It's REAL clear to me now.

Started Apr 30, 2012 | Discussions
TFergus
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 30, 2012

I think most others realized this as soon as they read the FPS spec...

Didn't take trying them side-by-side.

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David H Dennis
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 30, 2012

I have a D300 right now. If I try to shoot continuous action, it will start by shooting somewhere around 4-5 fps, but after a couple of seconds it will quickly slow down to more like 2 fps and then an agonizing 1fps and then it will just freeze until it can write to the card.

From what I've seen, I can pretty much count on the D4 shooting at 10fps for for 10 seconds or more, but I don't think my D300 would even shoot at its full speed for more than a second or two.

Does the D800 continuously shoot like the D4, just at a lower rate? Or does it slow down and die like the D300? If I were a betting man, I'd say the latter, which means the difference in shooting speed between them is HUGE.

Incidentally, for the D700 fellow, note that it has a speed rating of 8FPS, so it's much more similar to the D4 than the D800. The D700 shooting range is decent for action photography, but the D800 is far worse.

Hope that helps.

D

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sssesq
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to David H Dennis, Apr 30, 2012

David H Dennis wrote:

I have a D300 right now. If I try to shoot continuous action, it will start by shooting somewhere around 4-5 fps, but after a couple of seconds it will quickly slow down to more like 2 fps and then an agonizing 1fps and then it will just freeze until it can write to the card.

Your camera buffer is filled...If you are using an older card (Slower to write) get a faster card. This may help a bit, but you may not be able to get significantly more frames before slowing down as the camera buffer is prob filled after a while. You should be able to find how many frames your body can handle before being filled by googling reviews of your body. Also, if the D300 has a focus-release mode you will slow down if focus is not obtained quickly.

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bmcent1
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to hackney24, Apr 30, 2012

hackney24 wrote:

bleak.... why not just film it and take the stills.

1080p is only 2 MP.

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hackney24
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to sssesq, Apr 30, 2012

sssesq wrote:

hackney24 wrote:

Event_shooter wrote:

you just point in the "direction" of the shot and hold the shutter down and you are guaranteed the shot - hands down, no missed shot.

bleak.... why not just film it and take the stills.

Hackney...This is one of the statements by event_Shooter that caused me to ask if s(he) was acting like a bit of a troll...I guess that Event_Shooter does not simply point and hold the button down...more like (s)he was trying to get a rise form some unspecting newbie...

The word bleak wasn't really a rise, just seems the way things are going these days in general. I can't imagine (s)he is that sad and pathetic to try and gain rises... maybe it was, I am new and if thats the way things go down hear i think i'll pass.

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sssesq
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to bmcent1, Apr 30, 2012

Ya gotta be careful in these forums as a lot of people will post stupidity to try to get a response...I guess that the poster of the 'do video' knows full well that the camera caputers at much lower resolution than still shots, otherwise one could do stills at 60pfs...

I have nothing good to say about them as these types as they were once newbies, too. Try to pull someone up rather than drag them down, and your stature with the other posters will only increase if you do.

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Event_shooter
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to TFergus, Apr 30, 2012

TFergus wrote:

I think most others realized this as soon as they read the FPS spec...

Didn't take trying them side-by-side.

Ya actually it does. Show me in the specs that you read how long it takes for the buffer to recover before you are able to shoot again. ......Booya, you can't because the ONLY WAY you know is to hold it in your hands and push the button.

Show me the various buffer recovery times depending on what size your shooting....what nothing, hmm wonder why.....wait I KNOW WHY because you can't "realize that by reading the specs"

Buffer recovery is a lot different than FPS.

Real world shooting is a lot different than "reading". How about "reading" the average fuel MPG on every car manufactured and then when you get behind the wheel you never ever reach those "published specs" - do you.

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PHXAZCRAIG
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Re: It works wonderful for sports too
In reply to M Lammerse, Apr 30, 2012

Try speed chess matches at about the 9:30 mark.

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RBFresno
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 30, 2012

I took the D4 and the D800E out yesterday to shoot some wind surfing. I put both on CH, and fired both.

I left the D800 on full rez, large Raw/fine, as with the D4.

Yes, we all know the D800E is NOT a sports shooter camera, but until you actually hold them, use them in a real life situation it doesn't really drive it home.

In my opinion there is no way you can shoot a sport event with the D800E. OH SURE I get the part of being a super photographer and hitting the button at the precise moment you can shoot side by side with a D4 - NO you can't.

There really, really are images that happen with subtle differences when shooting at 10-12 shots or 3-4 shots.

Then there is a "work" part. with the D4 vs the D800E. With the D4, you just point in the "direction" of the shot and hold the shutter down and you are guaranteed the shot - hands down, no missed shot. The D800E you need to pay attention, concentrate, anticipate, etc. etc. You know, the things every photographer needs to know and do.

Bottom line if you make a living shooting fast paced the D800E is not for you. If you want AMAZING resolution the D4 is not for you.

