5D3 owner rents a D800

Started Apr 28, 2012 | Discussions
chironNYC
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Re: d800 has 28% more motiona blur--use a tripod for best results
In reply to 5tve, Apr 29, 2012

Just rolling away, aren't you? But no one here cares what you think. You're either paid to do what you do here or you have no life.

5tve wrote:

chironNYC wrote:

LOL at your constant and repeated dishonesty. Mods deleted the thread because it had no place in a Canon forum. You don't either.

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Peter

You do like making things up don't you.

Please feel free to trawl through my posts & quote examples of my dishonesty & in future if you accuse me of lying I expect you to provide the proof to back it up.

Do you belong in the Canon forums the only photo in your gallery was taken with a Sony camera ?

How many of your threads were deleted by the Mods?

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Peter

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chironNYC
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to carlk, Apr 29, 2012

You are so completely full of it that nothing you say has any meaning. Everyone here recognizes that you do not post in good faith, so whatever you say is ignored.

carlk wrote:

qianp2k wrote:

Carl, you're advocating D800 for weeks and months now in Canon forums. Does Nikon paid you well? What are you waiting for? Your mother of Nikon is calling you, LOL. Get a D800 and let's see how suddenly you can generate stunning images?

Haha are you jealous?

But unlike you I'm only buying a camera I like I don't care who's logo is on it.

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Peter

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scott_mcleod
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Re: But Canon is out-priced
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 29, 2012

Shotcents wrote:

scott_mcleod wrote:

DVT80111 wrote:

of course $500 won't make us move to the other camp, but it is a tectonic shift in a long run.

Unless the D800 owner wants the fabled 6fps in DX crop mode or 5fps in 1.2x crop in which case they'd better get their wallet out for a tectonic shift to the tune of $999.80 in the other direction if they spring for the EN-EL18 and its brutally expensive charger (without which the DX frame rate is not guaranteed - see p.104 of the D800 manual), or a measly $449.95 just for the grip if they want to try it with AA cells. This is almost the price for the complete grip/battery/charger/cap set for the D300/D700 (MB-D10 + EN-EL4A + MH-21 + BL-3 = $492, rounded off).

Sir,

The D800 shoots 5FPS without the grip and with the standard battery. You add the grip for the 6 FPS in DX mode. AA batteries work fine, so why buy the expensive battery?

After re-reading the manual, it looks like you're right - footnote #1 on p.104 makes it sound like you can only get 4fps in FX, when that only applies to CL. My bad.

So the D800 WITH THE GRIP is still cheaper than the 5DIII on it's own.

Hopefully Canon will be smart and sell their grip for $99 to help offset overcharging for the 5DIII.

And of course the D800 grip will see even better 3rd party options because the price of that grip IS FAR TO HIGH.

That was more the point I was making (not very well...) - that the accessory pricing for the D800 is out of this world, and if someone wanted the whole box & dice EN-EL18 setup (say for shooting in cold weather or for longer than AAs will last) then they are going to have to pay up. Not unlike the situation with the D300 (partly rectified with the -s) that you could get 6fps with the internal battery but if you wanted 8fps (which the 7d can do on its internal battery) then you need to buy the grip, which always seemed like a pure marketing decision by Nikon.

But this does not make me want to cancel my D800 order and buy the 5DIII. Nikon built a 4K camera and is selling it for 3K. Canon built a $2500 dollar cam and marked it up to $3500.

I would not try to tell anyone to change their mind, as there are many more factors involved in buying a camera than fps or MP considerations (e.g. lens selection)

Regards,
Scott

Robert

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carlk
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to chironNYC, Apr 30, 2012

You people are absolutely wrong. I'm in the same boat as op but I will most likely buy D800. Like I said whatever is good for me is good for me no matter what brand logo is on the camera. The only issue is I will need to spend more for new lenses if I go dual brand. I just want some objetive opinions, not from you stupid fanboys of course.

You Canon fanboys can just ignore my post if you don't like it but I'm not going to shy away just because you two bit bums don't like it.

BTW what happened to your tearful appolegy? It's all for show to prevent you from being banned?

