Nikon needs to FIRE employees related to D4/D800/E Release

Started May 1, 2012 | Discussions
stevedigiphoto
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Re: Nikon needs to FIRE employees related to D4/D800/E Release
In reply to ScottRH, May 1, 2012

Clear issue? Don't think so. Vast majority of D800 users are very happy with the camera and all reviews so far have been excellent. Those issues reported have been solved by Nikon service or proven to be user error.
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Ilkka Nissilä
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Re: Nikon needs to FIRE employees related to D4/D800/E Release
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

What a witless commentary.

Of course, you know that Sendai where the Nikon factory that manufactures their FX cameras was basically flooded into the Pacific Ocean. So one year after the event, you start firing execs when they can't meet the initial supply on an extremely competitive camera (the D800) that has no even approximate rivals? Yeah, that's just brilliant.

The D800 created much of the fundamental demand that you speak of, and since no comparable products exist by any manufacturer, it doesn't matter if it takes Nikon for another year to meet demand simply because these buyers have no alternatives to go to. Take your time, pick your number, and wait it out. I recommend practicing photography in the meanwhile.

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northernpenguin
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Re: Nikon needs to FIRE employees related to D4/D800/E Release
In reply to The Andy G, May 1, 2012

The Andy G wrote:

Yes, because the people who buy the D4 and D800, who have thousands invested in lenses and flashes have to suddenly stop working because their D3s and D700s no longer function.

I think the people who howl about changing professional grade camera systems exist a plenty on the internet but are comparatively rare in real life.

Nikon, like all manufacturers, doesn't have an infinitely large pipeline. If some genius on the board suggested building factories to satisfy peak demand rather than demand averaged over the product lifecycle, well, he'd not be on the board for long.
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I like the colours. Your camera takes good pictures.

^ I love people with this attitude.

Some of us are actually making more than an incremental upgrade, and don't have piles of D700s and D3x's kicking around on the scrap heap. My D200 works just fine, and I'm shooting the hell out of it but it has some limitations (low light) that I was hoping to address for my summer backcountry trips. My first trip is in 3 weeks and will be shot with a D200 that will be put away at night, instead of shooting stars reflected off a lake 6 days from any roads. Should I have upgraded to a D700 earlier? Perhaps. I made the decision to upgrade to THIS camera, and I'll likely skip the D900, and a couple bodies after that one too!

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Sylvain Larive
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Re: This is a joke
In reply to kenwj, May 1, 2012

kenwj wrote:

Shareholders are not complaining. The factory could not get more efficient if it wanted to. They are running flat out, they are selling all their inventory and they have something that people want and have no alternatives for.

They are happy. If they say they are not, they are only giving lip service.

You've got a weird definition of either shareholder or happy. They're not unhappy I'm certain, but they certainly can't like the fact that they are unable to meet demand. This is a well known manufacturing problem and if you think business owners and shareholders are whistling along a happy tune KNOWING they could have more money in their pockets now, you've got a funny way to do business.

These guys don't care about how good the D800 DR is, they don't care about high ISO noise or megapixels. They care about profits and bottom lines. What they see now is that Nikon is making lots of money selling its cameras and fo rthat they are glad. But they see that they could've made more if they had estimated demand better (you know, there are whole marketing fields just on that alone) and made the appropriate changes, they would be making MORE now. You think Apple's managers are sitting in their desks with arms crossed raving about their profits right now?! No, they are looking at ways to make MORE profits.

As an R&D manager involved deeply into manufacturing I understand all the technical difficulties behind the current Nikon production challenges. But I've also been confronted by managers and shareholders who simply... don't... care...

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steve ohlhaber
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Every company wishes they had this problem.
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

I knew this would be a hard camera to get hands on. Some people made the mistake of selling their primary gear on announcement, that was just a bad move.

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Sylvain Larive
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Re: This is a joke
In reply to danidentity, May 1, 2012

danidentity wrote:

Your rant just shows your ignorance.

Nikon's financial results this year will probably be the best they've ever had. Currently they are selling every single camera they can produce, and this will likely continue for most, if not all of the year. There will be no "demand shift" as your post alludes to. The people complaining on this forum are a tiny sliver of the entire population of consumers. Just because people haven't received pre-orders, doesn't mean their existing cameras don't work.

Sorry but without going into childish rants as to why I don't have a D800 yet, you can BET a lot of shareholders aren't happy about the shortages.

I almost choke when I hear people here talk about rarity and demand, thinking that Nikon is somehow happy it can't meet demand. Have you guys not even ever tried to sell something?!? The first rule of economy is to have something to sell. Your money in Nikon's pockets is what they want. To do that, they need cameras out there, not hype, not trickled distribution. It is a good problem when you can't keep up with demand, but it is, nonetheless, a major problem anyway.

You'd be surprised at how many people just walk into a store and buy something, even if they don't really need it. You think Nikon happy when a Soccer mom walks into a store and buys a Canon FF instead of the new D800?! In the same fashion the DP community is a small percentage, it also represents a tiny fraction of their sales. A lot of folks are compulsive and will buy whatever is available at a given time. Not saying its smart, but it is what it is.

