What you need versus what you want, and what you have.

Started May 2, 2012 | Discussions
Liberty555
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What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
May 2, 2012

With so much strong resentment in the forum of late, I thought I'd break it down really simply and get back to basics...

Please refraim from flaming, trolling or cross posting. Lets just remain civil for a bit. Also please refrain from trying to impose your financial limitations on this purely technical post. There is no such thing a the perfect camera, so lets put childish taunts aside.

I'll start it off... I've had a 7D since it was first released.

What I need(ed) was a Canon 7D. Great AF, great frame rate, great IQ, great handling, ergonomics, weathersealing, viewfinder, capability and build. I've used it non stop in literally rain, hail and shine. Is been great, has never let me down. It can do more than I'd ever ask of it.

What I want(ed) was a Canon 7D with a full frame sensor.

What I have is a Canon 5D Mark 3.

I'm very very happy and honestly think it is encouraging me to further explore photography. Its been a personnal renaissance and I'm enjoying it.

Now I can confidently put my hand on my heart and say there is nothing in this email to invite ridicule, hurt or attack - please do me and others here the courtesy of maintaining the tone for this post. I genuinely want to know what you use, have used and want to use - regardless of Brand/Model.

Canon EOS 5D Mark III Canon EOS 7D
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Don Daugherty
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

My first Canon was a 1D, then 1D MkII and now currently 7D. I just ordered a 5D MKIII. I'm so stoked! I'm looking at it front the standpoint of what it will do for me and mean to me. Like yourself, it's rekindled some passion.

Nice to see more positive posts.

D

Liberty555 wrote:

With so much strong resentment in the forum of late, I thought I'd break it down really simply and get back to basics...

Please refraim from flaming, trolling or cross posting. Lets just remain civil for a bit. Also please refrain from trying to impose your financial limitations on this purely technical post. There is no such thing a the perfect camera, so lets put childish taunts aside.

I'll start it off... I've had a 7D since it was first released.

What I need(ed) was a Canon 7D. Great AF, great frame rate, great IQ, great handling, ergonomics, weathersealing, viewfinder, capability and build. I've used it non stop in literally rain, hail and shine. Is been great, has never let me down. It can do more than I'd ever ask of it.

What I want(ed) was a Canon 7D with a full frame sensor.

What I have is a Canon 5D Mark 3.

I'm very very happy and honestly think it is encouraging me to further explore photography. Its been a personnal renaissance and I'm enjoying it.

Now I can confidently put my hand on my heart and say there is nothing in this email to invite ridicule, hurt or attack - please do me and others here the courtesy of maintaining the tone for this post. I genuinely want to know what you use, have used and want to use - regardless of Brand/Model.

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epsilon sigma taph
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Don Daugherty, May 2, 2012

I will now only use cameras with an EVF. Can't stand using OVFs anymore. My current favourite is the Sony A55. I'm going to buy the Sony A57 soon as it becomes available here. I wish we could have a digital full frame version of the classic Olympus OM-1. Same size body at a $1k price. Pro Canons and Nikons never appealed to me because they're too big, heavy and complicated. Most 35mm film cameras never were.

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ultimitsu
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

Liberty555 wrote:

I genuinely want to know what you use, have used and want to use - regardless of Brand/Model.

Other than the 1% posters who making living off photography 100%, no one "needs" a camera. photography is just a hobby that we enjoy and every now and then make a bit on the side.

What people "want" is an ever changing standard, it changes every time a new technology is available or an existing technology is made affordable. 20 years ago no one would tell you they realistically wanted a 55in TV - it was just unthinkable. nowadays if you buy a TV, 55in is pretty standard.

5D3 would have been a very desirable camera if it was released merely 12 month ago. people would have been OK with its DR and price, people would have compared it to D3X and called it a bargain.

What changed is the emergence of D800, it raised the bar very high - for all cameras but especially for $3,000 dollar category. It made people want a camera with 14 stops of DR, especially after seeing what it can do. When 5D3 failed to deliver that - by a long shot - and with a higher price tag, it became a lot less desirable.

