Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems

Started May 4, 2012 | Discussions
Bruce Bracken
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to studio460, May 4, 2012

studio460 wrote:

I haven't read through the entire thread to see if this has already been linked yet, but for those of you who haven't seen this, here's a link to an article from the fstoppers' site, where Nikon appears to admit to a verified auto-focus issue with the D800:

http://fstoppers.com/news-nikon-d800-has-confirmed-focusview-finder-issues

This announcement is specific to a problem with the viewfinder itself, not with the actual autofocus.

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D800
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Re: Fact: a significant number of D800 and D4 present some important
In reply to Dominique Dierick, May 4, 2012

Sure, there is fallout for any product but how Nikon deals with this fallout is unacceptable in this modern world. Denial of serious production issue from support centers and "ninja" fix it are exactly what Nikon's doing now. We are in 21st, not 17/18 centuries.

Dominique Dierick wrote:

Define significant: how many on how much production? If you don't have the numbers, your comment is not serious.

You may want to read what Tom Hogan writes about it, and he is right. In any production process there is fallout unless you are prepared to pay the double for the camera and wait even longer. Fallout reduces over time. In general 5% is not that bad for initial production runs. On estimated 30.000 produced cameras, that can stir up things in fora for sure.

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D800
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 4, 2012

FYI, I reported this issue along with others to Engadget and they immediately posted this:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/05/04/nikon-confirms-woes-with-d4-and-d800/

"The company also verified that a "run" of D800s is suffering from a viewfinder bug, although it has yet to confirm another emerging problem with autofocus in some units, which apparently requires a factory fix. So, if you've noticed any of this with your pricey new D800, or really pricey D4, your best bet might be to reach out to your Nikon repair center post-haste."

Bruce Bracken wrote:

studio460 wrote:

I haven't read through the entire thread to see if this has already been linked yet, but for those of you who haven't seen this, here's a link to an article from the fstoppers' site, where Nikon appears to admit to a verified auto-focus issue with the D800:

http://fstoppers.com/news-nikon-d800-has-confirmed-focusview-finder-issues

This announcement is specific to a problem with the viewfinder itself, not with the actual autofocus.

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Dominique Dierick
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Re: Fact: a significant number of D800 and D4 present some important
In reply to D800, May 4, 2012

Sending it in and getting it fixed is still a good service no? What can be blamed on Nikon is that not all support/service centers were prepared for it. It obviously caught them by surprise. Given there likely are few cameras with the problem on the total amount, if I were Nikon, I would just repair the faulty ones that get send in - after teaching the local service people the right skills needed, with the right tools. That they can be fixed is already clear now. Just not yet everywhere it seems.

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JoshRtek
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 4, 2012

I just received my D4 from Amazon on Wednesday (May 2nd). I only own 4 four lenses, by here are my findings so far:

1.) Nikon 24mm f/1.4G

-Sharp in the center focus point, and right, but the left is fairly blurry. Adjusting the Fine Tune to -20 seems to correct the left-most focus point without affecting the center and right.

2.) Nikon 50mm f/1.4 G

-Needed a +3 on the AF Fine Tune. Center was always sharp, though giving it a +3 helped both the left and right come into focus.

3.) Nikon 105mm Macro VR

-No Adjustment Needed

4.) Nikon 28-300mm

-No Adjustment Needed

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Press Correspondent
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LOL!
In reply to nunatak, May 4, 2012

And if you bought rotten eggs, make sure to keep them too, unless they are rotten black, in which case return them only after three attempts to wash them and deodorize. Especially so if you paid a few grand for this pleasure.

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Toxa
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 4, 2012

A few comments about this thread, like anybody cares:

  • In Nikon's "defence", keep in mind this David is just a Manager. When things escalate to a Director I guess/hope they will handle properly;

  • Shocked that some posters here cannot distance themselves and talk about the (alleged but probable) problem without blindingly defending Nikon - it fails sometimes, like anything else. Apple fanboy syndrome...

  • Those that think 1% (5%!) defect rate is acceptable might be great photographers, or small entrepreneurs (not for long...), but are out of touch with the corporate world reality. "Poor guys, think about the flooding" is BS, either you guarantee quality or don't ship;

  • Thanks for this post, I made my mind: there's been enough noise about D800 to prompt me postponing the purchase. At least 2 more posters in this thread alone will postpone or give up. For those that will reply "Thank you", you're welcome! In Nikon's shoes, I would not be cool with that though (go study business if you simplify by saying "demand right now is bigger than supply so it doesn't matter");

  • IMO Nikon handled the whole project poorly: they'll have great quarter results, but could have been even greater if they worked the supply chain competently, they had very lax QA (or worse, a bad project) and are behaving like any other Japanese company: dismissing a problem.