These things we've know since the two cameras were announced, but driven home in spades to me yesterday.

Hi!

It's reassuring to hear your experience reinforcing the opinion that I've been forming.

I currently have a D4 and D3, but plan on selling the D3 and eventually getting an 800E.

They seem like a good compliment to one another for someone like meyself who shoots a wide variety of subjects

In the meantime, I'll "suffer" with the D3 as my second body:

Nikon D3 ,Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 2/100 ZF
1/320s f/8.0 at 100.0mm iso800

Nikon D3 ,Carl Zeiss Makro-Planar T* 2/100 ZF
1/400s f/8.0 at 100.0mm iso200

Nikon D3 ,Nikkor AF-S 14-24mm f/2.8G ED ,SB-900
1/125s f/9.0 at 14.0mm iso200

Best regards,

RB

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Fearless_Photog
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to sssesq, Apr 30, 2012

sssesq wrote:

My, my, touched a nerve, did I. I am certainly not a D700 fanboy. I am saving my coins to get the D800 cause it answers many of the problems of not being able to afford long glass (400 2.8 @ $9500.00 US). What it takes to get 'The Shot' with the D800 are good understanding of the sport and good technique shooting and good skill in post.

I don't get your point here, the D700 can shoot at twice the framerate of the D800. I don't think anyone is arguing that an 8fps camera isn't suitable for sports, but would you choose to set your D700 to 4fps for these events? I doubt it.

Yeah, you can talk all day about how anticipating the moment and knowing your subject will get you great action shots regardless of the camera, and yes it will. It won't get you as many though. When I'm shooting wildlife I'm not just spray and praying at a whole bunch of birds. I'm still waiting for the right moment to start a burst, and stopping and starting as needed. The fact is, doing that combined with a high frame rate will give you a lot more great shots to choose from, a lot more wing positions/body positions, whatever applies. For example a couple of weeks ago I was shooting lions, and every time one yawned I would fire off a burst, knowing when to start mattered, but I'd still much rather have 8-10 different open mouthed pics to choose from than 4-5.

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Event_shooter
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to sssesq, Apr 30, 2012

sssesq wrote:

hackney24 wrote:

Event_shooter wrote:

you just point in the "direction" of the shot and hold the shutter down and you are guaranteed the shot - hands down, no missed shot.

bleak.... why not just film it and take the stills.

Hackney...This is one of the statements by event_Shooter that caused me to ask if s(he) was acting like a bit of a troll...I guess that Event_Shooter does not simply point and hold the button down...more like (s)he was trying to get a rise form some unspecting newbie...

*********************************************************************

Hackney, thanks for "getting it". One always must decide how far one needs to spoon feed remarks to unsuspecting posters. Thanks you for confirming my convictions that at least a few people here have a brain.

I'll let my analogy float out there as chum to feed the trolls, while I snicker at them .

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larrywilson
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to Fearless_Photog, Apr 30, 2012

I agree with Fearless. If I am shooting a 400 meter track race I want a fast frame rate of more than 4 frames per second, heck a 400 meter runner will cover approximately 8 meters in a second. I am looking for facial expression and proper position of the runners legs so nice to have a lot more to chose from with shooting the d4.

I do a lot of bird shooting, some in flight and the 4 frames a second does not do it for me. As I said earlier each camera model has its own best shooting situations whether its a slow wedding or a fast bird in flight.

Larry

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RBFresno
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About those lions......
In reply to Fearless_Photog, Apr 30, 2012

The fact is, doing that combined with a high frame rate will give you a lot more great shots to choose from, a lot more wing positions/body positions, whatever applies.

For example a couple of weeks ago I was shooting lions, and every time one yawned I would fire off a burst, knowing when to start mattered, but I'd still much rather have 8-10 different open mouthed pics to choose from than 4-5.

Yep:

Nikon D4 ,Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4G ED VR
1/1000s f/8.0 at 500.0mm iso1600

Nikon D4 ,Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4G ED VR
1/320s f/10.0 at 500.0mm iso800

And Leopards too :
Nikon D4 ,Nikkor AF-S 500mm f/4G ED VR ,SB-900
1/500s f/4.0 at 500.0mm iso4000

Best Regards,

RB

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vFunct
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Fashion photography is headed this way as well
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 30, 2012

There are some fashion photographers shooting with Red cameras in full 24fps/30fps modes, to get the exact perfect moment.

High FPS is VERY useful when dealing with moving people.

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sssesq
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 30, 2012
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Georgino
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Re: Check out the link before you make up your mind about D800 and fast action.
In reply to Event_shooter, Apr 30, 2012

Event_shooter wrote:

sssesq wrote:

Refering to the Polo shots.

You're not understanding my point. Yes you can shoot a few frames of the D800 and get a great shot, buy no one can take a high series of photos with the D800E.

