Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.

Started May 5, 2012 | Discussions
Torch
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Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
May 5, 2012

An inevidable development and if an E-PL3 can have it so can a NEX.
--

Torch

Olympus PEN E-PL3
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DtEW
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Torch, May 5, 2012

You do know that the E-PL3 uses a 40% smaller sensor, and that its IBIS is actually dysfunctional (that is, causes pictures to become blurry), right?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40923997

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dquangt
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stop making sense
In reply to DtEW, May 5, 2012

stop making sense, people 'round here don't wanna hear it. they are too busy comparing apples to oranges. j/k

lol.

DtEW wrote:

You do know that the E-PL3 uses a 40% smaller sensor, and that its IBIS is actually dysfunctional (that is, causes pictures to become blurry), right?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40923997

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TiagoReil
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Torch, May 5, 2012

If you really need IBIS don't get into the NEX system. It has been stated by sony that they didn't include it for several reasons. Size, heat, were some of them. If the technology of IBIS doesn't change radically in the near future, don't expect to have it in any nex camera. It is pretty obvious it wont happen.

Torch wrote:

An inevidable development and if an E-PL3 can have it so can a NEX.
--

Torch

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Nell27
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Torch, May 5, 2012

Like most things, IBIS isn't perfect.

It does have the obvious advantages of being able to mount any lens and having a stabilized platform and it does provide a second advantage because non stabilized lenses are usually cheaper than their stabilized counterparts.

There are also a couple of disadvantages: Cameras will increase in price and IBIS is not as effective as lens stabilization.

Guess we'll just have to wait and see what Sony decides to do.

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Nell27
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to DtEW, May 5, 2012

DtEW wrote:

You do know that the E-PL3 uses a 40% smaller sensor, and that its IBIS is actually dysfunctional (that is, causes pictures to become blurry), right?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1041&message=40923997

Interesting.

IBIS seems to work just fine on many different cameras. I wonder why this guy is having so much trouble with his Olympus?

I had an E-P2 for about a year and IBIS worked with no problems. The one thing you had to do (according to the Olympus manual) was shut off the IBIS if you were using a stabilized lens. Basically the manual said that the two systems would not work properly together and could cause blurring.

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DtEW
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Nell27, May 5, 2012

It seems to be more than just him. I actually found the DPR thread through a google search of "E-PL3 IBIS crippled" (or some other adjective, such as "broken"). There are quite a few legit hits. I remembered the search phase because it was something an m43 forum member said in passing.

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RussellInCincinnati
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heavier, smaller sensor EPL3 is no guidepost
In reply to Torch, May 5, 2012

The fact that a heavier camera than the Nex C3, with a smaller sensor than the Nex, has in-body stabilization, does not suggest to me that an obvious good thing for Sony to do with the Nex is complexify it mechanically with in-body stabilization.

I'm sure that there are some people who (a) would otherwise really want a Nex, but (b) won't buy one because they'd want to use it with camera stabilization, (c) because they want to use some lens besides the stabilized Sony 50mm/1.8 and the Sony eMount zooms and other stabilized lenses that are available thus far. And (d) don't overcome their revulsion to the Nex's lack of this now-vital body feature, merely because say a Nex C3 is the smallest, lightest interchangeable lens APS-C sensor camera in the world whose output we often have trouble distinguishing from that of a Nikon D4.

Hard to believe that Sony is smart enough to invent a Nex, but not smart enough to have already factored that above lost group of souls into their decision tradeoff decisions.

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Nell27
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to DtEW, May 5, 2012

DtEW wrote:

It seems to be more than just him. I actually found the DPR thread through a google search of "E-PL3 IBIS crippled" (or some other adjective, such as "broken"). There are quite a few legit hits. I remembered the search phase because it was something an m43 forum member said in passing.

Evidently there's something wrong with that particular model camera. Other cameras with IBIS work without problems.

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Zamac
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to TiagoReil, May 5, 2012

TiagoReil wrote:

If you really need IBIS don't get into the NEX system. It has been stated by sony that they didn't include it for several reasons. Size, heat, were some of them. If the technology of IBIS doesn't change radically in the near future, don't expect to have it in any nex camera. It is pretty obvious it wont happen.

  • The main advantage of optical stabilization is that it provides a stabilized view in the OVF. This does not apply to NEX.

  • OIS does keep the camera smaller, though I would be happy to have the NEX7x with IBIS even if it made the body a few cm thicker.

  • IBIS is more flexible than OIS in terms of 3D movement

  • The heat generated by IBIS is probably negligible in comparison to the processor.

  • Don't expect IBIS in NEX - wait for the larger A9 if you really need it

  • Maybe, just maybe, a variant of the video active stabilization could be implemented in a NEX-7 - if you are prepared to drop to 12MP

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forpetessake
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to TiagoReil, May 5, 2012

TiagoReil wrote:

If you really need IBIS don't get into the NEX system. It has been stated by sony that they didn't include it for several reasons. Size, heat, were some of them. If the technology of IBIS doesn't change radically in the near future, don't expect to have it in any nex camera. It is pretty obvious it wont happen.

Haven't heard anything like that from any credible sources. It's definitely not true, the IBIS in Olympus OM-D is probably better than in any optically stabilized lens, and the camera isn't any heavier than other: 425g compared to 5N 465g, and reportedly the battery lasts longer than most cameras. On the opposite, optical stabilization adds quite a lot of weight, price, and power consumption, and taking into account that it's repeated in every length the difference can be quite significant.