I understand the D800 demand was above what they expected. Understand it is hard to scale production up rapidly... But everyone who has been involved in manufacturing would agree that not having your product out there for sales and meeting demand is a major problem. Shareholders WILL demand some answers... If I was a shareholder, I would...

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Biological_Viewfinder
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Not too bright
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

First mistake you made was going to B&H. Almost everyone here knows and loves B&H for thier quality customer service. So why is it so surprising to you that they would have a back-order list in the THOUSANDS...

The very 1st phone call I made was in mid-April to a small company. I was #9 in line at that time. But then I changed my mind after I got down to #4 on the list and jumped ship and decided to go for it and get the D800e instead. So I lost my place in line, and expect the line on the 800e side to move slower too; but I'm #11 right now.

So I've ordered the camera at the end of April and the email I just received states that I should have my D800e in a couple of weeks.

-

When I take this into account, I realize that you're just angry at everyone because you didn't get your new toy yet. You're mad at B&H for not telling you where you are at in line (not their fault, since if they tell you then you'd probably leave the line and go somewhere else where you aren't #4,958). You're mad at Nikon for making a camera that has more people drooling than ever before and they can't keep up with demand (not their fault that the photographic community would freak out that a dSLR could actually challenge a Medium Format camera in resolution and the internet viral buzz that followed). And you're mad at the world for not coming to your door with a hand-delivered D800, tested by Phil Askey himself, and filmed by your local news station, along with a parade and fireworks.

If I worked for Nikon, I would call B&H and tell them to place Jeff Wu to the back of the line every day until all back-orders are delivered.

-- hide signature --

There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.

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kenwj
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Re: This is a joke
In reply to Sylvain Larive, May 1, 2012

I think you are letting your emotions and anger influence your view of what stockholders want. They don't lose any profit because of this. They are more profitable because of this. Every asset they own is running flat out.

They are not going to build a production line sized to satisfy initial demand. The factory would be oversized and inefficient after the demand was satisfied. The option would have been to delay shipping until they have an adequate inventory and that means you wouldn't see one until June/July anyway and they would have delayed cash flow.

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kenwj
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Re: This is a joke
In reply to Sylvain Larive, May 1, 2012

Shareholders are not complaining. The factory could not get more efficient if it wanted to. They are running flat out, they are selling all their inventory and they have something that people want and have no alternatives for.

They are happy. If they say they are not, they are only giving lip service.

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David H Dennis
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Re: Nikon needs to FIRE employees related to D4/D800/E Release
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

I dunno. I just got the call from my local dealer saying the shipment they expected to have my D4 didn't have it :(. Still backordered. So I should feel just as upset as everyone else.

That being said ... I think Nikon has done an awfully good job at giving the affluent, camera-consuming public what it wants. As a result, demand has exceeded supply. My pal at my dealer says he can't believe the number of people pushing for D800s. I told him my feeling on the ground was that there are at least 10 buyers per existing camera and he told me I was right, if not a little low :(.

So I can't be too hard on the executives. Do we want them to produce mediocre junk at high prices that nobody wants to buy?

Somebody mentioned Apple. When Apple was not as insanely rich as it is today, they had virtually identical problems - all the Apple fans wanted Apple computers on intro day, and Apple generally had hardly any. Now that Apple commands nearly unlimited resources, its supply chain is far more efficient, and even with all this they run out of stock on hot items like iPads all the time. True, it is days, not months, for them to get back on track, but that's because they have both Tim Cook and an unlimited budget to get things right.

Despite the strange autofocusing glitches, people seem really happy with their D4s and D800s - they are certainly taking beautiful pictures with them! Perhaps we should celebrate this and have a little patience. It will be rewarded soon enough; after all, Nikon isn't going to get paid until it shops us cameras!

D

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JeffWu
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Re: Not too bright
In reply to Biological_Viewfinder, May 1, 2012

Don't get me wrong buddy ... I honestly don't care. I have enough great camera equipment and take plenty of fine photographs in my spare time w/o the Nikon D4/D800/E - it would be nice to have the new equipment to play with for a few years, but no biggie. I just find it very amusing ... in a free market economy, the horrendous error in forecasting demand at Nikon, and to compound that error by their inability to scale up mfg. to meet that demand is simply inexcusable - a total failure of corporate management.

This is not a Ferrari or a Patek Phillipe (one of a kind items) - these are mass produced glorified CPUs with digital light sensors, which are obsolete the moment they are announced. As a member of the fine financial industry in the US, I like my companies flush with cash - not when they file their 10-Ks but when I pick up my 10-Qs. If I am a shareholder, it's about assets producing income and profit NOW, not Q2, Q3, or Q4. I work with a multinational company now that has the same issue regarding meeting demand ... advice: start taking a larger equity posture and start thinking about ousting management. Like it or not, that's a market economy.

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Bernie Ess
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Re: And you need to...
In reply to Dennis Watts, May 1, 2012

Dennis Watts wrote:

It seems that most of the posters to this thread are missing the point.

