I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.

Started May 5, 2012 | Discussions
absentaneous
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I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
May 5, 2012

since the original thread which basically turned into a discussion on how one is supposed to understand the 30-day return policy amazon.com offers for stuff they sell reached the comments limit I just want to bring one final fact out that I think clears it all for those who obviously seem to be not just confused with what a moral conduct is but also with what the return policy stands for in the first place.

I actually bothered to send amazon.com a question about how do they understand this 30-day return policy and what is the person allowed to do specifically with a photo camera during this period. it seems they sent me some half automated response which in first part just tells the general stuff that you can return stuff when you are not satisfied etc. but their response ends with this:

"However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund."

now, for those who might have a problem with understanding certain words, like several, here is the explanation from a dictionary:

a : more than one
b : more than two but fewer than many
c chiefly dialect : being a great many

I guess based on this it's not too hard to conclude that 420 clicks surely means several times. and I guess this also explains what they mean when they say: "These items must be in new condition with original packaging and accessories." it means it can't be used several times.

of course I guess at amazon.com they don't really have the time to check out how many clicks were performed on the camera but probably just inspect the camera on the outside to see if it was physically damaged but it's obvious that they don't want people to use their stuff for several times before returning it. so, if you do that you are clearly cheating them (no matter if you get caught or not). and cheating is immoral.

chooflaki
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to absentaneous, May 5, 2012

Reminds me of the people that dump supermarket shopping trolleys for their convenience. The lowdown is the supermarkets factor this in their price structure so all customers pay a little more. Same as for these dodgy returns. The real cost is passed on to all customers.

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FWTOQA
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to absentaneous, May 5, 2012

Forgive me if this has been covered in post part 1 (I haven't read a single post there!) but here's my experience with Amazon CO.UK

Bought the X100 in October 2011, the camera developed SAB in January 2012, I returned it for a full refund in mid January. About 80 days of continued use, including taking it away to Rome for a very enjoyable few days, and then a full refund from a very accomodating Amazon.

My opinion was that a camera of that price - it was over £800 when I bought it - no matter how good doesn't warrant a repair, it just needs replacing. As I wasn't prepared to try again - once bitten - I just got my money back. No problems with Amazon, they accepted my request.

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PJInTheUSA
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to FWTOQA, May 5, 2012

"However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund."

And you copy and pasted that text from the amazon email. I don't think so.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to absentaneous, May 5, 2012

When I try a camera I'm unsure about, whether I get it from Amazon or anyplace else with a similar return policy, I'll generally play around with it at home for a couple of hours to make sure I understand all of the settings and then I take it out for one days shooting in as varied a set of conditions as I can find. I usually end up with 150-300 shots on it depending on various things. Then I look at and work with the files when I get back. Sometimes I'll do a few follow up shots of a specific type if the first days shooting and processing leaves me with some questions. Maybe another 30-40 shots. I've done this with several cameras over the years - and I've returned three of them, always within a week. And always well packed and in new comdition except for those exposures taken You can judge me however you'd like. I've never had a problem with the sellers though - they seem to consider this within accepted practice. Your opinion I don't care about - their's matters.

-Ray
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absentaneous
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to PJInTheUSA, May 5, 2012

PJInTheUSA wrote:

And you copy and pasted that text from the amazon email. I don't think so.

Hello,

Thanks for your interest in buying on Amazon.com.

I understand that you want to purchase photo cameras from Amazon.

If you buy an item and discover it's not what you expected, you can return it for a refund (www.amazon.com/returns).

You can return most new, unopened items sold and fulfilled by Amazon.com within 30 days of delivery for a full refund. Eligible Baby Store items fulfilled by Amazon may be returned up to 365 days after delivery. Items should be returned in their original product packaging.

When a buyer is dissatisfied with an order we encourage you to work with the buyer to reach a mutually beneficial resolution.

