Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it

Started Apr 30, 2012 | Discussions
alex111
New MemberPosts: 22
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Re: Nikon have solved it?
In reply to D800, May 1, 2012

You are welcome. My name is the first on the list

D800 wrote:

Thanks alex111 for putting this list together! Please add yourself to the list if you have left AF issue and you are not in this list.

alex111 wrote:
here are some of the people on this forum that have/had af issue:

alex111
ARB1
wl7
PLMSG
zoltrix79
russbarnes
shzygjrmdwg
Julian Vrieslander
inasir1971
PhillipAnthony
reginalddwight
CaptainObvious
nikoj
andrew_london
4horsemen
Adam Rogers
D800
studio460
tach32000
M Lammerse
handymanuk
Richard Spangler
jonstatt
mattr
Marc Heijligers
AdamBAdam
victor china
furfur local
the resolution
jplatanou
JMacedo
ocean7
Reimar
Livio Spallone

I do not thing its just a few, or some sort of hype!

ukat123 wrote:

I got my (UK) D800 on Saturday, and because of the dozens of scary threads about AF issues, I spent (wasted) the whole of Sunday testing and shooting exclusively with the left and right AF points, with my 35G 1.4....

Good news, the AF, albeit quite slow with the 35G, is working very very well indeed. I don't even see the need for any AF fine tuning, contrary to when I was using the same lens on my D700 and D3S when I needed to put +8 of fine tuning.

I have not tested it with any other lens and this is my only lens at the moment.

As far as I can tell, the extreme left and extreme right AF points work perfectly well; just as well as the centre point.

That is what I can see.

I discussed with a pro photographer in my area who also tested his D800 with different lenses, and he had NO AF issue whatsoever neither.

I don't know if there is a batch issue or even if there is an issue or it is more people who do things they are not supposed to be doing.

Strange. Perhaps it is just a case of very few people who have problems and they are just a bit vocal on this forum which makes you believe there is a general issue. That is definitely not the case. That's the thing with internet. 10 people complain and it looks like 100000 people.

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jonstatt
Regular MemberPosts: 331
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Re: If they that is the issue it raises more questions than it answers
In reply to inasir1971, May 1, 2012

inasir1971 wrote:

If that is the case, why are some cameras exhibiting the issue and some are not? There certainly are some cameras that are exhibiting the issue. There are also some cameras which are not. I have no idea what the split is but that is certainly the case.

For example, JMacedo and I both have cameras from exactly the same batch I believe - same store, collection date. His certainly has an issue, and mine doesn't (I tried the 3D AF tracking which uses all 51 AF points on flying birds and virtually nothing was OOF).

The other thing that I noted was that virtually all of the adjustments that people were using (myself included) were (i) negative, (ii) larger on faster lenses. I had earlier believed that this was because the default alignment out of the box would have to be backwards, and larger on faster lenses to accommodate the focus shift on these.

I assume that everyone has the same firmware (A 1.00, B 1.00)?

Why the different behavior then? Unless this is some software glitch affecting SOME of the machines that they were using to calibrate the sensors, I don't quite understand how this can be the case?

As you both got from the same store I assume you are local to each other? I don't suppose you swapped cameras, so that JMacedo could try his lens on your camera and use the same shot he was having problems with? All cameras so far are A and B 1.00 . I think there is a third firmware bank that is not 1.00 though....need to check again.

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jonstatt
Regular MemberPosts: 331
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to ukat123, May 1, 2012

ukat123 wrote:

Not only is my AF spot on with my 35G whatever the AF point with zero AF fine tuning when shot at 1.4, 2.0 and 2.8 at any distance I can think of and it also shots perfectly at infinity, but just tested it in near darkness and wow, what an improvement compared to D700. I obsessively tried to get a left AF issue and shot all over the place, but nothing. this AF system is just perfect and way better than my old D3S and D700. I made all my shots with the camera on standard settings in AFS. Maybe some people have customised their camera in a certain way that impacts the AF accuracy. I would be curious to understand from all the people who say they have problems if they use customised settings at all, and in which mode they are shooting.

what about an interaction between the body, the lens and the settings...that would be fun to solve

This AF issue is a mystery. Good luck to Nikon to find what is causing this trouble to some users

I believe the focus module in the D800 is the same as the D700. It is still a CAM3500FX. So I don't see how it can do better in low light. The exposure sensor is new and improved though but that wouldn't affect focus.

