Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)

Started Apr 26, 2012 | Discussions
NeroMetalliko
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Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
Apr 26, 2012

Hello,

I'm relatively new to challenges, I do it for fun and I will not take this stuff too much seriously but nevertheless I put a degree of efforts in it, and I like to understand how the whole thing can help me to improve my skills and/or knowledge.

I have to say that I am overall satisfied with my placements, honestly I was a litlle bit upset regarding my 19th place in the "Street lighting design" challenge, something that looking at the higher ranked images I'm still no able to really understand.

Today I got a 2nd place in the "Pattern" challenge (my best result so far), my entry is not perfect from a technical point of view, it was impossible to take the shot with a tripod, I was forced to raise up the iso in an awkward hand position, but I think that it reasonably fit the theme without being too much a sterile exercise and still remaining a pleasant photo to look at, with maybe some degree of mood inside...

If asked for a vote on my own entry I will rate it in the range of 3,5 - 4 stars (but I never vote in challenges I partecipate).

If asked for a vote regarding the winner entry, my rating will be similar: I really liked the concept and composition of the image but there is a lot of CA in the top right quadrant that prevent me to understand the 5 star ratings it collected (and I wonder why someone rated it 0.5 too).

I don't know, maybe only slightly, but I still think that my entry is able to "tell" something more and is less technically imperfect, so now it's up to you: any comment and/or suggestion is welcome and will help me to improve and better figure out the things.

Many thanks in advance for your attention,
ciao,

Andrea

Mike Ronesia
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

Whenever you reference a challenge it's a good idea to add a link to it. http://www.dpreview.com/challenges/Entry.aspx?ID=608221&View=Results&Rows=4

That said I like your photo but I like the winner better. I think if you had moved out a little so you captured more of the swirled end and had a deeper depth of field it would have made me give it a higher score. With the challenge being patterns I tend to look for those and most of your shot out of focus.

You have the right attitude in regards to challenges though and I think the same way. Keep entering and learning and have fun.

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NeroMetalliko
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to Mike Ronesia, Apr 26, 2012

Hello Mike,
thanks for your comment,

sorry, you are right, I forgot to add the direct links and it seems to me that now I'm not able to edit my own post to add it (why?).

I understand what you are meaning, believe me, I spent a lot of time on this one but it was impossible to thake that shot in any different position and/or focal length without loosing the correct alignment of the pattern and/or put off something and/or put in something disturbing, due to all the objects/furnitures present in the church preventing me to freely move. The wide aperture (and related DOF) was needed because of the low light condition and the impossibility (really no space) to use any kind of tripod in that cumbersome position.

So, yes, I faced some limits that I cannot avoid and probably this did not helped. I still think the winner is a good image as concept, but not so perfectly realized for the high CA, the "nervous" look, slightly oversaturated colors and too much vertical crop cut (in my humble opinion of course...). In any case I make the congratulation to the winner for their idea of the shot.

I will try again in future other challenges, but if I don't have a potential winner I will not put an entry and this is not so easy to do for me (I try to be always analytical with myself...)

Ciao,
Andrea

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RaptorUK
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

I don't think you entry shows a pattern . . . neither do many of the other entries. I think it shows a row of similar objects . . .

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NeroMetalliko
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to RaptorUK, Apr 26, 2012

Hello,
I'm not a english mother language guy but I looked here:

"
PATTERN

Concise Oxford English Dictionary © 2008 Oxford University Press:
pattern/ˈpatn/

▶noun
1 a repeated decorative design.

  • an arrangement or sequence regularly found in comparable objects or events.

"

So, please can you better articulate what is your exact meaning for "pattern"?
Thanks,
ciao,

Andrea

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Mike Ronesia
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

NeroMetalliko wrote:

Hello Mike,
thanks for your comment,

sorry, you are right, I forgot to add the direct links and it seems to me that now I'm not able to edit my own post to add it (why?).

I think you only have 30 minutes to edit a post and you can only edit it one time.

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RaptorUK
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

NeroMetalliko wrote:

Hello,

So, please can you better articulate what is your exact meaning for "pattern"?
Thanks,
ciao,

Andrea

I see a pattern more of a repeating feature in 2 dimensions, a repeating feature in one dimension would be better described as a series perhaps.

I'm not saying your entry is wrong, after all the description asked for you to show what you think shows a pattern . . . it's just not what I think shows a pattern.

IMO the entries in 4th, 8th & 9th are some good examples of what I think of as patterns. Perhaps what I am thinking of is a regular pattern ?

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Slynky
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to RaptorUK, Apr 26, 2012

I think it might be something difficult to articulate.

As a concept, I imagine people have their own ideas about what "pattern" means in photography.