To ensure a consistent experience for buyers, Amazon sellers are required to have return policies that are at least as favorable as the Amazon return policies. This means, at a minimum, you generally must allow buyers to return your products for a full refund for at least 30 days after you ship them.

To help provide the best experience for buyers, the return information in your Amazon.com Returns tab clarifies that buyers may return products to you in accordance with the Amazon return policies. The return information directs buyers to the Amazon return policies and gives buyers the ability to contact you for information about any more favorable policies that may apply.

See this Help page for more information about the Amazon.com return policies:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/?nodeId=15015721

Follow these steps to view your Returns tab on Amazon.com:

1. Find a product you sell.
2. Click the "used & new" link.
3. Find your listing and click your seller name.
4. Click the Returns tab.

However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund.

I hope this information helps. We are looking forward to seeing you again.

If you do need to contact us in the future, here's a link to our e-mail form:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/contact-us/general-questions.html

Thank you for your inquiry. Did I solve your problem?

If yes, please click here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/survey?p=A16X3XVSOL1YV0&k=hy

If no, please click here:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/survey?p=A16X3XVSOL1YV0&k=hn

Best regards,

Sweety J
Amazon.com
Your feedback is helping us build Earth's Most Customer-Centric Company.
http://www.amazon.com/your-account

if you think I had the time to make all this up then I think you have a serious problem with yourself.

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absentaneous
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Ray Sachs, May 5, 2012

I guess you can't read: their opinion is "However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund." you surely don't follow that. maybe you didn't know it but now you do. and as I wrote previously the fact that they probably don't have the time or interest to check out the actually uses of cameras doesn't mean you can abuse their policy. well, unless your morals works like: "all is ok as long as I don't get caught doing something wrong".

Ray Sachs wrote:

When I try a camera I'm unsure about, whether I get it from Amazon or anyplace else with a similar return policy, I'll generally play around with it at home for a couple of hours to make sure I understand all of the settings and then I take it out for one days shooting in as varied a set of conditions as I can find. I usually end up with 150-300 shots on it depending on various things. Then I look at and work with the files when I get back. Sometimes I'll do a few follow up shots of a specific type if the first days shooting and processing leaves me with some questions. Maybe another 30-40 shots. I've done this with several cameras over the years - and I've returned three of them, always within a week. And always well packed and in new comdition except for those exposures taken You can judge me however you'd like. I've never had a problem with the sellers though - they seem to consider this within accepted practice. Your opinion I don't care about - their's matters.

-Ray
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snapper1967
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to absentaneous, May 5, 2012

absentaneous wrote:

I guess you can't read: their opinion is "However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund." you surely don't follow that. maybe you didn't know it but now you do. and as I wrote previously the fact that they probably don't have the time or interest to check out the actually uses of cameras doesn't mean you can abuse their policy. well, unless your morals works like: "all is ok as long as I don't get caught doing something wrong".

I really hate busy bodies like you. Get a life and stop worrying about what other people do. So sad this is all you have time for!

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Kai Griffin
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to snapper1967, May 5, 2012

snapper1967 wrote:

absentaneous wrote:

I guess you can't read: their opinion is "However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund." you surely don't follow that. maybe you didn't know it but now you do. and as I wrote previously the fact that they probably don't have the time or interest to check out the actually uses of cameras doesn't mean you can abuse their policy. well, unless your morals works like: "all is ok as long as I don't get caught doing something wrong".

I really hate busy bodies like you. Get a life and stop worrying about what other people do. So sad this is all you have time for!

Absolutely right. "absentaneous", you're just being a nosy busy-body, like an old spinster aunt who stares out the screen door all day wearing a bathroom and hair-curlers, bitching about everyone that passes by. For heaven's sake, change into a frock and get out of the house!

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Ray Sachs
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Well, I suppose if you want to be literal
In reply to absentaneous, May 5, 2012

...I don't use it "several" times. I use it once or twice, three times max - that's enough for me to judge whether its something that works for me or not. I don't think the number of "times" refers to the number of actuations. Actually, I think B&H is pretty specific about the number of actuations - something like 100-150 IIRC. The one time I returned a camera to them I was only interested in low light performance (I knew the camera very well from owning its very similar predecessor) and I think I only shot about 75-80 shots.