Take the Polo shots. Show me the three frames before each of those shots and show me the 4 frames after each of those posted shots. You can't no one can because it's impossible for the D800E to capture those shots at full resolution. I know I shot them both side my side. One shoots like a musket rifle the other shoots like a machine gun.

Yes the posted polo shot shows a person on a horse with a mallet across his face. Wouldn't a better shot be a second later or earlier when the mallet was NOT blocking his face? Let's say you like that mallet across his face, great, but with the D4 you get to decide when you get home which is the better shot because you have three shots before the face, three shots on the face and three shots after the face THEN you get to select one or all as a great shot.

One reason is with such big files the buffer took it's good ole time to write, which locked the camera out for any shooting. So if you shoot a burst with the D800E, and you fill the buffer after a burst, you must wait for the camera to clear. In sports you sometimes don't have the time to wait for the buffer to clear. an entire car crash can happen while you wait for the buffer to clear.

Same goes for any of the ball shots. Maybe the mallet actually hitting the ball is a better shot, seeing the ball deformed by the force - who knows, we will never know because the D800E doesn't allow us to see that type of series of shots.

Shooting with the D800E you are limited to what you choose strictly my the math and the number of shots limited by the 800E.

No one is arguing you can't take a sports photo or use the 800E for anything and everything, BUT the D4 puts the D800 to shame as for sports, and if people want to keep arguing that point then all I can say is talk to the hand, because my work is done here.

Nikon drew a line in the sand D4 fast for sports, D800E stunning quality. No one can ever make one do what the other does, PERIOD.

I bought both because I assumed this was true, now like I said, the real world woke me up.

Had I only bought the D800E, I would be disappointed in the speed. Had I just bought the D4 I would be disappointed in the MP compared to the D800E.

+1
Excellent explanation, I would love to have both too

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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to Fearless_Photog, Apr 30, 2012

I agree that a higher frame rate would get you more choices for processing. However, I think the D800 can do pretty well shooting DX mode, which helps with frame rate and with focal length. It wouldn't be for a pro, but amateur shooters get to shoot sports and birds on the cheap with a 300mm lens, plus a teleconverter. In fact, a 70-200 with teleconverter would make a good combo for sports, opening up a lot of possibilities if one can get in the right position.

Come to think of it, I have seen pros shooting sports with D300 cameras with the 70-200 - baseball.

Anyway, I think it would be possible to shoot sports with the D800. And birds should be no problem. If one has the money for a 500mm f4 and a D4, certainly you have a better tool. But that is a ton of cash. Try using the D4 with a 300mm lens. Get ready to crop, unless you are right on the sideline or foul line.

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David314
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D800 DX fps, missed opportunity for Nikon
In reply to BackInTheGame, Apr 30, 2012

BackInTheGame wrote:

I agree that a higher frame rate would get you more choices for processing. However, I think the D800 can do pretty well shooting DX mode, which helps with frame rate and with focal length.

I think Nikon missed a real opportunity to sell even more D800's by limiting it to 6 fps in DX mode

8 fps should have been the minimum in DX mode an preferrably, 10.

It woul certainly slam the coffin shut for me on the D400.

Of course Nikon needs more demand for the D800 like a hole in the head

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larrywilson
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Re: About those lions......
In reply to RBFresno, Apr 30, 2012

RB, what beautiful lion images. I have a Nikon 500mm f4.0 vrII lens in the mail as of today. I am shooting with a d3s so should be a good combination with the Nikon 500 for shooting mostly birds. My gosh, the d4 and lens of yours is a beautiful setup and I am sure the person operating these tools is a very, very talented person. Thanks so much for sharing.

Larry

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Event_shooter
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Re: It's REAL clear to me now.
In reply to BackInTheGame, Apr 30, 2012

BackInTheGame wrote:

I agree that a higher frame rate would get you more choices for processing. However, I think the D800 can do pretty well shooting DX mode, which helps with frame rate and with focal length. It wouldn't be for a pro, but amateur shooters get to shoot sports and birds on the cheap with a 300mm lens, plus a teleconverter. In fact, a 70-200 with teleconverter would make a good combo for sports, opening up a lot of possibilities if one can get in the right position.

Come to think of it, I have seen pros shooting sports with D300 cameras with the 70-200 - baseball.

Anyway, I think it would be possible to shoot sports with the D800. And birds should be no problem. If one has the money for a 500mm f4 and a D4, certainly you have a better tool. But that is a ton of cash. Try using the D4 with a 300mm lens. Get ready to crop, unless you are right on the sideline or foul line.

My whole point to the start of this thread is, some people might think, "I'll just get the D800 and put up with it's limitations at sports'. Well, sure, you can do that, but my real point is if you do more fast shooting stay away from the D800 as you will miss shots and you will need to compromise as you suggested above.

If you're just shooting your child's soccer match, the D800 is fine, but if you want to get that one amazing shot that makes you a lot of money, you need the D4 .

Yes the D4 is a lot of cash, but one would assume if you spend that cash you will make it back pretty quickly.

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