Here is a site that seems to say what Raptor is saying (but for me, I would not be so strict on what is and isn't a pattern or repetition in photography):

http://digital-photography-school.com/using-repetition-and-patterns-in-photography

RaptorUK wrote:

NeroMetalliko wrote:

Hello,

So, please can you better articulate what is your exact meaning for "pattern"?
Thanks,
ciao,

Andrea

I see a pattern more of a repeating feature in 2 dimensions, a repeating feature in one dimension would be better described as a series perhaps.

I'm not saying your entry is wrong, after all the description asked for you to show what you think shows a pattern . . . it's just not what I think shows a pattern.

IMO the entries in 4th, 8th & 9th are some good examples of what I think of as patterns. Perhaps what I am thinking of is a regular pattern ?

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Deleted pending purge
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to RaptorUK, Apr 26, 2012

IMO, a pattern would be in anything with recognizable ordering system, but I may be wrong in that. For instance, a maze: it may not consist strictly of the same one form repeating over and over, but a system will be recognizable right away...

@NeroMetallico... your entries are good work. Sometimes (when you go out and take a picture for a specific purpose like a Challenge), you'll be able to precisely follow the set of instructions or suggestions pertinent to that purpose. In other cases, an entry will most often be an adaptation of some previously shot scene, in order to fit it to the subsequent aims... In both cases, however, the voting public will have widely varied opinions...

It has been discussed over and over here and elsewhere. There is a strong element of a lottery involved in any among the DPR Challenges. It is, of course, dependent upon too many unknowns to mention, since every vote has been backed by unforeseeable photographic knowlege, experience, personal factors and, of course, percentage of fairness or a lack thereof. In other words, there is no "pattern" which could be expected from, say, a board of experts. While most of the winners deservedly get to the top, sometimes the results can be quite surprising. So it is a good attitude to have fun, rather than drawing overly precise conclusions from the final top-lists.
Cheers!
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Slynky
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In reply to Deleted pending purge, Apr 26, 2012

You just couldn't resist the "pun temptation", could you ? LOL

OldArrow wrote:

IMO, a pattern would be in anything with recognizable ordering system, but I may be wrong in that. For instance, a maze: it may not consist strictly of the same one form repeating over and over, but a system will be recognizable right away...

@NeroMetallico... your entries are good work. Sometimes (when you go out and take a picture for a specific purpose like a Challenge), you'll be able to precisely follow the set of instructions or suggestions pertinent to that purpose. In other cases, an entry will most often be an adaptation of some previously shot scene, in order to fit it to the subsequent aims... In both cases, however, the voting public will have widely varied opinions...

It has been discussed over and over here and elsewhere. There is a strong element of a lottery involved in any among the DPR Challenges. It is, of course, dependent upon too many unknowns to mention, since every vote has been backed by unforeseeable photographic knowlege, experience, personal factors and, of course, percentage of fairness or a lack thereof. In other words, there is no "pattern" which could be expected from, say, a board of experts . While most of the winners deservedly get to the top, sometimes the results can be quite surprising. So it is a good attitude to have fun, rather than drawing overly precise conclusions from the final top-lists.
Cheers!
--
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NeroMetalliko
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to Slynky, Apr 26, 2012

Ok, thanks,

now I understand that probably your view of a pattern is more focused than mine. Unlucky zooming more on my entry was not possible without copromising the whole shot, so this is not something I have missed, simply I still thought that, under my parameters, it was "enough pattern" to fit the theme...
When judging a photo I mainly consider three aspects:

  • how much pleasant is the shot (including esthetic AND emotional contents)

  • presence of reasonably noticeable technical flaws that can weaken the ìmage (composition, crop, exposure, focus, colors, chromatic aberration, distortions, perspective, noise, etc etc...)

  • in theme (for challenges)

Now, even thinking with a more strict "pattern" definition as you pointed out, in this case I don't see the first classified to be much more in theme than mine, we can consider both nearly on par from this point of view.

The "how much pleasant" aspect is highly subjective, so I can still say that, in my opininon, my entry is more overall pleasant/inspiring and story-telling, but someone else could easily prefer a colorful sharp picture of course, and that it's right for me.

My point is that none of the pictures in the challenge (mine included) are eligible of a 5 stars rating: in order to get 5 stars a image should be a masterpiece that you will hang on the wall, obviously well in theme, AND without noticeable technical flaws.

In my opininon the winner shot is not a masterpiece (neither is mine shot obviously), both could be considered at least reasonably in theme, but the winner shot has a lot of chromatic aberration in the top right quadrant to say, at least.

All these aspects considered together are making me wonder how there were three 5 stars votes given to it (and probably deciding the final win results).

I think that in this challenge we are in the 3-4 stars max range (that is the average value of the majority of votes I got), so seeing three 5 stars on the winner shot makes me shake my head, and there is not much that I can learn form it...