The reason is likely not any problems with IBIS per se, but simply the fact that the other manufacturers are not capable of producing a good quality in camera stabilization, but that's likely to change in the future, because IBIS has so many advantages.

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dennis tennis
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Re: heavier, smaller sensor EPL3 is no guidepost
In reply to RussellInCincinnati, May 5, 2012

but Sony is able to implement IBIS for the much more complex Full Frame A900?

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youngG
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Torch, May 5, 2012

If the "SR5" rumors over at sonyalpharumors are true, then I fully expect a future NEX to have IBIS. They've said many times Sony is working on a "hybid mount" (A + E mount) camera. If we're dealing with the flange distance of A-Mount, then Sony would do well to include IBIS in such a camera.

But I don't see Sony releasing an e-mount only cam with IBIS - for many of the reasons mentioned already

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Reemul
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Zamac, May 5, 2012

I love comments like the below

  • The heat generated by IBIS is probably negligible in comparison to the processor.

I mean some stranger on an internet forums making it seem that he knows all about ibis and heat generation on the aps-c sensor along with being an expert in it and the fact it's negligible and that the Sony R&D has no idea what it's talking about.

The internet is full of experts on every such topic

Zamac wrote:

TiagoReil wrote:

If you really need IBIS don't get into the NEX system. It has been stated by sony that they didn't include it for several reasons. Size, heat, were some of them. If the technology of IBIS doesn't change radically in the near future, don't expect to have it in any nex camera. It is pretty obvious it wont happen.

  • The main advantage of optical stabilization is that it provides a stabilized view in the OVF. This does not apply to NEX.

  • OIS does keep the camera smaller, though I would be happy to have the NEX7x with IBIS even if it made the body a few cm thicker.

  • IBIS is more flexible than OIS in terms of 3D movement

  • The heat generated by IBIS is probably negligible in comparison to the processor.

  • Don't expect IBIS in NEX - wait for the larger A9 if you really need it

  • Maybe, just maybe, a variant of the video active stabilization could be implemented in a NEX-7 - if you are prepared to drop to 12MP

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Reemul
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Re: heavier, smaller sensor EPL3 is no guidepost
In reply to dennis tennis, May 5, 2012

Same point applies, the body is SO MUCH BIGGER it allows for easier heat dissapation, once again don't let the facts get in teh way of a good point eh.

dennis tennis wrote:

but Sony is able to implement IBIS for the much more complex Full Frame A900?

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odobo
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Zamac, May 5, 2012

Zamac wrote:

  • The heat generated by IBIS is probably negligible in comparison to the processor.

while I am not sure if heat generated by IBIS is negligible in comparison to the processor, I do know that the IBIS motor will more likely be much closer to the sensor than the processor, meaning more heat will transfer to the sensor than if it is not there.

negligible compare to the processor... maybe
negligible heat on the sensor? not likely

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pabloban
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to DtEW, May 5, 2012

Are you aware, that SONY makes FULLFRAME SENSORS WITH IBIS?

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pabloban
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to Reemul, May 5, 2012

SONY is just a profit hunting electronics company. They don't care about features that can contribute to taking photos. They care about profit and effectivity. Placing OSS in lenses is always more profit making than making a mirrorless camera with IBIS. So don't defend their R&D people as if you would know them. They just don't want to, thats all.

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swixtwix
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Re: heavier, smaller sensor EPL3 is no guidepost
In reply to dennis tennis, May 5, 2012

...And the A900 is a larger body than the NEX cameras.

I guess I should state that I'm assuming some sort of mechanical rather than solid state IBIS. Software based IBIS would lose some of the resolution from the sensor. I had a Canon camcorder with IS and it as done by buffering a few lines top and bottom to compensate... it worked for the most, but it probably wasn't optimal since it was a pretty cheap camcorder.

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gfrensen
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Re: Sony's NEX Move is IBIS.
In reply to pabloban, May 5, 2012

pabloban wrote:

SONY is just a profit hunting electronics company. They don't care about features that can contribute to taking photos. They care about profit and effectivity. Placing OSS in lenses is always more profit making than making a mirrorless camera with IBIS. So don't defend their R&D people as if you would know them. They just don't want to, thats all.

Well you are right about Sony being a company that wanting profit, but ALL companies are, or the will live not very long.

About IBIS: is IBIS possible in a Nex camera? YES!
Is it the best thing to do? Maybe not!
Look at all the other mirrorless brands and see the following:
1. NIKON: ILIS
2. Panasonic: ILIS
3. Samsung: ILIS
4. Sony: ILIS

5. Pentax: IBIS (in their very small sensored Q and in their DSLR camera with removed mirror)
6. Olympus: IBIS

7. Fuji: NO stabilization (at the moment, otherwise ILIS)

Wonder why 5 of the 7 are using ILIS. Wonder why the movie mode with IBIS in some of the Sony SLT cameras is very limmited in time to prevent heating up the sensor to much, and the video time is a lot longer when not using IBIS... And as you call it, Sony wants to make a healthyn profit, so it could sell more cameras when they put in a good working IBIS in videomode...

So I think IBIS or ILISn have both their strong and weak points making it jusrt a matter of choice. And Sony took ILIS over IBIS for their mirrorless, like 4 others.

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