Upgrade DSLR

Started Apr 29, 2012 | Discussions
BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Upgrade DSLR
Apr 29, 2012

I currently have an Olympus E620 and would like to upgrade to a intermediate or semi-pro DSLR. I am looking at a Nikon D7000 or the equivalent in a Canon. Are there some thoughts on this between the two manufacturers?

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Nikon D7000 Olympus E-620
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Les Berkley
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, Apr 29, 2012

Tell us, or better, show us, what your Olympus cannot do that you want to do.
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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to Les Berkley, Apr 29, 2012
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Am I getting as good noise reduction, resolution, on overall photo quality with the Olympus as I would get with a higher grade DSLR?
Bill Romer

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Nikon D7000 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D ED-IF Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM +1 more
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Bjorn_L
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, Apr 29, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

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Am I getting as good noise reduction, resolution, on overall photo quality with the Olympus as I would get with a higher grade DSLR?
Bill Romer

No.

The d7000 is currently the best APS-C camera on the sensor level. With similar lens quality it will out perform your older Oly. The newer E-M5 is probably closer, but I would be shocked if it was as good (given the smaller sensor).

The Canon equivalent to the d7000 is the Canon 7d. A very nice camera. Which of these two is right for you depends on a lot of stuff. Mostly your own preferences.

What is your lens budget and your goals?

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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to Bjorn_L, Apr 30, 2012

I do a lot of telephoto shooting. I think the Nikon sounds good to me
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Leonard Migliore
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Look at lenses
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, Apr 30, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

I do a lot of telephoto shooting. I think the Nikon sounds good to me

Check Nikon and Canon for telephoto lens selection and price. There are a few Canon teles that Nikon doesn't have an equivalent to (70-200 f/4 for example). This may or may not be of importance to you, depending on what you're interested in getting.

I don't have either camera but the 7D reportedly has better autofocus than the D7000.

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Leonard Migliore

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photosen
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Re: Look at lenses
In reply to Leonard Migliore, Apr 30, 2012

Good advice on looking at the lenses first - and Canon's 4 70-200 models in particular. Because these cameras are "only" a 1.6 crop as opposed to 2x you might need something even longer like the 400mm 5.6 or the 100-400mm.

The 7D is a great camera but is a lot more chunky than your Olympus. The 60D is a bit smaller, doesn't have the super advanced AF the 7D has.

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inod3
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

If i were you i would expand my search for an upgrade to include the Pentax k-5. For your category it's the best according to many sources.

In camera shake-reduction, build like a tank, weather-resistant and a very good price currently.

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Look at lenses
In reply to photosen, May 1, 2012

photosen wrote:

Good advice on looking at the lenses first - and Canon's 4 70-200 models in particular. Because these cameras are "only" a 1.6 crop as opposed to 2x you might need something even longer like the 400mm 5.6 or the 100-400mm.

The 7D is a great camera but is a lot more chunky than your Olympus. The 60D is a bit smaller, doesn't have the super advanced AF the 7D has.

Don't be silly.

The advantage of DSLRs like those from Nikon and Canon is the lens selection. This is a minus with m4/3's which have a small fraction as many and no long lenses. With Nikon and Canon you can easily get to 800mm actual and beyond if you need to. Add the crop factor of those and you are around 1200mm for field of view and there is no 600mm solution for m4/3 and if there were it would not be able to stabilize it since beyond 200mm (actual) in body stabilization is according to Canon no longer technically capable of keeping up with lens movement in the same way as in lens even if the on sensor stabilization were perfectly implemented (and it is not perfect, nothing is.)

back on topic

Leonard's point about there being select long lenses on Canon which are not on Nikon is correct. There is no 70-200 f/4 from Nikon. There is one for Nikon from Sigma which is 100-300 f/4 in the same price range (at least local prices are the around the same on the used market). There are also 70-200 f2.8 solutions for Nikon and Canon from themselves (which are the worlds best) and pretty good options from Tamron and Sigma for much less. The f2.8 lenses are better for telephoto fans since both Nikon and Canon offer very nice 2x teleconvertors to take them to 140-400 f5.6

There is no 400 f5.6 for Nikon. There are other choices again. Most of which are better but cost more.

The cheaper telephoto is the advantage that Canon has over Nikon at the moment. Unless you want to include lenses like the Sigma 50-500 os which is excellent for the price. But here the trade off is the Nikon has better sensor performance (ISO, dynamic range and color depth) but the Canon goes around 6.7% further (750 v 800mm field of view on the above mentioned Sigma). This extra reach on every lens for tele work might well trump the sensor performance. Plus as Leonard said the 7d has a better focus system. Noise is easier to post process away then a missed shot. I have used both and I did not miss any shots with the d7000 but I know others online here who have.
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unravel
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Re: Look at lenses
In reply to Bjorn_L, May 1, 2012

hmm.. i'd vote Sony a77, great camera and you can find a lot of older minolta glass, including some great old telephoto lenses (100-400 APO, beercan, etc)

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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to inod3, May 1, 2012
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I am looking at the Nikon D7000 with the Nikon 18- 300 lens and a 1.4 Nikon teleconverter..is that a good choice
Bill Romer

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Nikon D7000 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 300mm f/4D ED-IF Tamron SP AF 90mm F/2.8 Di Macro Sigma 50-500mm F4.5-6.3 DG OS HSM +1 more
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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

I also like the higher auto-focus points of the Nikon...is that a better deal?
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Bill Romer

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

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I am looking at the Nikon D7000 with the Nikon 18- 300 lens and a 1.4 Nikon teleconverter..is that a good choice
Bill Romer

No.