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Shaun Bell
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

I used to shoot with a D1x, D70 and D2h all while wondering if I should go back to film. Then I started shooting a D2x and wondering if Nikon even knows how amazing the Canon bodies were lol! Now I shoot with a D700, D3 and D3x and I'm pretty happy with the results. When I got the D3x I thought the 5DMII was an amazing value. Now with the D800 I'm a little on the fence. For my really high res work I'm thinking I may be better off with a large format and a Better light back. But other than that I think the DSLR's have evolved to a point where I have pretty much everything I need. Not something the camera companies want to hear : )
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Jasper in SF
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

I went from film to a 20D, and the a 7D. I opted for it as opposed to ff largely because I couldn't justify the added cost at the time. I now have a project to work on that I am using to justify buying a 5D III :). I have thought about making the switch to Nikon, and I even recently borrowed a friend's D700 - man, with a 24-70 that thing is like a tank. I liked certain things about it, and the more I used it the more I liked it. Eg, changing metering mode with a little switch is great. I haven't had time yet to examine the raw files properly and am sure I will be impressed.

But really, I have a hard time breaking out of 20+ years of habit - my fingers just want to go certain places on the camera. I'm used to Canon's somewhat goofy menus etc., and I love the colors from my 70-200 F4. That lens is like an old friend. So what do I really want? That my camera becomes the real limit to my photography as a body of work. Not having access to the best possible DR, for instance, may be disappointing once in a while. But I have the luxury of being able to decide not to take a picture if the only thing that will make it work is pulling several stops worth of details out of shadows. There are, for practical purposes of a lifetime, infinite numbers of subjects in infinite contexts for me to work with/in. If I miss something because of gear and nothing else, in a way that would be great, and I could turn to the next subject/moment without being overly frustrated.
In the meantime, I can't wait to get the MKIII and I covet the TS-E 24.

Cheers,

-- hide signature --

'There is no un-suck filter.'

  • David duChemin

Which is too bad, because I could sure use one.
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David Hull
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to ultimitsu, May 2, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

Liberty555 wrote:

I genuinely want to know what you use, have used and want to use - regardless of Brand/Model.

Other than the 1% posters who making living off photography 100%, no one "needs" a camera. photography is just a hobby that we enjoy and every now and then make a bit on the side.

What people "want" is an ever changing standard, it changes every time a new technology is available or an existing technology is made affordable. 20 years ago no one would tell you they realistically wanted a 55in TV - it was just unthinkable. nowadays if you buy a TV, 55in is pretty standard.

5D3 would have been a very desirable camera if it was released merely 12 month ago. people would have been OK with its DR and price, people would have compared it to D3X and called it a bargain.

What changed is the emergence of D800, it raised the bar very high - for all cameras but especially for $3,000 dollar category. It made people want a camera with 14 stops of DR, especially after seeing what it can do. When 5D3 failed to deliver that - by a long shot - and with a higher price tag, it became a lot less desirable.

What a crock of crap. What either of these cameras can do is take magnificent photographs when in the hands of a competent photographer – the rest is nothing but mindless drivel.

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Liberty555
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Shaun Bell, May 2, 2012

It is so refreshing to read well thought out and considered responses - thank you. You are going a long way to restoring my opinion of photo forums.

In the last few months I've concluded a photo project I've been working on since just before my first child was born. Just 2 months back we had number two.

I recently produced my first photo book - a compilation of about 80 family shots marking the last 2.5 years. I cannot tell you how much joy it has brought to me, my family and anyone else who looks at it. Not for the quality of the work (which I would like to think is pretty good!) but because of what they show and the fact the photos are not on a hard drive somewhere, but printed to actually hold and touch. When you are prnting to essentially 8x10 - there is no need to pixel peep either! Composition and exposure are what count.

Yes, to me photography is a hobby and I do love it. Its taken it to another level though to actually do something with the images.

I'm already part way into the next two books as well.

I hope everyone else here gets to experience this joy at some stage.

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ultimitsu
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to David Hull, May 2, 2012

David Hull wrote:

What a crock of crap.

what part of OP's plead for a civilised discussion did you not get?