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Julian Vrieslander
Contributing MemberPosts: 899
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to jonstatt, May 1, 2012

jonstatt wrote:

I believe the focus module in the D800 is the same as the D700. It is still a CAM3500FX. So I don't see how it can do better in low light.

I read somewhere (I can't remember where) that the version in the D800 has better optical elements, and that allegedly accounts for the improved low light performance.

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ukat123
Contributing MemberPosts: 761
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to jonstatt, May 1, 2012

jonstatt wrote:

ukat123 wrote:

Not only is my AF spot on with my 35G whatever the AF point with zero AF fine tuning when shot at 1.4, 2.0 and 2.8 at any distance I can think of and it also shots perfectly at infinity, but just tested it in near darkness and wow, what an improvement compared to D700. I obsessively tried to get a left AF issue and shot all over the place, but nothing. this AF system is just perfect and way better than my old D3S and D700. I made all my shots with the camera on standard settings in AFS. Maybe some people have customised their camera in a certain way that impacts the AF accuracy. I would be curious to understand from all the people who say they have problems if they use customised settings at all, and in which mode they are shooting.

what about an interaction between the body, the lens and the settings...that would be fun to solve

This AF issue is a mystery. Good luck to Nikon to find what is causing this trouble to some users

I believe the focus module in the D800 is the same as the D700. It is still a CAM3500FX. So I don't see how it can do better in low light. The exposure sensor is new and improved though but that wouldn't affect focus.

oh. really and what about the ability this.....

51-point AF system with 15 cross-type sensors, rated to -2EV* (compared to -1EV)

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u007
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to ukat123, May 1, 2012

I'm wondering what % of people had a focus issue with the d700 and just didn't realise it!

The higher resolution is going to need more tight QC on Nikon's part since all of those little AF errors and lens deficiencies can be highlighted more easily now.

I know that a lot of review sites are buying D800Es for testing lenses now

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My travel photography blog - http://www.frescoglobe.com

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jonstatt
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14-24 has problems on D700 too - see link
In reply to u007, May 1, 2012

The 14-24 lens has always been an exception. I remembered that I didn't always get consistent focusing results with the D700, but as I don't have the D700 body now, I am not able to compare.

Look at this previous link:-
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1030&message=29244425

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KnightPhoto2
Senior MemberPosts: 1,304Gear list
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Re: 14-24 has problems on D700 too - see link
In reply to jonstatt, May 1, 2012

The 14-24, according to DigLloyd has an unusual focussing property, so in my view is a terrible candidate lens with which to evaluate AF. To avoid this problem shoot wide open.

Anyhow every time I read a D800 AF problem and the shooter is quoting 14-24 results this pretty much invadidates the test for me. Unless we are certain the 14-24 was shot wide open. I would like the 14-24 people go back and reproduce results with their existing camera first, to see if they are encountering a heretofore property of the lens that they were not aware of. DigLloyd pointed this out years ago btw to subscribers.
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Best Regards,
SteveK

http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/119002

 KnightPhoto2's gear list:KnightPhoto2's gear list
Nikon 1 V1 Nikon D4 Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II +15 more
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JoJoJoJo
Junior MemberPosts: 25Gear list
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Re: Nikon have solved it?
In reply to alex111, May 1, 2012

alex111 wrote:

here are some of the people on this forum that have/had af issue:

alex111
ARB1
wl7
PLMSG
zoltrix79
russbarnes
shzygjrmdwg
Julian Vrieslander
inasir1971
PhillipAnthony
reginalddwight
CaptainObvious
nikoj
andrew_london
4horsemen
Adam Rogers
D800
studio460
tach32000
M Lammerse
handymanuk
Richard Spangler
jonstatt
mattr
Marc Heijligers
AdamBAdam
victor china
furfur local
the resolution
jplatanou
JMacedo
ocean7
Reimar
Livio Spallone

I do not thing its just a few, or some sort of hype!