Again, what you think is about as relevant to me as whether the mosquito you have crawling up your a$$ actually bites you or not. I deal with the companies in question, and very happily. I'm sure they're happy for my business - I'm happy for their return policies that let me try stuff with a minimum amount of risk and that leads to me doing more business with them than with places that only accept returns in the case of clear defects. They make their calculations. I make mine. You're free to make your's but they don't mean squat to me.

-Ray
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Cyclopedia Brown
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to snapper1967, May 5, 2012

As an online seller I can sympathize with Amazon or anyone who would get a item returned used that was not actually new anymore due to a few shutter clicks or however else the item may have been used.

If I were Amazon, I simply would change my policy to state that no camera could be returned with more than 50 clicks. But how do you test that? That is the problem. This isn't a dress that your girlfriend wore that special night and tucked the tags in. It is a delicate piece of equipment, that like a car, will eventually need to go in for service. Many used camera sellers actually list items with the number of shutter actuations as a selling point.

Having a camera returned simply because someone wanted to have a trial run with it sucks from a sellers perspective. I dont care how much money Amazon has in their bank account. That isn't the point. If it were a mom and pop shop I doubt people would feel as comfortable making these kinds of trial run returns.

Simply stated... Buying a camera to test it out is probably morally wrong. Find a camera store with a display model to try, or an owner who wouldn't mind letting you shoot a few shots, or just rent it.

I know it's a new camera on the market, but a patient person should be able to handle waiting for reviews or display models, etc. There is no need to play the role of "early adopter" when you really aren't mentally built to handle not liking the camera. New Used cameras like the X-Pro1 can be listed as lightly used back on Amazon or Ebay or Craigslist and sell for maybe $50 less than the selling price (less than the price of a rental probably). And if it is difficult to get your hands on it may even increase in value. Resell it, but do not return it. That is my opinion...

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linusto
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Kai Griffin, May 5, 2012

+1. This is ridiculous. 'abstentacious', who is to say that Amazon doesn't check the returned cameras for number of shots taken. Do you know for a fact that they don't? Perhaps they are generally comfortable with the way most camera customers try the gear within a short period of time, irrespective of number of clicks within reason. Their concept of reason and definition of 'several' might be very different than yours or mine. I, like Ray Sachs and others on this forum, essentially govern myself by how Amazon responds. I'm not gaming the system. I buy with the intent to keep unless I am not satisfied with the product. Henry's, the major camera gear store here in Canada, has essentially the same policy. They examine the returned gear and it has to be spotless for full money back return. I have purchased from them almost exclusively because of their policy, in effect becoming a loyal, long term purchaser. It's a relationship that develops over time that a successful retailer is looking to covet. Perhaps this is what Amazon's gracious return policy is all about. And it must be working for them. What few 'true abusers' there are must be in the absolute minority. Abuse of this system in my mind is when someone buys with no intention to keep, ie. in effect renting for free. This is unethical. So, really, those who want to criticize us, please get off your high horse and find a true moral cause to take up. I'll respect you more if you do.

Kai Griffin wrote:

snapper1967 wrote:

absentaneous wrote:

I guess you can't read: their opinion is "However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund." you surely don't follow that. maybe you didn't know it but now you do. and as I wrote previously the fact that they probably don't have the time or interest to check out the actually uses of cameras doesn't mean you can abuse their policy. well, unless your morals works like: "all is ok as long as I don't get caught doing something wrong".

I really hate busy bodies like you. Get a life and stop worrying about what other people do. So sad this is all you have time for!

Absolutely right. "absentaneous", you're just being a nosy busy-body, like an old spinster aunt who stares out the screen door all day wearing a bathroom and hair-curlers, bitching about everyone that passes by. For heaven's sake, change into a frock and get out of the house!