What either of these cameras can do is take magnificent photographs when in the hands of a competent photographer – the rest is nothing but mindless drivel.

so can a 20D, would you buy one at 1200 USD today?

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carlk
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

Why are you doing this then? Why don't you just go do what you say you want to do instead of trying to get people's blessing of what you have?

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tony field
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

What I need is a camera that shoots about 30 mpix, high DR, noise free at ISO 6400, with high colour fidelity in lighting from 2200K to 7000K

What I want something like the 1DX or 5D-III.
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SHillphoto
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That' what I wanted too
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

Most of us wanted a FF 7D and that's what we got...

The problem is IQ like better color, DR, High ISO are not as sexy as High MP

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Rick Knepper
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What I need & want is the best IQ available.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

I need and want a camera that produces the best IQ available because I am personally going to be viewing these images daily for the next 20-25 years or until I drop dead. Like HDTV, I can't watch a regular cable channel any longer, I can't step backwards in my DSLRs.

After researching DSLRs before moving from a compact, I knew I needed and wanted a FF camera. Being interested mostly in landscape photography before the days of the 10-22, I didn't want the expensive wide angle lenses I intended to buy cropped by the camera. My research also revealed many rumors concerning an affordable FF on the horizon (at the time, I didn't realize how unreliable rumors in the camera world were), so, I bought a DigiRec for an interim camera.

Luckily within two years, the 5D was introduced and I felt like I had come home (although i had never been home before).

I also developed a taste for Zeiss manual focus lenses. I can't see to focus with the tiny VF in DSLRs and relied on AF confirm which is really tantamount to shooting AF. I would have given anything for an LCD on the back of my 5D to blow up the image I was trying to focus on like the one on the back of my last compact, and lo and behold, the 5D2 to the rescue. I would have bought that camera even if it had been 12 MPs.

I then developed a distaste for changing lenses in the field so often because of the dust issues that plague all DSLRs, convenience factor and trying to avoid losing some shots so I started carrying 2 cameras, at first, 2 5D2s but my ultimate goal was a dual platform approach to access the best lenses of each brand. I waited 2 1/2 years for Nikon to release the D700x/D800 but I finally bought a D3x last year before my 2011 photo season began. The D3x upped my game in the resolution and DR areas and it has a very nice AF system. I sold one of my 5D2s.

I view my rig(s) as having a Canon side and a Nikon side. My 5D2 is up for replacement next. Having two Nikons is not an option. Although the operational improvements in the 5D3 are impressive and tempting, I must also realize a significant increase in IQ in this next upgrade so I am waiting on the Canon response to the D800. If I lose, damage beyond repair, or my 5D2 gets stolen without a D800 competitor in sight from Canon, I would buy a 5D3. Or if I come into some found money...

Liberty555 wrote:

With so much strong resentment in the forum of late, I thought I'd break it down really simply and get back to basics...

Please refraim from flaming, trolling or cross posting. Lets just remain civil for a bit. Also please refrain from trying to impose your financial limitations on this purely technical post. There is no such thing a the perfect camera, so lets put childish taunts aside.

I'll start it off... I've had a 7D since it was first released.

What I need(ed) was a Canon 7D. Great AF, great frame rate, great IQ, great handling, ergonomics, weathersealing, viewfinder, capability and build. I've used it non stop in literally rain, hail and shine. Is been great, has never let me down. It can do more than I'd ever ask of it.

What I want(ed) was a Canon 7D with a full frame sensor.

What I have is a Canon 5D Mark 3.

I'm very very happy and honestly think it is encouraging me to further explore photography. Its been a personnal renaissance and I'm enjoying it.

Now I can confidently put my hand on my heart and say there is nothing in this email to invite ridicule, hurt or attack - please do me and others here the courtesy of maintaining the tone for this post. I genuinely want to know what you use, have used and want to use - regardless of Brand/Model.

-- hide signature --

Rick Knepper, photographer, photography never for sale, check my profile for gear list and philosophy.