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Peter 13
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to carlk, Apr 30, 2012

Sure, like what would you do if somebody gave a a few thousand of $ worth of lenses just like this, for free - but by accepting the gift, you promise to keep and use it.

carlk wrote:
Get lost troll. I'm asking op an honest question.

Peter 13 wrote:

carlk wrote:

Would you say you'd choose the D800 if someone gives you a few thousand extra dollars to buy a couple good Nikon lenses?

Yes. And then I will sell all the Nikon stuff and get the 85L and the 50L.

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scott_mcleod
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Re: But Canon is out-pricedScott-mcleod really....
In reply to Daniel Clune, Apr 30, 2012

Daniel Clune wrote:

Come on Scott you can buy a aftermarket grip for D800 very soon. Maybe a 100 bucks. So get real with this 500 grip. Many bought aftermarket grips for d700 and shot at 8fps.

That was more the point I was trying to make (not very well...) - that the accessory pricing for the D800 is out of this world, and if someone wanted the whole box & dice EN-EL18 setup (say for shooting in cold weather or for longer than AAs will last) then they are going to have to pay up big time. Not unlike the situation with the D300 (partly rectified with the -s) that you could get 6fps with the internal battery but if you wanted 8fps (which the 7D can do on its internal battery) then you needed to buy the grip, which always seemed like a pure marketing decision by Nikon (that rubbed me the wrong way as I had a D300 for 4 years). You know there are some people who just have to have OEM stuff even if it's a remote flash cord.

D800 does 5 fps at 1.2 without grip, thats 24 meg by the way. From D800 pdf manual
so no grip and can get 24 meg at 5fps.

"2 The maximum frame advance rate for CH is 5 fps when 1.2× (30×20) 1.2× is
selected for image area."

I know, and that's a pretty good performance. If you could get 6 (or more) fps with the EN-EL18 setup at 36MP (and maybe if it wasn't quite so pricey) then I would say it was worth it.

But here's something I don't get. If the D800 can push 25MP (1.2x crop) images at 5fps on the internal battery, why does it need the grip to do 6fps in DX? That's only 73.5% of the data coming off the sensor compared to the 1.2x rate. My only guess is the mirror/shutter mechanism requires a lot of juice, since it's obviously not a data pipeline issue (BTW this is not a knock, just an observation)

Regards,
Scott

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Jan Madsen
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Re: Nonsense
In reply to Peter 13, Apr 30, 2012

Peter 13 wrote:

What comparison? I got involved at a point when they were discussing the D800 in detail without any comparisons.

Read the OP's post.
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Jan Madsen
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Re: Nonsense
In reply to chironNYC, Apr 30, 2012

chironNYC wrote:

Hypocrite. Don't play innocent. No one objects to good faith discussion of differences. It is the intrusive trolling only about how the d800 is special on a Canon forum that many, mny forum members are objecting to.

Your every post is only to push the d800. Just go to the right forum to do it.

Errrh what are you talking about? I have Canon equipment, and doesn't plan on changing that. But because the D800 looks so good compared to the much awaited 5D3 i think I'll wait for a 5D4 instead (or 3D?) - what's wrong with that?

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Peter 13
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Re: Nonsense
In reply to Jan Madsen, Apr 30, 2012

Jan Madsen wrote:

Peter 13 wrote:

What comparison? I got involved at a point when they were discussing the D800 in detail without any comparisons.

Read the OP's post.

Read my post . It was after 3-4 posts discussing the D800 without any connection to Canon.

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scott_mcleod
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Re: d800 has 28% more resolution-agree!
In reply to Shotcents, Apr 30, 2012

Shotcents wrote:

The advantages of the d800 are mostly the advantages of medium format and view cameras. If you want to work that way to get its advantages, you go right ahead. > > >

Yes, we agree on this as well. So the D800 can do what the 5DIII can do and more, PLUS it can return images that are along the lines of a medium format camera.

Please explain to us how this is a bad thing?

And stop yapping about blur and physics. You sound silly. D800 has LARGER pixel pitch than 7D or D7000. Sheesh.

Robert

Yes, but it has many more pixels on each axis. Thom Hogan explains the consequences very succinctly here:

http://www.bythom.com/2012%20Nikon%20News.htm

Scroll down to the Feb 17 commentary Update. Blur and physics (or simple geometry)...