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reginalddwight
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Class action?
In reply to D800, May 4, 2012

Too premature for a class action, no?

Give Nikon some time to trouble-shoot the outer AF point problem affecting some D800 and D4 bodies before pursuing this route.

They may not publicly admit the problem, but I hope their engineers are hard at work trying to come up with a solution.

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Oscarroos
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Re: No D4/D800 sent to Nikon for this problem has been returned satisfactory
In reply to david357, May 4, 2012

I have been following this long thread fairly neutral but not registering the camera so you can resell it at a higher price with warranty is ............ Fill in the blank but my sympathy just went out the door. Wow.

david357 wrote:

Bruce Bracken wrote:

Not to mention the fact that sending my 40-day old camera in forces me to register the warranty, which will kill the resale value.

So how long do you keep your camera before registering the warranty - if it kills resale value then you must be trying to sell used bodies with full warranties?

Double standards?

Nikon have offered to look at your camera for you, and with due respect I would not be happy to take images from an user as evidence of camera mis-focus, as it is possible that the tests were not set up correctly by the user.

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cameracommando
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Leonard: You could try being more constructive
In reply to jonstatt, May 4, 2012

Leonard could not, has not, and will not provide said target. If he did, there would be no wiggle room for his assertions. Let's keep it nebulous, eh, mr. p.59? I've read his rejections for years, and must say that at least he is consistent. Bring on the target! No excuses... if there is no issue except the operator and his lack of basic focusing skills, then there MUST be a target somewhere that somebody can quantifiably focus on.

Since you seem to be the only one that can understand everything that DOESN'T work for a target, bring on the one that does. No hocus pocus, smoke and mirrors explanation over why it can't be done, just a simple focus target that can't be dismissed by you or p. 59.

Bring on the target!
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D800
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Re: Leonard: You could try being more constructive
In reply to cameracommando, May 4, 2012

cameracommando wrote:

Leonard could not, has not, and will not provide said target. If he did, there would be no wiggle room for his assertions. Let's keep it nebulous, eh, mr. p.59? I've read his rejections for years, and must say that at least he is consistent. Bring on the target! No excuses... if there is no issue except the operator and his lack of basic focusing skills, then there MUST be a target somewhere that somebody can quantifiably focus on.

Since you seem to be the only one that can understand everything that DOESN'T work for a target, bring on the one that does. No hocus pocus, smoke and mirrors explanation over why it can't be done, just a simple focus target that can't be dismissed by you or p. 59.

Bring on the target!
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Awesome comment!

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studio460
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 4, 2012

Yes, I re-read the story, and Nikon, in fact, did not explicitly state there was an AF issue, but I thought that since the subject of the article also reported focus issues, and that since the article's "update" also included Nikon's amended response to the customer's replacement status, that there may have been an implicit admission that there may also be a legitimate AF issue as well.

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Raul
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Now they lock?
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 5, 2012
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faterikcartman
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to Leonard Shepherd, May 5, 2012

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

faterikcartman wrote:

Look at Leonard: he posts the same link over and over and he doesn't even understand it. (Leonard, not only was the other person who posted their experience asking Nikon about it correct, but even if symmetrical objects were the problem as you state above, circles of different size and colour are not symmetrical.)

Are you posting mis information a second time?

I posted a good reason why symmetric circles sometimes cause AF to mis focus similar to occasional mis focus with window patterns; in my reply less than an hour ago headed try learning the basics of AF for yourself.

In that thread I was part responding to your significantly mis quoting Nikon's guidance "Where the subject is dominated by regular geometric patterns".

You seem not to like my quoting Nikon's guidance - and try moving the goalposts to a target which may not be symmetrical.

If the spacing between the circles is similar (it is with different size circles used in LensAlign) then it is a symmetric pattern despite the different circle sizes

AF does not detect colour as colour, it detects contrast.

For that matter sensors do not detect final colour either. Sensors take measurements from 3 different colour filters over individual pixels and interpolate to get a colour as we see it.

If AF needed at least 3 different coloured filters above several pixels on each detection point on each AF detection line to work AF accurately; it would be much more complex, more expensive to make, the information would take longer to process and focus tracking would be slower.

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Leonard Shepherd

99% of photo equipment is good or very good. The main thing to do with it is to learn to use it well.

Dude, you're a crazy guy. Different size circles are not a regular geometric pattern that equals a symmetrical pattern and your post I was referring to said:

Leonard Shepherd wrote:

There is no question Nikon tell you in the D800 instructions symmetrical patterns may result in AF not working as you expect.

The "test target" you paid good money for is clearly a symmetrical pattern which Nikon caution can sometimes result in AF not working as you expect.

Moreover, not only are you crazy IMO, you are also dim witted. I never said colour was used by the focusing system. Are you a beginning English reader? I was pointing out you don't understand the meaning of the word symmetry. And you don't.

