Windows 7 woes

Started May 3, 2012 | Discussions
Quoth
Regular MemberPosts: 446
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Windows 7 woes
May 3, 2012

Having built and maintained many pc's over the years, I have now encountered a couple of problems I just cannot overcome.

Just built a new system for my father and am installing everything as a dry run before installing to the SSD.

The following all occurs on a brand new HD and clean installation of Windows 7.

The first problem is that neither Macrium reflect 4.2, Paragon backup or Easus Todo can see any drives partitions or backup images when booting from a recovery disk.

Reflect 5 can see the drives and the backup images in the "from" windows, but the target window is just blank, which I have seen a couple of people mention before.

Could it be something to do with Sata, as I have only ever had this issue once before and only a full disk wipe and reinstall sorted it out.

Any clues what may be at play here?

The second problem is the wireless network.

Windows 7 will see it straight away, but just not connect to it, telling me the password is wrong when I insert it, or giving me the message:

" The settings saved on this computer for the network do not match the requirements of the network"

Or "Wireless security types do not match"

Security is set as WPA2 PSK in the router and both the security and password have been checked multiple times.

Using the same password and security, ALL of the other wireless devices in the house connect to the wireless router.
Windows XP connects to the router
Linux connects to the router, but WIndows 7 just stamps its feet and says no.

Has anyone experienced this before.

I find it remarkable that I can type in the settings and password to connect XP and Linux in about 30 seconds, but I have spent the last 8 hours unable to get Windows 7 to play.

Running Fedora from a live cd to type this message and connect to the interweb.

Quoth
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Sorted the wireless problem
In reply to Quoth, May 3, 2012

Windows would not allow any change from public to home, so it just blocked the entire connection, telling me the password was wrong or the network requirements didn't match.

When I removed the pci wireless card and refitted the old usb adapter, it allowed the change to home and unblocked the connection.

Typically, XP and Linux both connected instantly, but Win 7 has just been horrible to troubleshoot this last 24 hours.

Just the backup software issue to resolve now.

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Lyle Aldridge
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Re: Windows 7 woes
In reply to Quoth, May 3, 2012

Quoth wrote:

The second problem is the wireless network.

Windows 7 will see it straight away, but just not connect to it, telling me the password is wrong when I insert it, or giving me the message:

" The settings saved on this computer for the network do not match the requirements of the network"

Or "Wireless security types do not match"

Security is set as WPA2 PSK in the router and both the security and password have been checked multiple times.

Using the same password and security, ALL of the other wireless devices in the house connect to the wireless router.
Windows XP connects to the router
Linux connects to the router, but WIndows 7 just stamps its feet and says no.

Has anyone experienced this before.

Yes, in my case it was a problem with the driver for a laptop wireless card, for which no proper Windows 7 driver was available. The Windows 7 installation evidently loaded a next-best generic driver that was able to detect "available" connections, and connect manually using WEP, but could not store a proper profile to connect automatically, and was completely unable to connect with WPA. Ultimately, I ended up using one of those nano USB adapters that was Windows 7 compliant.

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malch
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Re: Windows 7 woes
In reply to Quoth, May 3, 2012

Quoth wrote:

The first problem is that neither Macrium reflect 4.2, Paragon backup or Easus Todo can see any drives partitions or backup images when booting from a recovery disk.

Some fairly obvious things:

1. Check for any BIOS updates.
2. Check the BIOS settings for the SATA drives. Anything look odd?
3. Check the MBR and partitions with a tool like GParted/Partition Magic.

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Jim Cockfield
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drivers...
In reply to Quoth, May 3, 2012

Quoth wrote:

The first problem is that neither Macrium reflect 4.2, Paragon backup or Easus Todo can see any drives partitions or backup images when booting from a recovery disk.

Reflect 5 can see the drives and the backup images in the "from" windows, but the target window is just blank, which I have seen a couple of people mention before.

Well... you're not being very specific. Do you mean that they can't see the SATA attached drives in the system? As for the backup images, are they not located somewhere else like an external drive (maybe that's why some software can see them but can't see the internal drives and partitions because the correct SATA drivers are not being used).

How were these recovery disks created?

You may not have the correct drivers installed on them for that system (and sometimes BIOS Settings for SATA (ATA versus ACHI) will impact the drivers needed too. . With a Windows based recovery disk created using something like Windows PE or Bart PE based tools, you may need to have the correct device drivers installed for the chipsets in it (SATA Drivers, USB Drivers, etc.) before it works properly. IOW, a recovery disk created for one system may not work for another.

With LInux based recovery disks, you may need a newer kernel version and driver modules for newer systems.

So, using an old linux based recovery disk version for a product (or a Windows based recovery disk created for a different machine with different hardware drivers) can cause problems if the correct drivers are not installed that support the hardware you're using.

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JimC

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Richard
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Re: Windows 7 woes
In reply to Quoth, May 3, 2012

Sounds like driver issue. Look at motherboard drivers from the motherboard manufacturer.

Quoth wrote:

Having built and maintained many pc's over the years, I have now encountered a couple of problems I just cannot overcome.

Just built a new system for my father and am installing everything as a dry run before installing to the SSD.

The following all occurs on a brand new HD and clean installation of Windows 7.

The first problem is that neither Macrium reflect 4.2, Paragon backup or Easus Todo can see any drives partitions or backup images when booting from a recovery disk.

Reflect 5 can see the drives and the backup images in the "from" windows, but the target window is just blank, which I have seen a couple of people mention before.

Could it be something to do with Sata, as I have only ever had this issue once before and only a full disk wipe and reinstall sorted it out.

Any clues what may be at play here?

The second problem is the wireless network.