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jpmac55
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Cyclopedia Brown, May 5, 2012

Cyclopedia Brown wrote:

As an online seller I can sympathize with Amazon or anyone who would get a item returned used that was not actually new anymore due to a few shutter clicks or however else the item may have been used.

If I were Amazon, I simply would change my policy to state that no camera could be returned with more than 50 clicks. But how do you test that? That is the problem. This isn't a dress that your girlfriend wore that special night and tucked the tags in. It is a delicate piece of equipment, that like a car, will eventually need to go in for service. Many used camera sellers actually list items with the number of shutter actuations as a selling point.

Having a camera returned simply because someone wanted to have a trial run with it sucks from a sellers perspective. I dont care how much money Amazon has in their bank account. That isn't the point. If it were a mom and pop shop I doubt people would feel as comfortable making these kinds of trial run returns.

Simply stated... Buying a camera to test it out is probably morally wrong. Find a camera store with a display model to try, or an owner who wouldn't mind letting you shoot a few shots, or just rent it.

I know it's a new camera on the market, but a patient person should be able to handle waiting for reviews or display models, etc. There is no need to play the role of "early adopter" when you really aren't mentally built to handle not liking the camera. New Used cameras like the X-Pro1 can be listed as lightly used back on Amazon or Ebay or Craigslist and sell for maybe $50 less than the selling price (less than the price of a rental probably). And if it is difficult to get your hands on it may even increase in value. Resell it, but do not return it. That is my opinion...

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Cyclopedia Creative Media
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Chi "Cyclopedia" Brown
http://CyclopediaCreativeMedia.com

I mostly agree. I would never return a camera unless it is flawed. Returning a camera because I just don't like it isn't me. I'll sell, trade or keep it and promise myself to do more research next time.

So I wonder if those returning cameras would mind terribly if their next new camera was actually gently used? Who knew?

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John

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chopsteeks
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to PJInTheUSA, May 5, 2012

Is the OP lying ?

Why are you accusing him/her of lying ?

Copy 'n paste actual wording pls...

Show some maturity and class......

PJInTheUSA wrote:

"However, this doesn't means that you can use the camera for several times and the return for a refund. The item to be return must be in a new condition or else you'll be issued partial refund."

And you copy and pasted that text from the amazon email. I don't think so.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Cyclopedia Brown, May 5, 2012

Cyclopedia Brown wrote:

Having a camera returned simply because someone wanted to have a trial run with it sucks from a sellers perspective. I dont care how much money Amazon has in their bank account. That isn't the point. If it were a mom and pop shop I doubt people would feel as comfortable making these kinds of trial run returns.

Simply stated... Buying a camera to test it out is probably morally wrong. Find a camera store with a display model to try, or an owner who wouldn't mind letting you shoot a few shots, or just rent it.

I know it's a new camera on the market, but a patient person should be able to handle waiting for reviews or display models, etc. There is no need to play the role of "early adopter" when you really aren't mentally built to handle not liking the camera. New Used cameras like the X-Pro1 can be listed as lightly used back on Amazon or Ebay or Craigslist and sell for maybe $50 less than the selling price (less than the price of a rental probably). And if it is difficult to get your hands on it may even increase in value. Resell it, but do not return it. That is my opinion...