Scott

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carlk
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to Peter 13, Apr 30, 2012

The question is about what is op's thinking if the extra cost for new lenses is not an object. I know you're just trying to make some fun but did you see what your post have done? It opens door for that bum to hyjack the sub-thread which ended up going nowhere.

Peter 13 wrote:

Sure, like what would you do if somebody gave a a few thousand of $ worth of lenses just like this, for free - but by accepting the gift, you promise to keep and use it.

carlk wrote:
Get lost troll. I'm asking op an honest question.

Peter 13 wrote:

carlk wrote:

Would you say you'd choose the D800 if someone gives you a few thousand extra dollars to buy a couple good Nikon lenses?

Yes. And then I will sell all the Nikon stuff and get the 85L and the 50L.

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Daniel Clune
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Re: d800 has 28% more motion blur-- LOL
In reply to chironNYC, Apr 30, 2012

Well it must be impossible to get a sharp shot with my 7D then because it has even more motion blur with smaller pixels. Oh darn I do have sharp shots. Its a miracle. Call the news.

chironNYC wrote:

I think the answer is that the d800 will give you 28% (the percentage of its greater linear resolution compared to the 5d3) more motion blur from either hand held movement or from movement by the subject or from a combination of both. The 5d3 and the d800 won't be the same on this--the greater resolution of the d800 also resolves the movement and turns it into blur. You can't have one without the other. There are no free lunches in physics.

In many ways, the d800 has the strengths of a medium format or view camera and the 5d3 remains within the 35mm tradition. Most of the Nikon reviews have pointed out the need for higher shutter speeds or a tripod with thed800, and even Michael Reichmann, who has always been a fan of Nikon and given short shrift to Canon, recommends using twice the usual shutter speeds with the d800 to get the quality that the camera potentially offers. In line with the d800's medium format, view camera qualities, Reichmann also suggests using a focusing loupe on the liveview lcd of the Nikon d800 in order to best get what the camera offers at its maximum performance, just as with the ground glass of a view camera. I guess with the d800, you might also need to throw a black cloth over your head if you are outside on a bright day so that you can use the loupe.

The d800 will have an advantage in resolution when it is used on a tripod with best possible lens at best possible aperture and with either mirror lock up or high shutter speed. This makes it a great camera for landscapers who use tripods, macro, and brightly lit studio, especially studio still life, like jewelry or watches.

But for event and people shooting, the 5d3 will offer many advantages.

If you are talking about shooting weddings, there is really no question about the right choice.

Jeff Palmucci wrote:

Its only 28% more linear resolution. If you need a tripod to get a shot with the D800, you'll also need it to get the shot with the 5D3, and vice versa.

Furthermore, the extra resolution could never hurt you. If you smear an image on the 5D3, you'd smear it exactly the same way on the D800. It would just be spread over more pixels

Rumi Siddiqui wrote:

Can you address the Myth of handheld shooting with the D800? Is it in fact more tripod dependent over the 5D3? I've never had an issue with the 5DII so I don't anticipate any issues with the 5DIII, but 36MP sensor of the D800 makes me nervous. I've read posts and articles on this, and ultimately I cancelled the D800 and renewed my 5DIII preorder.

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Peter

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Peter 13
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to carlk, Apr 30, 2012

carlk wrote:

The question is about what is op's thinking if the extra cost for new lenses is not an object.

If extra cost for new lenses is not an object, I would buy the D800 and whatever FF body Sony offers (for the IBIS). But lenses cost a lot, so that question was, well, ..., I will not finish this sentence.

Now, if you meant to ask (but you did not) what would you do if somebody offered to buy all your Canon lenses at their street value (new), that would have been a meaningful question, and I would have answered it differently.

I know you're just trying to make some fun but did you see what your post have done? It opens door for that bum to hyjack the sub-thread which ended up going nowhere.

Only because you decided to be rude. My answer to your question was my way of saying that the question did not make sense.

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carlk
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to Peter 13, Apr 30, 2012

Peter 13 wrote:

carlk wrote:

The question is about what is op's thinking if the extra cost for new lenses is not an object.

