Intersring Finding, must READ (5DM3 DR!!!)

Started May 2, 2012 | Discussions
ArabiaSandStorm
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You are missing the point....
In reply to joger, May 2, 2012

the point of the thread is the speculation is that LR is not reading 5DM3 raw files as they are supposed to, therefore shadow removal is limited. Comparing 5D2 & 5D3 in LR is useless in this case!

joger wrote:

I've tested the 5D III vs the 5D II in LightRoom (both should see the same ability or the lack of it) for dynamic range.

I see no point in praising the 5D III over the 5D II - the following image was taken at ISO 200 in a high dynamic scenario in a church. I've lifted the exposure by some 1.5 stops and dropped it also by 1.5 stops to see if there is more detail in the 5D III compare to the 5D II (which is not regarded as a high DR camera)

just have a look yourself - at least it shows that LightRoom does not show more DR for the 5D III at Canon gear - which is telling me a lot - in fact the 5D II looks quite well (no banding at all)

B E wrote:

Dynamic range calculations, like those done by DXOMark and others, are done on the RAW data. And the RAW data shows that (at ISO 100) the D800 sensor has more than two stops more DR than the 5DIII sensor.

No amount of tweaking or switching RAW converters will ever make up for such a huge difference in performance.

Sorry.

ArabiaSandStorm wrote:

Sorry if it has been posted before, but a gentleman @ canonrumors may have stumbled on the reason why shadow recovery is limited with the 5DM3. If this is confirmed, we will definitely see less D800 threads around here...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6235.0

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isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

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SubPrime
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Re: You are missing the point....
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

ArabiaSandStorm wrote:

the point of the thread is the speculation is that LR is not reading 5DM3 raw files as they are supposed to, therefore shadow removal is limited. Comparing 5D2 & 5D3 in LR is useless in this case!

On the contrary. It seems rather odd that this issue has been around since the 5D2 were released and no one picked it until now.

Are we to assume 5D2 shooters have been putting up with this for 5 years?

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mgrum
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Re: Very nice
In reply to SHillphoto, May 2, 2012

SHillphoto wrote:

Thanks for posting,

I will stand by my statement that the 5D3 has much better over all IQ than the D800 the software just needs to catch up.

I feel Nikon does more NR and is more missleading on the true ISO.

It doesn't matter what you "feel", the actual evidence (based on RAW analysis, taking the converter out of the equation) is clear and to the contrary.

Some people feel that 51 is a prime number. It isn't.

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joger
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Re: You are missing the point....
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

ArabiaSandStorm wrote:

the point of the thread is the speculation is that LR is not reading 5DM3 raw files as they are supposed to, therefore shadow removal is limited. Comparing 5D2 & 5D3 in LR is useless in this case!

so LightRoom does a "reasonable" job with 5D II files but a comparable "horrible" job with 5D III files - very interesting

Good to know that !!

I've read some tests about LightRoom RAW converter throughout the years and none indicated that Adobe's recent incarnation of the RAW conversion is that bad with the 5D II - in fact I would assume both cameras are quite similar in their behavior - as confirmed by many sources with DPP too

For me the 5D III is the disappointment of the year (being a Canon equipped amateur with some expensive lenses)
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isn’t it funny, a ship that leaks from the top

ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'

“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein

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ArabiaSandStorm
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Re: Very nice
In reply to mgrum, May 2, 2012

mgrum wrote:

SHillphoto wrote:

Thanks for posting,

I will stand by my statement that the 5D3 has much better over all IQ than the D800 the software just needs to catch up.

I feel Nikon does more NR and is more missleading on the true ISO.

It doesn't matter what you "feel", the actual evidence (based on RAW analysis, taking the converter out of the equation) is clear and to the contrary.

Some people feel that 51 is a prime number. It isn't.

DXO analysis to me are just numbers not reality. the poster from canonrumers and this thread is not trying to disproof DXO numbers (something I don't know how it is done, and I am not interested to know!) this discussion revolves around SAMPLES pushed in lightroom showing unsatisfactory results which might be due to LR fault than the 5DM3. RAW's DR numbers may still be as reported by DXO, but what is important to us is the results we see on the monitor/print.

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chironNYC
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looks out of focus. or camera shake?
In reply to SubPrime, May 2, 2012

Looks out of focus all over. Camera or subject movement or focus problem?

SubPrime wrote:

SHillphoto wrote:

I will stand by my statement that the 5D3 has much better over all IQ than the D800 the software just needs to catch up.

You could do, but without a side by side comparison, you'd be wasting your time.

What is it about the 5D3 files that remains untapped by spftware - including Canon's?

I feel Nikon does more NR and is more missleading on the true ISO.

How so? Did you measure it, or just feel it?

There is a trade off for 36MP and in a year the 5D3 will be the camera to have.

Why that long?

canon and nikon are trading places now canon has the lower MP but better images...

Really? Any examples?

Anything you have handy better than say this?

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chironNYC
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Re: Lame argument
In reply to SubPrime, May 2, 2012

Stop with the nonsense of owning both systems. You only post one way, in one direction, ever. But you keep doing it in the wrong forum, which is why everyone is so tired of your BS.

SubPrime wrote:
ArabiaSandStorm:

Ok SubPrime, D800 is the best camera ever! We are just trying to push 5DM3 to the second place! Satisfied? just calm down

You're telling me to calm down? Please, I'm not the one running around trying to put out the fires on the Canon forum. . I own both systems so there's no point trying to accuse me of bias.