The 18-300 will be a variable aperture lens. It will be around f3.5 to 5.6. A 1.4x Nikon TC will not mount on that lens. A Kenko might but it is not a good idea as the results will be too slow and low quality. The bigger the "zoom" the lower the quality. The lower the initial quality the worse the results will be when you reduce it with a TC. Also at the long end (the only reason to use a TC) it will make the lens a 420mm f/8, and autofocus will be erratic. And to get back some of the image quality you will have to stop it down to f/11 and then you will be at the edge where diffraction begins to take away image quality.

To get to 400mm (effective field of view of 600mm) there are several options with the d7000.

Best:

Nikon 400mm f2.8 VR. Freakishly large and heavy and very costly

Nikon 200-400 f/4 VR. Still very large and heavy and costly. But less costly, and can he hand held for more then a few minutes.

Nikon 300mm f2.8 vr + 1.4 TC. Slightly less costly and a lot lighter. This is my personal dream lens. It is fast enough so you can even use a 2x TC for 600mm f5.6

Nikon 70-200 + 2x TC. A lot less costly and completely possible to hand hold. Due to it being a 2x TC autofocus is a little slow (about average speed for a cheap lens)

Nikon 300mm f/4 + 1.4x TC. Close to the 70-200vr but has no stabilization and so is not as flexible in how you use it. But super sharp, excellent results.

Sigma 120-300 f2.8 OS + 1.4x Sigma TC. Probably better then the Nikon 70-200vr + 2x TC but I ranked it lower since it costs a little more and is fairly heavy. But a real stunner of a good lens.

Sigma 100-300 f/4 + 1.4x Sigma or 1.4x Kenko TC. Not stabilized, so it needs a tripod. Very good lens. Highly under-rated and so can often be had used for cheap.

Sigma 50-500 OS. A little slow on the long end, But good image quality in my opinion through out the range. The best of the long range megazooms.

Nikon 80-400 VR. A little older, slow AF, does not AF on a d5100 but is fine on a d7000. Image quality is almost as good as the Nikon 70-200 + VR but it is a single lens solution.

Sigma 120-400 OS. Perhaps a little better than the 80-400. Both are close. Not my favorite lens but I can not put my finger on why.

Tamron 200-500. No stabilization, but otherwise excellent image quality.

Sigma 50-500 (older version with out OS). No stabilization, but very good image quality. Very close to the newer version if you use a tripod and good technique.

Sigma 150-500 OS. not as good as the 50-500 OS but at around half the price, it is a very popular long lens. Thom Hogan (famous photography expert) recently tested this on a Nikon and found it to be very good.

A shorter lens for in close work combined with a long lens for your telephoto work would give the best results.

The shot lens I like is the Nikon 16-85vr. Which was almost always on my Nikon d90.

The long lens I like the most for value is not on my list above since I did not seem long enough to meet your goals. That lens is the Nikon 70-300vr. Which is a reasonably light lens, and truely excellent image quality. Particularly from 70-250 and drops off from "pro level" to just "very good" as you get to 300mm.

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

I also like the higher auto-focus points of the Nikon...is that a better deal?

It can be. I find it useful. But it depends on how you shoot. If all you do is set it to single point and focus on the thing in the middle of the screen, the number of focus points won't matter much.
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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to Bjorn_L, May 1, 2012

Thanks for the info, Bjorn..Now I am wondering about the Canon 60D. are there more lens to chose from and also why won't a TC fit on a variable Nikon camera like the D7000?
Thanks for your comments
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Bill Romer

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

Thanks for the info, Bjorn..Now I am wondering about the Canon 60D. are there more lens to chose from and also why won't a TC fit on a variable Nikon camera like the D7000?
Thanks for your comments

A TC won't work well on a variable aperture lens. it has nothing to do with the camera it has nothing to do with it being a Nikon. It is the same on Canon.

A lens like the 18-200 f3.5-5.6

The f3.5-5.6 bit says that the aperture (the maximum size of the opening in the lens) varies as you zoom in. Those lenses are not good with a TC. Neither is any lens which is wide. A TC is a teleconvertor and is designed to be used on telephoto lenses. Generally 70mm or longer.

The Canon 60d has almost as many lenses to choose from as the d7000. It is very close.