Hey, you may add me as well in the list, since my D4 also has this problem.

 JoJoJoJo's gear list:JoJoJoJo's gear list
Nikon D700 Nikon D4 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 17-35mm f/2.8D ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D +3 more
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tach32000
Regular MemberPosts: 146
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Re: 14-24 has problems on D700 too - see link
In reply to KnightPhoto2, May 1, 2012

I experienced this with 50-1.4, 14-24, 24-70 and slightly with my 70-300.

Not, an issue just with the 14-24

KnightPhoto2 wrote:

The 14-24, according to DigLloyd has an unusual focussing property, so in my view is a terrible candidate lens with which to evaluate AF. To avoid this problem shoot wide open.

Anyhow every time I read a D800 AF problem and the shooter is quoting 14-24 results this pretty much invadidates the test for me. Unless we are certain the 14-24 was shot wide open. I would like the 14-24 people go back and reproduce results with their existing camera first, to see if they are encountering a heretofore property of the lens that they were not aware of. DigLloyd pointed this out years ago btw to subscribers.
--
Best Regards,
SteveK

http://images.nikonians.org/galleries/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/119002

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jonstatt
Regular MemberPosts: 331
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Re: 14-24 has problems on D700 too - see link
In reply to KnightPhoto2, May 1, 2012

The problem is definitely there wide-open from what I can see. But I am still wondering if this lens is a special case. While there may well be AF issues with the D800, this particular lens could throw additional confusion.

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jonstatt
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Tried a second 50mm AF-S 1.4 - Better (not cured)
In reply to voider, May 1, 2012

So some of you who have followed my posts will know the lens I was most troubled with was the 50mm 1.4 AF-S. I have got hold of a second copy of it and it behaves differently on the D800. There is still an element of backfocus with the edge sensors, but it is better than the first sample and considerably so. By dialling in AF fine tune of -8, the centre remains perfectly in focus at F1.4, and the leftmost just a little bit softer than CDAF shows. Now on the first 50mm lens, even if I stopped down to F4 or higher, because it was constantly focusing at the edge of the DOF, it was never in focus. This is not the case with this copy. As I stop down to F4 or beyond, all focus points are sharp and perfect. So while there is still an intrinsic camera issue here with my D800, it IS a complex interaction of lens and camera as well...that means some may well never notice it even if they are affected.

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inasir1971
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Re: Tried a second 50mm AF-S 1.4 - Better (not cured)
In reply to jonstatt, May 1, 2012

The AF-S 50mm 1.4G exhibits a considerable amount of focus shift which is I think complicating things (PDAF is done wide open and then stopped down for the shot).

If using to adjust you lens, please download original and view 100% vertical size:
http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/1247171620/photos/1900093/focus-shift-50-14g

jonstatt wrote:

So some of you who have followed my posts will know the lens I was most troubled with was the 50mm 1.4 AF-S. I have got hold of a second copy of it and it behaves differently on the D800. There is still an element of backfocus with the edge sensors, but it is better than the first sample and considerably so. By dialling in AF fine tune of -8, the centre remains perfectly in focus at F1.4, and the leftmost just a little bit softer than CDAF shows. Now on the first 50mm lens, even if I stopped down to F4 or higher, because it was constantly focusing at the edge of the DOF, it was never in focus. This is not the case with this copy. As I stop down to F4 or beyond, all focus points are sharp and perfect. So while there is still an intrinsic camera issue here with my D800, it IS a complex interaction of lens and camera as well...that means some may well never notice it even if they are affected.