The Canonforum post made the baseless claim that LR was favoring the D800 without even trying to investigate if this was true or not. Ask any Nikon user and they will all tell you that CaptureNX and Capture One do a much better job of raw conversion than LR. It should come as no surprise that DPP does a better job than LR with the 5D3.

This example proves that DPP does a better job of raw conversion on files from the 5D3. That doesn't prove the 5D3 has more DR than all the measurements have indicated. As far as the relative DR of the 5D3, this example tells us nothing.

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Peter

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chironNYC
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Re: More grasping at straws
In reply to joger, May 2, 2012

The whole point of this thread is whether you should use LR or DPP. Didn't you read?
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Mikael Risedal
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Re: Intersring Finding, must READ (5DM3 DR!!!) High read noise
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

The shadows are limited because of a high read noise level, and higher level of banding and pattern noise than others.

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SubPrime
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Re: looks out of focus. or camera shake?
In reply to chironNYC, May 2, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

Looks out of focus all over. Camera or subject movement or focus problem?

Very funny Chiron.

You obvously don't knwo the difference between motion blur and bokeh.

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SubPrime
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Re: Very nice
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

ArabiaSandStorm wrote:

DXO analysis to me are just numbers not reality.

Numbers are reality. They don't lie, but delusion and feelings do.

this discussion revolves around SAMPLES pushed in lightroom showing unsatisfactory results which might be due to LR fault than the 5DM3.

The discussion also makes ubsubstantiated claims that LR handles the D800 better than 5D3 filles, which is odd, seeing as LR handles 5D3 files the same way it handles 5D2 files (both have the same DR) and yet it's apparently only become an issue now.

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j900
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misleading
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

The D800 huge DR advantage has been demonstrated based on RAW data, before processing by any raw converter.

It's good to know that converter A does a better job than converter B, but neither A nor B will help the 5D3 overcome its significant DR weakness.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: Very nice False and ignorant and physically impossible
In reply to SHillphoto, May 2, 2012

read this, 5dmk3 has more then 10 times the read noise compared to d800 at base iso
YOU CAN NEVER GET CLEAN LOW LEVELS FROM 5DMK3 AND HIGH DR
it is physically impossible

SHillphoto wrote:

Thanks for posting,

I will stand by my statement that the 5D3 has much better over all IQ than the D800 the software just needs to catch up.

I feel Nikon does more NR and is more missleading on the true ISO.

There is a trade off for 36MP and in a year the 5D3 will be the camera to have.

canon and nikon are trading places now canon has the lower MP but better images...

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BigG30
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I've said it for several months, DPP has less banding
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

If I process my 7D files in DPP, then the shadow banding is much MUCH better than using ACR.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: More grasping at straws
In reply to B E, May 2, 2012

yes because of the read out circuitry with raw wise AD on board the sensor edge

B E wrote:

Dynamic range calculations, like those done by DXOMark and others, are done on the RAW data. And the RAW data shows that (at ISO 100) the D800 sensor has more than two stops more DR than the 5DIII sensor.

No amount of tweaking or switching RAW converters will ever make up for such a huge difference in performance.

Sorry.

ArabiaSandStorm wrote:

Sorry if it has been posted before, but a gentleman @ canonrumors may have stumbled on the reason why shadow recovery is limited with the 5DM3. If this is confirmed, we will definitely see less D800 threads around here...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6235.0

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SubPrime
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Re: Lame argument
In reply to chironNYC, May 2, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

Stop with the nonsense of owning both systems. You only post one way, in one direction, ever.

If by that you mean I correct your BS, yes you are right.

But you keep doing it in the wrong forum, which is why everyone is so tired of your BS.

That's funny seeing as you're the one held up as a fantic fanboy, even among Canon enthusiasts.

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SubPrime
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Re: More grasping at straws
In reply to chironNYC, May 2, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

The whole point of this thread is whether you should use LR or DPP. Didn't you read?

The thread is about a whole lot more than that. Canonforum claims that LR treats the D800 raw files better than 5D3 raw files, without providing any evidence.

It's also interesting that LR treats 5D3 files the same way it treats 5D2 filles, yet it hasn't been an issue until now.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: I've said it for several months, DPP has less banding
In reply to BigG30, May 2, 2012

yes because the equalizes and smooths errors in the readout points from 7d

BigG30 wrote:

If I process my 7D files in DPP, then the shadow banding is much MUCH better than using ACR.

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Mikael Risedal
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Re: misleading
In reply to j900, May 2, 2012

yes but then you also must look at what is better and what is worse, hidden noise etc and resolution. How authentic surfaces looking etc.

j900 wrote:

The D800 huge DR advantage has been demonstrated based on RAW data, before processing by any raw converter.

It's good to know that converter A does a better job than converter B, but neither A nor B will help the 5D3 overcome its significant DR weakness.

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ArabiaSandStorm
Regular MemberPosts: 128
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Please lets stop interacting with those ***** "OUTSIDERS" and ..
In reply to ArabiaSandStorm, May 2, 2012

concentrate on the subject..

ArabiaSandStorm wrote:

Sorry if it has been posted before, but a gentleman @ canonrumors may have stumbled on the reason why shadow recovery is limited with the 5DM3. If this is confirmed, we will definitely see less D800 threads around here...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6235.0

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