If extra cost for new lenses is not an object, I would buy the D800 and whatever FF body Sony offers (for the IBIS). But lenses cost a lot, so that question was, well, ..., I will not finish this sentence.

Now, if you meant to ask (but you did not) what would you do if somebody offered to buy all your Canon lenses at their street value (new), that would have been a meaningful question, and I would have answered it differently.

I know you're just trying to make some fun but did you see what your post have done? It opens door for that bum to hyjack the sub-thread which ended up going nowhere.

Only because you decided to be rude. My answer to your question was my way of saying that the question did not make sense.

Sorry about it I was rude because you misintepreted my question. That's my way of saying what he'd do if the extra cost of lenese is not an object. That was an honest question because I'm willing to spend extra for a couple of Nikon lenses to go dual brand.

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abi170845
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to Jeff Palmucci, Apr 30, 2012

Excellent! Why can't others do the same, go out and rent lens dslr etc to compare themselves rather than asking pointless questions and rhetorics.

I will be renting the 5dmk2 5dmk3 d800 1dmkIV and compare them see if the cost justifies my needs.

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ak1999
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Re: d800 has 28% more resolution-agree!
In reply to scott_mcleod, Apr 30, 2012

scott_mcleod wrote:

Yes, but it has many more pixels on each axis. Thom Hogan explains the consequences very succinctly here:

What difference does it makes?
You can shoot it APS crop mode and get less pixels on each axis.

Are you saying that D800 in crop mode is more prone to motion blur than a D7000 or 7D?

Full-frame mode on D800 just covers a larger area and should not be prone to more motion blur.

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Jasper in SF
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to carlk, Apr 30, 2012

A little bit of kettle calling pot black, even if question is honest.

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benjaminblack
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to Jeff Palmucci, Apr 30, 2012

I'm a 5DII shooter and I rented a D800 and an 85 1.4G from LensRentals so I could see if the increase in resolution on the D800 really made a difference in fine details. The answer is yes. If you shoot a lot of portraits you'll notice astonishing details in the eyes, eye lashes, hair, garments, jewelry, etc. And I do mean astonishing. There are many things that impressed me about the D800, but again, I'm coming from the 5DII.

The AWB indoors was much better than my 5DII. Not that it matters much since WB is easy to adjust manually, or later in post.

The focus was deadly accurate, left, right, and center, whether at f1.4 or f5.6. The 85 1.4G focused instantly compared to my 85 1.2LII. The OOF areas were more pronounced than I'm accustomed. My wife commented that the blur reminded her of a tilt-shift. Not literally of course, but if you like thin DOF the D800 is very nice.

Had no problem shooting hand-held at 1/60 even at f1.4. But the key is to switch to AF-C if you're subject is moving at all. With Canon I can shoot dancing in One-Shot, but I found AF-S to be unreliable wide open with moving subjects. AF-C however was extremely accurate. But we all know the 5DIII is wonderfully accurate as well.

Face detection through the viewfinder is available in AF-C Auto and works nicely. However, I never tried it wide open and I don't know how it performs in crowds. I danced around and face detection followed me perfectly, but the test I did was at f5.6 and I was about eight feet away from the camera and the only person in the room.

I much prefer the placement of the AF-Drive button and the ISO button on the 5DII. Auto-review is also much better on Canon, unless I'm missing something, but the Auto-Review on the D800 was annoying - if you're shooting while Auto-Review occurs and you try to move your focus point the camera thinks you're checking out the image, so instead of moving the AF point, it displays info about the shot. But this has to be an easy change, even though I couldn't find it.

Loved the AF assist lamp on the body. Loved the grip. Loved the sound of the shutter, but be warned, the quiet shutter is not quiet at all, haha.

Anyway, before I ramble on too much, the D800 would satisfy any 5DIII shooter IMO and even impress a 5DIII shooter in the area of fine details. However, if cropping is not a concern, you don't sell a lot of large prints/canvases, or you don't focus on portrait work, the D800 may not be your cup of tea. But no matter how you look at it, the D800 is an achievement - you get incredible detail at an extremely high resolution and exceptional DR without sacrificing ISO or focus accuracy. And frankly, 4FPS is impressive at 36MP. If you don't think the D800 can shoot fast, check out this thread: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1108889

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KLO82
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to bobn2, Apr 30, 2012

bobn2 wrote:

Not really. With the Nikon, you can use auto ISO in a 'set and forget' which covers for most of what you want to do, which will seamlessly adjust between the three different exposure management situations that one usually finds oneself in.