You do not of course, correct?

The point is there is a definite appearance that the company doesn't love us anymore.

I guess it is naive to believe that they ever did. Companies, and particulary multi billion companies never love their customers, they just try to get as many as possible, and the only reason to offer good products is to get more customers.

Some of the reasons that point to Nikon's lack of concern about customer impressions.
1. Raising the price of the product before it's even readily available.
2. Not providing information about supply a regular basis.

3. Removing features that were previously advertised from the product (Capture NX 2).

ad 1: Raising the price very quickly was certainly not a clever move, but seen what the competition (Canon) offered (5d3) they probably discovered how cheap their d800 really was at the initial price, thus they raised it. It is still not expensive seen the performance.

ad 2: Information about supply? Who ever does? And did Nikon do this before? Maybe they cannot tell because the situation (demand) is so strong that they simply have no overview at the moment. Or do not want to admit how far they are behind the necessary production volume in order to meet the demand.

ad3: Removing the software in the US was about as clever as no. 1, but do not forget that the d800 - like most cameras - is cheaper in the US than in Europe. So they just adapt the price to the international level. They should have done it before, not after, but otherwise, not a catastrophy.

cheers
Bernie

Whether Nikon cares or not there is definitely the impression out there that they don't. If you don't believe me try asking them questions sometime...

"the D800E USA model will not have the Capture NX2 software included as a bundle like the D800E in Europe."

that answer tells me that they've given no effort into addressing this issue. And that lack of effort tells me they really don't care.

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'All the technique in the world doesn’t compensate for the inability to notice.' (Elliot Erwitt)

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lock
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If you want to go this route
In reply to Ed Overstreet, May 1, 2012

you will need another interpretation of the basics of a good and future proof economy.

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ShootDuringTwilight
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You just don't get it
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

You work for a financial firm and don't have a clue about inventory levels, supply/ demand? Really strange. I guess it's too hard for you to understand that Nikon is operating at full capacity churning out cameras as fast as they can physically do so. No company is going to build up inventory levels months in advance bleeding cash in the process. So basically if the camera cost Nikon $2000 to make, then per you they should have built up let's say 6 months supply at 30,000 per month. In other words tie up 30,000 * 6 (months) * $2,000 = $360mm in cash tied up so that you and other whiners can get their cameras at the same time.

Boy I really hope that none of us ever gets you as a financial adviser. You really don't have a clue!

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emem
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Sounds like a pseudo-intellectual, pseudo-economics ....
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

... tantrum to me. I'm sure you'll get your new toy(s) soon, Mr Wu.
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JeffWu
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Re: This is a joke
In reply to kenwj, May 1, 2012

You ever heard of Just-In-Time mfg.? It's been around for about 20-years ... actually, now come to think of it, it was the Japanese that were preaching this to US companies. Hmm, ... as a modern mfg. company, Nikon should be able to scale up and down its supply chain, depending on the demand it sees for its various products ... see this is supposed to work both ways.

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user_name
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I disagree, Jeff.
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

You are just emotional over a business matter that you really do not understand as well as you think.

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JeffWu
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Re: You just don't get it
In reply to ShootDuringTwilight, May 1, 2012

You may want to familiarize yourself with a concept known as Just-In-Time mfg. ... a really nifty concept that's been around for a while.

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weinschela
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Re: Nikon needs to FIRE employees related to D4/D800/E Release
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

JeffWu, thank you for your post. I now understand that you are smarter than everyone at Nikon and even smarter than everyone else who posts. Plus you are a fine photographer who doesn't care about equipment. Your only concern is the management of Nikon. Okay they underestimated demand because they built a good camera at an attractive price point and got it to market before Canon knew what was hitting them. I would call that a competitive coup. Would you have had them build a expanded or new factory in advance of release on the hope that they would have a hit? What if it all turned out wrong? What if Canon had not been passed? Then they would have overestimated demand, and the net effect of that is incur the cost of running a foctory (or factories) at less than full efficiency. That secanrio my friend would have had a profound effect on the biottom line. They have a hit on their hands. I see very few people abandoning their place in line to buy a Canon and even of there were a few of those the lost profits on those sales are trivial compared to the capital cost of a new factory. No, JeffWu, you don't have any understanding of economics or firm management, and all I can say is I am happy you are not in charge of Nikon. If you are in charge of some other company, would you kindly let us know -- I would go right out and short your stock.

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ShootDuringTwilight
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Re: You just don't get it
In reply to JeffWu, May 1, 2012

JeffWu wrote:

You may want to familiarize yourself with a concept known as Just-In-Time mfg. ... a really nifty concept that's been around for a while.

LOL, really? You think JIT works in a case where there is so much demand? You really don't have a clue. How in the world do you expect Nikon to use JIT when the demand is so high, unless they open up 10 more production lines? So you want them to have a CapEx setting up more production lines, so that this temporary demand can be met? And once the demand dies - what then? Those lines just lie dormant?

Your ignorance is really striking!

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