Nor do you understand the meaning of the Nikon example you post all over this forum. Does the example include a building with a bunch of windows that are different sizes? Or does it show a building with a repeating geometric pattern where all the window sizes are identical? Do you look at the Lens Align target and see a repeating pattern of identically sized circles? You must if you keep insisting it is a symmetrical pattern and equates to the building example in your Nikon link. That makes you, in my opinion, crazy, dim, or both.

So maybe you've got a lot of time on your hands and you can read a lot of things, but that doesn't mean you're able to process it and understand it correctly.

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faterikcartman
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to xrdbear, May 5, 2012

xrdbear wrote:

faterikcartman wrote:

Wow. Recently read the owner of Lens Rentals talk about problems with lenses that they know are correctable but where Nikon's response is "withing specifications". I too have a crapload of money tied up in Nikon. But once you buy that glass you're almost a prisoner.

But come on, can that guy be serious that that kind of focusing is okay? Are we talking from your center focus point? There are any number of point and shoots that do better.

Point and shoots have small sensors and huge depth of field. Most of these reported problems are with wide aperture lens giving extremely small depth of field which amplifies any inaccuracies. You are not even close to comparing like with like.
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Of course depth of field is inversely proportional to format size, and I wasn't suggesting it was a comparison of like with like -- just the opposite. Given that I've never measured it it is good to know no point and shoot can focus more accurately than 3" -- thanks for the info. I guess I should have said something like I can think of full frame cameras from my EOS 1 to my D700 that could hit that focus point more accurately with the center focus point. Which, I suppose, would have been a pointed remark since the D4 is supposed to have an improved Multi-CAM 3500 focus module vs. the D700. But, frankly, given my irritation with Nikon, "point and shoot" sounded much more dramatic.

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Drizmond
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to faterikcartman, May 5, 2012

Sorry to hear about these focus issues, especially on a high end camera. It seems Nikon is letting each region deal with these problems separately, maybe to give them time to find a solution for fixes in the field. Certainly this puts a lot of pressure "where the rubber meets the road" at the repair centers, It is no fun to be put in a no win situation by the mfg.

After a lot of thought I have cancelled my order at the local dealer for a D800, hopefully all these issues will be resolved in due time, and I wish everyone with them a good and timely resolution.

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tommiejeep
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Sorry, but you are asking...
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 5, 2012

us to take a lot on faith

As Luke pointed out earlier the data has been stripped. I have no idea how these were actually shot (not being there), your two sites do not really give me a great idea as to your skills, I do not actually know what shots you sent to Nikon and if those had the data included. No idea exactly where the focus was, did you focus and recompose, are they full frame.... ?

Without further info, the response you received seems quite sensible (not sure posting the reply on Dpr was as sensible) .

As far as not registering the camera for possible lowering the re-sale value .... I doubt you will ever get NPS status with no registered gear so no 'loaner' for an important job if something does fail.

I am not saying that a problem does not exist. I am still waiting for a D800 to become available and am quite happy about that This is a new AF system so, unfortunately, might need some tweeking. Is there a QC problem with the assembly...could be but that would be the easiest fix for Nikon.

"Nikon" did not deny the problem. One employee of Nikon asked you to send the camera in for testing.

You seem to ignore or disbelieve some of the posts in which other Nikon employees have said there is a problem and it is being worked on (at some levels/locations) .

This subject is not getting a similar amount of 'play' on other forums so it does not seem to be a high percentage of units affected.

I do hope you get the cameras to operate the way you expect.

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Arretose
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Re: Sorry, but you are asking...
In reply to tommiejeep, May 5, 2012

Thanks for the heads up. Whew that was a close call. I just canceled my D800 order. I feel like I just saved 15% or more on car insurance.

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alabaster
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Re: Nikon Denies All AutoFocus Problems
In reply to em_dee_aitch, May 5, 2012

em_dee_aitch wrote:

BTW - my statement about the 1.4G lenses is specific to the D3x, D3s and earlier camera bodies. It is entirely possible that the D800/D4 generation will do better with the 1.4G lenses. I am personally holding out on the D800 until the punishing "early production lines issues" are somewhat ironed out, so I have not even attempted to verify the issue. I expect at some point that Lloyd Chambers will do a credible re-investigation of this issue as he was pursuing it pretty aggressively back during that same two year ago timeframe.

Chambers has already done the tests, and the results are no better with the D800 and the f/1.4G lenses than with the D3/700 era.

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Derouyag
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The target is the problem!!!
In reply to Bruce Bracken, May 5, 2012

This picture here proves it... look close...

It says LensAlign MkII... obviously created for focus issues with the Canon 5D MkII

These two images prove the problem explicitly. Canon can shove it.

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