The only difference is Nikon puts a TAB on their TC's to keep them from being put on lenses which could either damage the TC or be damaged by the TC. The Kenko brand TC is made slightly differently and will mount on just about any lens even the ones it should not be used on.
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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to Bjorn_L, May 1, 2012
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Ok..thanks for the update. I have done some research between the two cameras and have made the decision to get the Nikon...now what about a TC on a 70-300 Nikon lens and do you recommend a 1.4 or 2?
Thanks
Bill Romer

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

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Ok..thanks for the update. I have done some research between the two cameras and have made the decision to get the Nikon...now what about a TC on a 70-300 Nikon lens and do you recommend a 1.4 or 2?
Thanks
Bill Romer

I do not recommend a TC on the 70-300. The aperture is both variable and too slow.

The 70-300 lens is a fantastically good lens. I love mine. The ONLY TC you can use on it is the Kenko 1.4x. It should not work, but it does. But because the lens is being pushed right to the edge, it is for "emergency use only". The 70-300 is f4.5 to f5.6 (depending on how much you zoom in). Lenses which work good with TCs are either Just F4 (as in the 300mm f/4 (no zoom, no stabilization)). These work great with a 1.4 and ok with a 1.7. A lens which is F2.8 works great with a 1.4 or 1.7 and very good on the new top of the line 2x TC.

The higher the power on the TC the more light you lose. So a lens is faster without a TC. A little slower with a 1.4, even slower with a 1.7 and a lot slower with a 2x.
A 1.4 costs 1 stop of light (so a f/2.8 becomes a f/4 and a f/4 becomes a f5.6)
a 1.7x cost 1.5 stops of light, so a f2.8 becomes a f4.8
a 2x costs 2 stops of light so a f2.8 becomes a f5.6

So if you meant to write 70-200vr instead of 70-300, then I recommend both a 1.4x and a 2.0x. Specifically the Nikon TC14e II and the Nikon TC20e III (note I wrote III on the 2x, do not get the older II)

But you might have the right lens with the 70-300. It is a much lower cost. It is smaller, lighter and can go with you everywhere. I use this lens alot. I also own a 70-200 and TC, but when the light is good enough I use the smaller lens since the results are almost as good.

I listed out around 6 other really good options. If you do not mind a large heavy lens, and want mainly 1 long lens. The Sigma 50-500os is not as good as the Nikon lenses we are talking about but it is 50mm to 500mm and so you won't even want to bother with a TC.
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See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

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BILLY 0F THE NORTH
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to Bjorn_L, May 1, 2012

Thanks, Bjorn...I reviewed your lens choices once again. So if I went with a Sigma 50-500 I would not need a TC....I understand that I would have approx. a 750 mm on the Nikon D7000...soooo I may look into that as an option. Also does the Sigma have as good as image quality as a Nikon lens or close to it?
Thanks
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Bill Romer

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Bjorn_L
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Re: Upgrade DSLR
In reply to BILLY 0F THE NORTH, May 1, 2012

BILLY 0F THE NORTH wrote:

Thanks, Bjorn...I reviewed your lens choices once again. So if I went with a Sigma 50-500 I would not need a TC....I understand that I would have approx. a 750 mm on the Nikon D7000...soooo I may look into that as an option. Also does the Sigma have as good as image quality as a Nikon lens or close to it?
Thanks

Most Sigma's are close but not as good as the Nikon. There are some exceptions where the Sigma is better.

There is no other lens like the Sigma 50-500os. Image quality will not match the 70-300 but it is close. The more expensive Nikons are better but they are a lot more money. For example, the 300mm f2.8 vr is just a special lens. The Nikon 70-200vr is also very very good. So the Sigma is not close to those. But it costs less, reach further and is very flexible in use.

I own a 70-200vr and a 70-300vr and some TCs. But for casual long lens fun, I still want a Sigma 50-500. If I were a professional and needed 500mm I would get the Nikon 500mm f/4 vr. This is 1 & 1/3rd stop faster aperture than the "Bigma" and is faster to focus and can even follow fast birds in flight. If you check the cost, you will see it is not intended for those who are casual photographers.

I suggest you keep it simple and not too expensive while you are learning. You will need a wide lens for most photos, and a long lens for your hobby. It might be smart to make the wide lens a f2.8, like the Sigma 17-50 f2.8 OS. So it can double as a low light lens until you feel like buying a prime (like the Nikon 35mm f1.8g).

DSLR photography is about picking 1 thing to solve at a time. Sometimes you try to get a flexible use out of a lens, but you have 1 main goal per lens. For example many use the Nikon 105mm f2.8 macro as a portrait lens. But they bought it for a macro.

If you are unsure about the 50-500os due to cost, weight, or whatever. Try the Nikon 70-300vr to start with. Combine either one with either the Nikon 16-85 (my favorite) or a faster lens like the Sigma 17-50. Then just relax and learn how things work, and take a lot of photos.

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See my plan (in my profile) for what I shoot with. See my gallery for images I find amusing.

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Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ5 Canon PowerShot SX30 IS Nikon D700 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 50mm f/1.4G +9 more
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