Cyclopedia,

I understand your perspective but I disagree with it. These companies establish their policies with their eyes open. Some decide to only accept returns on clearly defective items. Others have a "satisfaction" guarantee. These are very different things. I recently spent a month in New York. Very early in that stay I went in to B&H and bought a camera bag. I used it HARD for about three weeks. I did not keep the packing or the receipt. As far as I was concerned I owned it and would not have asked anyone to take it back. Toward the end of my stay, because I evidently can't control my camera buying addiction ( ), I wanted a larger bag. So I piled me gear into the bag I'd initially bought and walked up to B&H. I bought the larger larger version of the bag and then, wanting to head out for a day's shooting, figured I'd ask their used department (which had several used bags on display) if they'd give me a few dollars for the old bag. I didn't have any other use for it and didn't want to walk back to my apartment just to stash the bag and it wasn't an expensive item anyway and not worth trying to sell in New York or carrying home on the train with me. The used folks asked me where I'd gotten it and how long I'd had it. I told them. They called the "returns" department and sent me down there. I insisted that I'd used the bag pretty hard for three weeks and hadn't saved any of the packing gear or receipt and that I wasn't asking for a refund. But they insisted that if I'd bought it from them and wasn't entirely satisfied with it for WHATEVER reason, they would take it back and give me a refund within 30 days - this was at maybe day 23 or 24. They found the receipt in their system and gave me a full refund/credit for it, despite my objections.

They have this policy for a reason. I've been a loyal B&H customer for years and I'm certain to remain a loyal B&H customer for many more years. They know that for the little bit of money they may lose on an occasional return, they're going to make considerably more from my repeat business. And they're right. Now, this was an item I had not treated like something I wanted to check out before deciding if I'd keep it - I assumed it was mine and I used it like I would any other bag. It wasn't damaged, but it didn't look like brand new condition either. If it had been mail order I'd never have returned it, but since I was there, they pretty much insisted on taking it back for full credit. B&H has decided to go much farther in their return policy than I would ever ask. With camera's its different - they do have a specific number of actuations in their policy, but they clearly count on a certain number of returns and they know that this policy will lead to repeat business.

Hence, I don't find anything "immoral" about it. I'm sure there are abusers who's actions I would consider immoral, but I doubt there are many (and I'd bet B&H is pretty good at spotting with them and dealing with them). I try to stay well within the spirit of the policy. I do my research before I ever buy a camera, and I often know more about an item than the sales person I talk to about it. But at the end of the day, despite everything I've read, there's no substitute for actually using a camera and seeing the results to know if its going to work for YOU. The numbers are kind of meaningless if it just doesn't work for how you shoot. Sometimes you can tell from what you read - sometimes you're not quite sure. I never buy a camera with the intent of returning it. But I always check it out in a fairly methodical way when I get it, careful to keep it in perfect condition. On three occasions out of many, I have taken advantage of these policies and returned them well within the prescribed time - they pretty much all specify a month and I've always returned them within a few days - that's as long as it takes for me to know whether its a good fit or not.

These policies work for me. They clearly work for the retailers too. If they stop working for the retailers, they'll change them. In the meantime, I find nothing immoral about using them as intended. These policies are very clear and are there for everyone's benefit. If you don't choose to take advantage of these policies, that's fine and I certainly wouldn't condemn you but I don't consider you "extra-moral" either. They're there for a reason and they tend to work as desired.

-Ray
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pkincy
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Ray Sachs, May 5, 2012

Jeesh, get a life folks.

Amazon has a liberal return policy as part of its business model. Some will take more advantage of that than others. Amazon knows this.

Costco used to have a virtually unlimited return policy on electronics. Soon a segment of the population would buy a computer, use it for a half or full year and return it for a full refund and than buy the updated model. Computers modernize much faster than cameras.

Costco realized that they had to modify that policy to continue to make handsome profits and they did. Their return policy on cameras and computers is still quite liberal. In fact it is 90 days which is 3 times Amazon's length of time.

If they sold high end cameras you could buy an XPro 1, use it for 3 months, than take it back for full refund and buy an OM D and use it for 3 months, take it back for a full refund and than buy a Leica M10 and use it for 3 months. Take that back and you have spent nothing for having a camera for 9 months.

Would I do that? No, but if someone did, they would not be in the wrong or creating a moral crime.

You buy from companies that have rules and procedures you like.

Perry

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linusto
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Ray Sachs, May 5, 2012

Very well articulated.