My take on exposure control is that I want the largest exposure I have subject to my requirements for motion blur (sets the shutter speed) and DOF. In practice that means set the shutter to the lowest that the motion blur allows and set the f-number to DOF. Once I've done that, I don't want to bother about the ISO. So M and auto ISO does that for me. But now, if I move to brighter light, then I will actually need to reduce the exposure (usually by increasing the shutter speed). So, using A mode with auto ISO and setting the minimum shutter speed to the speed I actually want does that for me. If there is not enough light to get the shutter speed at base ISO, the camera will move the ISO up, if there is too much light it will increase the shutter speed. Finally, if the camera has a point where the read noise flattens out, I don't want to set the ISO higher than that (I just lose highlight headroom) so I can set the highest ISO to that (about 800 on a D800). Now, generally my desired shutter speed is FL dependent, and now Nikon allows me to set that, and choose the multipler - whereas with Canon you have one multiplier. Finally, there is one more tweak which would be really useful on a 5DIII, but is ironically pointless on a D800, which is that EC works in auto ISO mode, so if I want to bias the ISO choice for ETTR type reasons (trading highlight headroom for read noise) then I can do that too.

I can't set a Canon up like that, because the fastest shutter speed I can use is 1/250.

My thinking is, if I can actually program the camera to take the exposure decisions that I would make, then I will miss fewer shots, and be able to concentrate on the other things, like framing and selecting and controlling the DOF .
--
Bob

This is exactly my thought. Though unlike you, I would not set the maximum ISO as 800 as seeing the closest to output pic on LCD is very important for me.

As you are a D800 owner, can you tell me one thing - in 5:4 mode (and other crop modes), we can shoot in raw? Right?

Edit: I think face detection AF is also very helpful for putting full concentration on framing and other artistic aspects.

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bobn2
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Re: 5D3 owner rents a D800
In reply to KLO82, Apr 30, 2012

KLO82 wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

Not really. With the Nikon, you can use auto ISO in a 'set and forget' which covers for most of what you want to do, which will seamlessly adjust between the three different exposure management situations that one usually finds oneself in.

My take on exposure control is that I want the largest exposure I have subject to my requirements for motion blur (sets the shutter speed) and DOF. In practice that means set the shutter to the lowest that the motion blur allows and set the f-number to DOF. Once I've done that, I don't want to bother about the ISO. So M and auto ISO does that for me. But now, if I move to brighter light, then I will actually need to reduce the exposure (usually by increasing the shutter speed). So, using A mode with auto ISO and setting the minimum shutter speed to the speed I actually want does that for me. If there is not enough light to get the shutter speed at base ISO, the camera will move the ISO up, if there is too much light it will increase the shutter speed. Finally, if the camera has a point where the read noise flattens out, I don't want to set the ISO higher than that (I just lose highlight headroom) so I can set the highest ISO to that (about 800 on a D800). Now, generally my desired shutter speed is FL dependent, and now Nikon allows me to set that, and choose the multipler - whereas with Canon you have one multiplier. Finally, there is one more tweak which would be really useful on a 5DIII, but is ironically pointless on a D800, which is that EC works in auto ISO mode, so if I want to bias the ISO choice for ETTR type reasons (trading highlight headroom for read noise) then I can do that too.

I can't set a Canon up like that, because the fastest shutter speed I can use is 1/250.

My thinking is, if I can actually program the camera to take the exposure decisions that I would make, then I will miss fewer shots, and be able to concentrate on the other things, like framing and selecting and controlling the DOF .
--
Bob

This is exactly my thought. Though unlike you, I would not set the maximum ISO as 800 as seeing the closest to output pic on LCD is very important for me.

As you are a D800 owner, can you tell me one thing - in 5:4 mode (and other crop modes), we can shoot in raw? Right?

I'm not yet a D800 owner. But yes, all mode shoot raw. There are also three types of raw at each crop, uncompressed, losslessly compressed and lossy compressed.

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