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GaryJP
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to ultimitsu, May 2, 2012

ultimitsu wrote:

David Hull wrote:

What a crock of crap.

what part of OP's plead for a civilised discussion did you not get?

What part of: "Please refraim from flaming, trolling or cross posting" did you miss?

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ultimitsu
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to GaryJP, May 2, 2012

GaryJP wrote:

ultimitsu wrote:

David Hull wrote:

What a crock of crap.

what part of OP's plead for a civilised discussion did you not get?

What part of: "Please refraim from flaming, trolling or cross posting" did you miss?

none, and apparently you can david enjoying both flaming and trolling

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meland
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to epsilon sigma taph, May 2, 2012

epsilon sigma taph wrote:

I will now only use cameras with an EVF. Can't stand using OVFs anymore. My current favourite is the Sony A55. I'm going to buy the Sony A57 soon as it becomes available here. I wish we could have a digital full frame version of the classic Olympus OM-1. Same size body at a $1k price. Pro Canons and Nikons never appealed to me because they're too big, heavy and complicated. Most 35mm film cameras never were.

I too would love a digital full frame version of a camera the size of an OM-1. Let's hope that the rumours of Canon producing a smaller DSLR come to fruition - but perhaps these rumours are not actually of a forthcoming DSLR at all but instead hint of a mirrorless entry?

Out of interest what is it you like about EVFs and don't like about OVFs? I'm exactly the opposite and the lack of an OVF is what stops me being interested in something like the Olympus OM-D E-M5 or Nex 5/7, although the size reduction of their bodies is appealing.

But even the latest high quality EVFs I find are far less satisfying to use than a good OVF so I'd be interested to know your thoughts.

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carlk
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Re: What I need & want is the best IQ available.
In reply to Rick Knepper, May 2, 2012

Rick Knepper wrote:

I need and want a camera that produces the best IQ available because I am personally going to be viewing these images daily for the next 20-25 years or until I drop dead.

That's the best reason and how I felt too. Many times I wish they were taken by the best cameras today when looking at some of the best pictures I took in the past. That was not possible of course but I don't need to let it slip when I can do it now. Always do the best you can becauase you will not get a second chance.

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Jasper in SF
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Re: What I need & want is the best IQ available.
In reply to Rick Knepper, May 2, 2012

Just curious - if best IQ is the thing for you is there a reason you didn't go with a larger format, other than cost?

Cheers,

-- hide signature --

'There is no un-suck filter.'

  • David duChemin

Which is too bad, because I could sure use one.
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Robert98
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Re: What you need versus what you want, and what you have.
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

I started down the DSLR road with a D30 with a 50/1.4 and 28-135. What I needed then was something quicker (handling and shutter lag), so next was a 1D. What I then needed was more megapixel, so I got a 1DMarkII.

What I then needed was a rest for my wallet, so I stuck with the II.

I wanted a better main lens, so I dropped the 28-135 and got a 70-200 2.8LIS and 16-35 Mark I, along with a 100 2.8 macro and a flash.

I wanted a smaller camera for day-to-day, so I added a G9

I noticed that I barely used the 16-35, so I sold it and got a 24-70 2.8. Which I then sold and got a 24-105IS.

I then got a better job, so, coupled with a desire for more megapixels, I added a 1DMark IV to the stable.

I wanted a carry-around with HD and quicker handling, so I gave the G9 to my wife and got an S100.

What I wanted then was full-frame, less weight, fast handling, so I added a 5DMarkIII and dropped the 1D Mark II.

I then wanted a good wide-angle to go with the 5DIII so I got a 24TS-E II. Wow, just wow.

I wanted a water-proof HD camera for skiing, driving, biking, so picked up a GoPro Hero 2 last month in Whistler.

And now I'm a happy camper. In photographic terms I want for nothing.

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DFPanno
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What I have; what I'd like......
In reply to Liberty555, May 2, 2012

I have a 5D3.

What I would like is a CANON DSLR with a sensor that is capable of the DR inherent in the D800 sensor.

A increase in MP would be nice but I am not as concerned about that.

Hopefully that Canon sensor is just over the horizon.

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