would be true.

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Boris
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to absentaneous, May 6, 2012

Surely you must have more important things to worry over than the return policy of Amazon! You don't like the product send it back. Just as B&H the returns are priced into the product....stop worrying about amazon or the buyers moral right to return a product he/she is not satisfied with....it is the vendors policy..not yours!
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Robert Holloway
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Boris, May 6, 2012

I know, it's very strange

Boris wrote:

Surely you must have more important things to worry over than the return policy of Amazon! You don't like the product send it back. Just as B&H the returns are priced into the product....stop worrying about amazon or the buyers moral right to return a product he/she is not satisfied with....it is the vendors policy..not yours!
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Robert Holloway
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to ekaton, May 6, 2012

Oh dear....

This is one person amidst millions of people buying on line. it's just not important. What matters are the numbers and how they add up. large corporations like Amazon work by math.

Rob

ekaton wrote:

chooflaki wrote:

Reminds me of the people that dump supermarket shopping trolleys for their convenience. The lowdown is the supermarkets factor this in their price structure so all customers pay a little more. Same as for these dodgy returns. The real cost is passed on to all customers.

Exactly! There is a guy over at serious compacts who takes pride in having returned about a dozen cameras in the last 12 months. Serious market participants pay the price for those abusing generous return policies.

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Robert Holloway
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Bjrn SWE, May 6, 2012

Oh dear,

Are you asking us to believe that Amazon simply sells them on as new?
Apple has a reconditioned section on their site - where I buy all my stufff
15-25% off

Rob

Bjrn SWE wrote:

jles wrote:

...and what happens to the returned units? Reselled as new? As used? And where? Does somebody care?

The returned cameras will be sold as new again of course. Only unused units will be taken back. If it is possible to see with your eyes that the camera has been used, it will NOT be considered unused and the store that sold it will not accept a return. It's that simple.

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chopsteeks
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Robert Holloway, May 6, 2012

For the ones taking advantage of Amazon's rental program, you should list the unit's serial numbers...

If I get shipped on of these......will not be pretty...

By the time I am done with Amazon....changes will be made...

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Robert Holloway
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to chopsteeks, May 6, 2012

Silly rabbit

chopsteeks wrote:

For the ones taking advantage of Amazon's rental program, you should list the unit's serial numbers...

If I get shipped on of these......will not be pretty...

By the time I am done with Amazon....changes will be made...

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jwalker019
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to PJInTheUSA, May 6, 2012

PJInTheUSA wrote:
Not buying it for a second. Sorry.

jwalker019 wrote:

PJInTheUSA wrote:

Amazon did not end their email with:

"However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund."

That is not a cut and paste. Their are just to many grammatical error in those two sentences.

You are completely wrong and you should apologize to the OP for calling him / her a liar.

I know who does the email support for Amazon.com, and they often add short explanatory / clarifying phrases at the end of the "canned" text to address a particular concern - this is standard procedure.

It's obvious the customer service representative added this bit as an expansion - his / her grammar isn't as good as the professional writer's who composed the rest of the response.

So now you're calling us both liars? Did you also miss the post where the OP pasted the entire email message into this thread, here?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1020&message=41426174

Do you need to be standing over the customer service representative's shoulder in India (or the Philippines, depending on what time you emailed), watching her typing the individual response, before you will believe?

I guess it doesn't matter what you believe or don't, it's just very irritating to be called a liar, even when I share with you that I know these folks personally and know the business process in question.

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jwalker019
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to LaFonte, May 6, 2012

LaFonte wrote:

Sorry, but what has morality to do with it? Such person only (maybe selfishly) take advantage of the rules (that they didn't create) but that is the end of the story. It is not a morality issue. i don't advice doing this, but it is a pure buyer/seller transaction. As soon as the seller is fine with this, why to argue?

I was buying last month speakers in my local store and when I wasn't sure the guy literally told me to take the speakers home, play it for few weeks and when I don't like them just bring them back and try something else. Normal situation. No morality issue anywhere.

And I actually did returned the speakers and got KRK's and nobody even blinked an eye in the store.

Again, wow. You and I must have very different definitions of morality. Taking advantage of a policy in the manner described is clearly abusive and just wrong. Textbook example of immorality.