Ray Sachs wrote:

Cyclopedia Brown wrote:

Having a camera returned simply because someone wanted to have a trial run with it sucks from a sellers perspective. I dont care how much money Amazon has in their bank account. That isn't the point. If it were a mom and pop shop I doubt people would feel as comfortable making these kinds of trial run returns.

Simply stated... Buying a camera to test it out is probably morally wrong. Find a camera store with a display model to try, or an owner who wouldn't mind letting you shoot a few shots, or just rent it.

I know it's a new camera on the market, but a patient person should be able to handle waiting for reviews or display models, etc. There is no need to play the role of "early adopter" when you really aren't mentally built to handle not liking the camera. New Used cameras like the X-Pro1 can be listed as lightly used back on Amazon or Ebay or Craigslist and sell for maybe $50 less than the selling price (less than the price of a rental probably). And if it is difficult to get your hands on it may even increase in value. Resell it, but do not return it. That is my opinion...

Cyclopedia,

I understand your perspective but I disagree with it. These companies establish their policies with their eyes open. Some decide to only accept returns on clearly defective items. Others have a "satisfaction" guarantee. These are very different things. I recently spent a month in New York. Very early in that stay I went in to B&H and bought a camera bag. I used it HARD for about three weeks. I did not keep the packing or the receipt. As far as I was concerned I owned it and would not have asked anyone to take it back. Toward the end of my stay, because I evidently can't control my camera buying addiction ( ), I wanted a larger bag. So I piled me gear into the bag I'd initially bought and walked up to B&H. I bought the larger larger version of the bag and then, wanting to head out for a day's shooting, figured I'd ask their used department (which had several used bags on display) if they'd give me a few dollars for the old bag. I didn't have any other use for it and didn't want to walk back to my apartment just to stash the bag and it wasn't an expensive item anyway and not worth trying to sell in New York or carrying home on the train with me. The used folks asked me where I'd gotten it and how long I'd had it. I told them. They called the "returns" department and sent me down there. I insisted that I'd used the bag pretty hard for three weeks and hadn't saved any of the packing gear or receipt and that I wasn't asking for a refund. But they insisted that if I'd bought it from them and wasn't entirely satisfied with it for WHATEVER reason, they would take it back and give me a refund within 30 days - this was at maybe day 23 or 24. They found the receipt in their system and gave me a full refund/credit for it, despite my objections.

They have this policy for a reason. I've been a loyal B&H customer for years and I'm certain to remain a loyal B&H customer for many more years. They know that for the little bit of money they may lose on an occasional return, they're going to make considerably more from my repeat business. And they're right. Now, this was an item I had not treated like something I wanted to check out before deciding if I'd keep it - I assumed it was mine and I used it like I would any other bag. It wasn't damaged, but it didn't look like brand new condition either. If it had been mail order I'd never have returned it, but since I was there, they pretty much insisted on taking it back for full credit. B&H has decided to go much farther in their return policy than I would ever ask. With camera's its different - they do have a specific number of actuations in their policy, but they clearly count on a certain number of returns and they know that this policy will lead to repeat business.

Hence, I don't find anything "immoral" about it. I'm sure there are abusers who's actions I would consider immoral, but I doubt there are many (and I'd bet B&H is pretty good at spotting with them and dealing with them). I try to stay well within the spirit of the policy. I do my research before I ever buy a camera, and I often know more about an item than the sales person I talk to about it. But at the end of the day, despite everything I've read, there's no substitute for actually using a camera and seeing the results to know if its going to work for YOU. The numbers are kind of meaningless if it just doesn't work for how you shoot. Sometimes you can tell from what you read - sometimes you're not quite sure. I never buy a camera with the intent of returning it. But I always check it out in a fairly methodical way when I get it, careful to keep it in perfect condition. On three occasions out of many, I have taken advantage of these policies and returned them well within the prescribed time - they pretty much all specify a month and I've always returned them within a few days - that's as long as it takes for me to know whether its a good fit or not.