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D800
Regular MemberPosts: 199
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Re: Nikon have solved it?
In reply to JoJoJoJo, May 1, 2012

Added JoJoJoJo to the list:

alex111
ARB1
wl7
PLMSG
zoltrix79
russbarnes
shzygjrmdwg
Julian Vrieslander
inasir1971
PhillipAnthony
reginalddwight
CaptainObvious
nikoj
andrew_london
4horsemen
Adam Rogers
D800
studio460
tach32000
M Lammerse
handymanuk
Richard Spangler
jonstatt
mattr
Marc Heijligers
AdamBAdam
victor china
furfur local
the resolution
jplatanou
JMacedo
ocean7
Reimar
Livio Spallone
JoJoJoJo

JoJoJoJo wrote:

alex111 wrote:

here are some of the people on this forum that have/had af issue:

alex111
ARB1
wl7
PLMSG
zoltrix79
russbarnes
shzygjrmdwg
Julian Vrieslander
inasir1971
PhillipAnthony
reginalddwight
CaptainObvious
nikoj
andrew_london
4horsemen
Adam Rogers
D800
studio460
tach32000
M Lammerse
handymanuk
Richard Spangler
jonstatt
mattr
Marc Heijligers
AdamBAdam
victor china
furfur local
the resolution
jplatanou
JMacedo
ocean7
Reimar
Livio Spallone

I do not thing its just a few, or some sort of hype!

Hey, you may add me as well in the list, since my D4 also has this problem.

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jonstatt
Regular MemberPosts: 331
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Re: Tried a second 50mm AF-S 1.4 - Better (not cured)
In reply to inasir1971, May 1, 2012

Indeed. I think this lens is very sensitive in combination with any inaccuracy in the camera. This second sample does considerably better though, in particular as the aperture is closed down, but still shows some slight softness via PDAF on the left side from F1.4 to F2.8. While I can see the difference against CDAF, I may not have noticed the issue if it hadn't have been for forum reports. I would probably have chalked it up to CA and being slightly softer at the edges of the lens. Whereas the first copy of the 50mm, looks rediculous at F1.4 on the left side. However I still need to set the AF Tune to -8 to achieve this comrpomise with my D800.

I have also noticed that periodically the camera will take a few 15% off shots even with the centre focus. And I am scratching my head, go to try again, and then its fine for ages...then every now and then it decides to have a bit of a hissy fit.

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CFynn
Senior MemberPosts: 5,109Gear list
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to voider, May 1, 2012

voider wrote:

Hi,

according to my pro store Nikon has identified the problem. It seems to be a software problem which has been fixed on all future cameras. According to them this is why there was such a low delivery over the last weeks.

You can probably send your camera to Nikon and let them fix it quickly...if they ever make a press release about it is still unclear. I am also not sure if every camera or just a few had this problem since many posted examples with good results...

If it is indeed a software problem - then surely the next firmware update should fix it.

 CFynn's gear list:CFynn's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Nikon D800E Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D Nikon AF Nikkor 105mm f/2D DC Nikon AF Nikkor 180mm f/2.8D ED-IF +14 more
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ashdot1111
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to CFynn, May 1, 2012

I am also having problems with left focusing point only through viewfinder images, not live view.

 ashdot1111's gear list:ashdot1111's gear list
Nikon D90 Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6G ED-IF Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 35mm f/1.8G Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED +1 more
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Julian Vrieslander
Contributing MemberPosts: 899
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Re: Update on left AF Point Issue - Nikon seems to solved it
In reply to CFynn, May 1, 2012

CFynn wrote:

If it is indeed a software problem - then surely the next firmware update should fix it.

I have not seen evidence that anyone outside Nikon understands the root cause of the problem. We don't even know if people within Nikon have figured it out. I have only seen one report on this forum from someone (Jmasedo) who has apparently had the issue repaired, and who has also posted unambiguous before/after sample images. His fix involved at least two visits with Nikon service and they spent hours tweaking his D800.

So it is not clear that a firmware update can solve the problem. But I hope you are right.

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danidentity
Contributing MemberPosts: 737
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Does this AF problem happen on the D4 as well?
In reply to voider, May 1, 2012

I haven't been following this problem too closely. Is this a D800-only problem, or does it affect both the D800 and D4?

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jonstatt
Regular MemberPosts: 331
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Re: Tried a second 50mm AF-S 1.4 - Better (not cured)
In reply to jonstatt, May 1, 2012

This second copy of the 50mm is really a lot lot better. I am convinced now I would never have noticed the slight difference between left with PDAF and CDAF if I had not read these forums. So that just leaves the 14-24 which is backfocusing on BOTH sides, not just the left. All other lenses now okay.

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