I think a lot of people confuse "legality" with "morality". Just because something is permitted does not make it right. And just because something is prohibited does not make it wrong.

jwalker019 wrote:

pkincy wrote:

If they sold high end cameras you could buy an XPro 1, use it for 3 months, than take it back for full refund and buy an OM D and use it for 3 months, take it back for a full refund and than buy a Leica M10 and use it for 3 months. Take that back and you have spent nothing for having a camera for 9 months.

Would I do that? No, but if someone did, they would not be in the wrong or creating a moral crime.

Wow. I was almost with you until you came to this - OF COURSE they would be in the wrong, and this is both unethical and immoral. How could anyone possibly justify this type of behavior? I just don't get it

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absentaneous
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Boris, May 6, 2012

if I am their customer then worrying about their return policy is something I should find time for. because when I am buying something I want to know exactly what am I buying. if I am buying something that is sold as "new" I expect it to be new. meaning as it was when shipped from the company that produced it. if I buy something that is sold as "used" and then then as in "almost as new" condition or "in very good condition" or in "good condition" I want to know what that exactly means as well. if amazon says you can't use a camera several times before returning it yet they sell me a camera that was used several times without also making that clear then they are violating my rights. and here we found out about an example which surely breaks the rule that says the camera can't be used several times or else full refund won't be issued. apparently they don't follow their own rules which means they don't really respect their customers. and I am sure those who benefit from that are happy but those who get harmed by such attitude would be hardly happy. of course I am just one of the many customers they have and I can't break their business but I don't think it's fair from their side that they make me lose time by selling me something that was not what it was claimed it was.

Boris wrote:

Surely you must have more important things to worry over than the return policy of Amazon! You don't like the product send it back. Just as B&H the returns are priced into the product....stop worrying about amazon or the buyers moral right to return a product he/she is not satisfied with....it is the vendors policy..not yours!
Boris
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linusto
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to absentaneous, May 6, 2012

All you are describing is your disaffinity for Amazon's business model. Fine. Then, don't buy from them. Go somewhere else. I'm sure that if enough people felt as strongly as you do, Amazon would be in real trouble. But really, you or I just don't matter. So stop with this self-righteous attitude and guide yourself accordingly. No one here is chastizing you for your behaviour. On the contrary, you are the one who is labelling others as 'more selfish' and 'less moral'. This is not a moral issue, but a business one. Get over it and stop this silly discussion !!!

absentaneous wrote:

if I am their customer then worrying about their return policy is something I should find time for. because when I am buying something I want to know exactly what am I buying. if I am buying something that is sold as "new" I expect it to be new. meaning as it was when shipped from the company that produced it. if I buy something that is sold as "used" and then then as in "almost as new" condition or "in very good condition" or in "good condition" I want to know what that exactly means as well. if amazon says you can't use a camera several times before returning it yet they sell me a camera that was used several times without also making that clear then they are violating my rights. and here we found out about an example which surely breaks the rule that says the camera can't be used several times or else full refund won't be issued. apparently they don't follow their own rules which means they don't really respect their customers. and I am sure those who benefit from that are happy but those who get harmed by such attitude would be hardly happy. of course I am just one of the many customers they have and I can't break their business but I don't think it's fair from their side that they make me lose time by selling me something that was not what it was claimed it was.

Boris wrote:

Surely you must have more important things to worry over than the return policy of Amazon! You don't like the product send it back. Just as B&H the returns are priced into the product....stop worrying about amazon or the buyers moral right to return a product he/she is not satisfied with....it is the vendors policy..not yours!
Boris
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absentaneous
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to linusto, May 6, 2012

the problem is that "somewhere else" might be even worse. there they'd sell you actually used cameras as brand new which is exactly the reason why I started complaining about people not doing enough research before buying stuff. because I am then sold stuff these people returned because of their lack of responsibility and general morals. and of course it's a moral issue because morality doesn't mean "good business" in case nobody taught you that yet. I mean why am I even bothering talking to people who appear as if all they learned in life was that 1+1=2 yet they probably don't even know why is that so.

linusto wrote:

All you are describing is your disaffinity for Amazon's business model. Fine. Then, don't buy from them. Go somewhere else. I'm sure that if enough people felt as strongly as you do, Amazon would be in real trouble. But really, you or I just don't matter. So stop with this self-righteous attitude and guide yourself accordingly. No one here is chastizing you for your behaviour. On the contrary, you are the one who is labelling others as 'more selfish' and 'less moral'. This is not a moral issue, but a business one. Get over it and stop this silly discussion !!!

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