These policies work for me. They clearly work for the retailers too. If they stop working for the retailers, they'll change them. In the meantime, I find nothing immoral about using them as intended. These policies are very clear and are there for everyone's benefit. If you don't choose to take advantage of these policies, that's fine and I certainly wouldn't condemn you but I don't consider you "extra-moral" either. They're there for a reason and they tend to work as desired.

-Ray
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

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absentaneous
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to snapper1967, May 5, 2012

you are missing the point. I am not worrying about other people but about general morals that in the end can also affect my life. I don't really care what you do as long as what you do doesn't harm me. when it does I surely want to take time to explain you that what you are doing is not right if you happen to think it is.

so, what I hate though is people who don't understand simple things, people who have low moral standards or are generally ignorant to the interests of others and who think they can do anything just because someone doesn't explicitly tell them they can't and who in every situation only think what is best for them - to put it simply I hate selfishness.

I really hate busy bodies like you. Get a life and stop worrying about what other people do. So sad this is all you have time for!

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absentaneous
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to Kai Griffin, May 5, 2012

I surely am that for someone with low or no morals. and I am proud of it. I am also glad that people like you are now doing nothing but trying ad-homini attacks on me which clearly tells me one thing - my arguments nailed it. and since you have nothing much to oppose me with you prefer to just insult me. like that would make you be right. I did that too, when I was 2 years old, so I understand how a kid feels about these things.

Absolutely right. "absentaneous", you're just being a nosy busy-body, like an old spinster aunt who stares out the screen door all day wearing a bathroom and hair-curlers, bitching about everyone that passes by. For heaven's sake, change into a frock and get out of the house!

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linusto
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Re: I sent my Fuji back :-( part 2.
In reply to jpmac55, May 5, 2012

The risk of buying from certain (not all) retailers that have fairly liberal return policies is that you might in fact receive one that is 'very gently' used. Fair enough. However this consideration needs to be balanced against the ability to return the product oneself if dissatisfied. If you are concerned about buying gently used in those circumstances and are the type of person who doesn't need to have a 'return policy' as such, then buy from a retailer that doesn't allow returns. It's a free market. Purchase accordingly. Vote with your dollars.

jpmac55 wrote:

Cyclopedia Brown wrote:

As an online seller I can sympathize with Amazon or anyone who would get a item returned used that was not actually new anymore due to a few shutter clicks or however else the item may have been used.

If I were Amazon, I simply would change my policy to state that no camera could be returned with more than 50 clicks. But how do you test that? That is the problem. This isn't a dress that your girlfriend wore that special night and tucked the tags in. It is a delicate piece of equipment, that like a car, will eventually need to go in for service. Many used camera sellers actually list items with the number of shutter actuations as a selling point.

Having a camera returned simply because someone wanted to have a trial run with it sucks from a sellers perspective. I dont care how much money Amazon has in their bank account. That isn't the point. If it were a mom and pop shop I doubt people would feel as comfortable making these kinds of trial run returns.

Simply stated... Buying a camera to test it out is probably morally wrong. Find a camera store with a display model to try, or an owner who wouldn't mind letting you shoot a few shots, or just rent it.

I know it's a new camera on the market, but a patient person should be able to handle waiting for reviews or display models, etc. There is no need to play the role of "early adopter" when you really aren't mentally built to handle not liking the camera. New Used cameras like the X-Pro1 can be listed as lightly used back on Amazon or Ebay or Craigslist and sell for maybe $50 less than the selling price (less than the price of a rental probably). And if it is difficult to get your hands on it may even increase in value. Resell it, but do not return it. That is my opinion...

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Cyclopedia Creative Media
"Ideas that speak volumes"
Chi "Cyclopedia" Brown
http://CyclopediaCreativeMedia.com

I mostly agree. I would never return a camera unless it is flawed. Returning a camera because I just don't like it isn't me. I'll sell, trade or keep it and promise myself to do more research next time.

So I wonder if those returning cameras would mind terribly if their next new camera was actually gently used? Who knew?

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John

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