Windows 7 will see it straight away, but just not connect to it, telling me the password is wrong when I insert it, or giving me the message:

" The settings saved on this computer for the network do not match the requirements of the network"

Or "Wireless security types do not match"

Security is set as WPA2 PSK in the router and both the security and password have been checked multiple times.

Using the same password and security, ALL of the other wireless devices in the house connect to the wireless router.
Windows XP connects to the router
Linux connects to the router, but WIndows 7 just stamps its feet and says no.

Has anyone experienced this before.

I find it remarkable that I can type in the settings and password to connect XP and Linux in about 30 seconds, but I have spent the last 8 hours unable to get Windows 7 to play.

Running Fedora from a live cd to type this message and connect to the interweb.

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Quoth
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Thanks for the replies
In reply to Richard, May 4, 2012

Bios up to date, drivers up to date and recovery discs created on the new system itself.

Got around it by just using the built in Win 7 backup and system protection options.

Had a look online and there are a few people who have the issue with all of the recovery software manufacturers, but no clear cause or solution.

Unfortunately the problem is a different one for each program.

Todo would see drives, but not see any backups.
Paragon would only see My computer and no drives.
Macrium 4.2 would not see the backups

Macrium 5 would see the backups just fine, but the target window was just a blank.

Like others here, I suspect it is a driver issue for Sata, so when I find the cause and solution I will be sure to post it.

Thanks Lyle. It was an unsigned driver for me as well, but at least the usb adapter saved the day.

Hopefully the backup issue will resolve itself with a lucky guess or flash of inspiration.

Another solution I had considered was that as Fedora could see everything properly, would it be possible, when booted into a live Linux distro to copy the Windows partition, compress it and save it elsewhere, then expand it back over the windows partition as needed?

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Jim Cockfield
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Clonezilla Live
In reply to Quoth, May 5, 2012

Quoth wrote:

Another solution I had considered was that as Fedora could see everything properly, would it be possible, when booted into a live Linux distro to copy the Windows partition, compress it and save it elsewhere, then expand it back over the windows partition as needed?

Yea.. there are lots of ways to backup windows from linux. I'll sometimes just use ddrescue or dd for that purpose, or for data only backup, I keep LuckyBackup installed in Linux (basically., it's just a front end for rsync).

But, a dedicated disk image backup program with a Linux Live CD is Clonezilla Live. The author releases new versions on a regular basis with newer Linux kernels, drivers, etc., and it's default compression algorithms work fine (saviing space on the device you're backing up to), and it gives you the option to verify the backup to make sure it doesn't have any errors. You can use it to backup specific partitions, full disk images, etc. It's also very fast.

Here's a post I made a while back about using it with links to download it and links to tutorials on using it:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1004&message=39974007

I keep it on a USB Flash Drive setup in a multi-boot config with some of the Linux based AV products on it (i use YUMI to create multiboot USB Flash Drive setups with more than one Linux distro on them) and just boot into Clonezilla Live from the USB Flash Drive to make or restore backup images as needed.

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JimC

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malch
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Re: Thanks for the replies
In reply to Quoth, May 5, 2012

Quoth wrote:

Got around it by just using the built in Win 7 backup and system protection options.

I think maybe Jim was right.

If you get a chance, change the AHCI/PCI setting in the BIOS and then boot up one of the recovery disks.

You probably have the BIOS in AHCI mode currently. That's recommended for SSD's.

I'm guessing the recovery disks have PCI drivers installed. So if you flip the BIOS into PCI mode, the recovery system may well be able to see the drives and files.

I use Paragon myself and I think I had to set the BIOS to PCI (but it's been a while since I booted up the recovery disk).

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Quoth
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Thanks again Jim and Malch
In reply to malch, May 5, 2012

I will try the Clonezilla setup from Disk and flash drive next time I go up (after first confirming it on mine.

When I hit the errors, the Z77 BIOS (which is far more comprehensive than ever before) was not set to AHCI, because I was doing a dry run and installing everything to the HDD, to confirm compatibility on the new system before installing to the SSD.

Because the backup images of the HDD wouldn't run, (though I didn't try USB) I didn't then creating try them from the SSD, but just used the windows backup.

Reading online, I see some people have solved their issue by using usb drives for their boot disks/recovery images as long as the BIOS is set to legacy for usb, so I will also try that.

Highly recommend the Crucial M4 7mm SSD though as the boot speed is impressive and in the UK, the prices for the 128Gb have just dropped substantially.

Thanks you both again for the help.

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Brad99
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Re: Thanks again Jim and Malch
In reply to Quoth, May 5, 2012

Is it possible for you to repartition your boot HD as a single partition and just use that one drive in the 1st SATA port during Win7 install? Also strip out any other hardware not essential at installation time. I believe in simplifying problems as much as possible - sometimes the problem just goes away if you're lucky

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malch
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Re: Thanks again Jim and Malch
In reply to Quoth, May 5, 2012

Quoth wrote:

Reading online, I see some people have solved their issue by using usb drives for their boot disks/recovery images as long as the BIOS is set to legacy for usb, so I will also try that.

Hmmm, that's interesting. I will certainly try to keep this in mind if I should ever encounter problems booting a recovery disk.

Please do let us know if you gain any more insights into this issue.

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Quoth
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Solution to the backup image problem
In reply to Quoth, Jun 11, 2012

Using Macrium reflect 5 free and the Windows Automated Installation Kit

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=5753

Create the Win PE boot disk which will boot into the Windows / Macrium reflect recovery environment and correctly see all of the drives and folders.

The problem seemed to have been that the existing linux based recovery disks could not load the correct drivers to identify the drives/partitions on the newest Sata connections.

Hopefully that will help anyone else who hits the same problem.

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