Any further comment is still welcome, maybe I'm missing something
Ciao,
Andrea

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NeroMetalliko
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to Mike Ronesia, Apr 26, 2012

Thanks, I didn't know...

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Slynky
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In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

Just to make sure there is no confusion...since you replied to me (I think)...I am not more focused on my view of pattern than you. I think yours is just fine. Personally, I don't care too much about the specifics of something is a pattern or something is repetition. For example, in order to have a pattern, one usually needs repetition.

NeroMetalliko wrote:

Ok, thanks,

now I understand that probably your view of a pattern is more focused than mine . Unlucky zooming more on my entry was not possible without copromising the whole shot, so this is not something I have missed, simply I still thought that, under my parameters, it was "enough pattern" to fit the theme...
When judging a photo I mainly consider three aspects:

  • how much pleasant is the shot (including esthetic AND emotional contents)

  • presence of reasonably noticeable technical flaws that can weaken the ìmage (composition, crop, exposure, focus, colors, chromatic aberration, distortions, perspective, noise, etc etc...)

  • in theme (for challenges)

Now, even thinking with a more strict "pattern" definition as you pointed out, in this case I don't see the first classified to be much more in theme than mine, we can consider both nearly on par from this point of view.

The "how much pleasant" aspect is highly subjective, so I can still say that, in my opininon, my entry is more overall pleasant/inspiring and story-telling, but someone else could easily prefer a colorful sharp picture of course, and that it's right for me.

My point is that none of the pictures in the challenge (mine included) are eligible of a 5 stars rating: in order to get 5 stars a image should be a masterpiece that you will hang on the wall, obviously well in theme, AND without noticeable technical flaws.

In my opininon the winner shot is not a masterpiece (neither is mine shot obviously), both could be considered at least reasonably in theme, but the winner shot has a lot of chromatic aberration in the top right quadrant to say, at least.

All these aspects considered together are making me wonder how there were three 5 stars votes given to it (and probably deciding the final win results).

I think that in this challenge we are in the 3-4 stars max range (that is the average value of the majority of votes I got), so seeing three 5 stars on the winner shot makes me shake my head, and there is not much that I can learn form it...

Any further comment is still welcome, maybe I'm missing something
Ciao,
Andrea

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NeroMetalliko
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to Slynky, Apr 26, 2012

Hello,
sorry for the confusion (I am a slow writer):
regarding the pattern definition it was a reply mainly for RaptorUK.

But regarding all the further considerations about the 5 stars it was a additional post for everyone

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RuthC
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

I'm interested in what you have had to say about this 'Pattern' Challenge, and I can honestly say that I was delighted and very surprised that my entry, (taken with my trusty P&S Canon) got top marks. Yes, I know that the shot was not perfect, but it was the best I could do, with my limited equipment and ability.

I DON'T have a Facebook profile, nor do I solicit votes, so I too was surprised that three voters gave me scores of 5. Perhaps they just liked the shot!

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NeroMetalliko
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Re: Ok, I'm happy, but let me know your opinion... :)
In reply to RuthC, Apr 26, 2012

Hello,
many thanks for joining the discussion and adding your comment.

You are right, the straight truth is that the voters have really liked your shot!

As I have already told you, with some caveats, I have liked it too, and, believe it or not, at the end of the submitting phase I thought that it would be one of the main contenders. I was right too!

I'm certainly not here to say that you could have solicited the voters in some way, in fact you still got a really not understandable 0.5 star too (and I got a not understandable 5 star too, if I'm not wrong). As you aknowledged the shot was not perfect and it was a pleasant surprise for you.

So, I'm more here to understand if I could learn and/or I missed something...
In addition I'm obviously blue colored of envy!

Congratulation for the win.
Ciao,
Andrea

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In reply to Slynky, Apr 26, 2012

Slynky wrote:

You just couldn't resist the "pun temptation", could you ? LOL

Guilty as charged...

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happy snapper uk
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In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

NeroMetalliko wrote:

Ok, thanks,

now I understand that probably your view of a pattern is more focused than mine. Unlucky zooming more on my entry was not possible without copromising the whole shot, so this is not something I have missed, simply I still thought that, under my parameters, it was "enough pattern" to fit the theme...
When judging a photo I mainly consider three aspects:

  • how much pleasant is the shot (including esthetic AND emotional contents)

  • presence of reasonably noticeable technical flaws that can weaken the ìmage (composition, crop, exposure, focus, colors, chromatic aberration, distortions, perspective, noise, etc etc...)

  • in theme (for challenges)

Now, even thinking with a more strict "pattern" definition as you pointed out, in this case I don't see the first classified to be much more in theme than mine, we can consider both nearly on par from this point of view.

The "how much pleasant" aspect is highly subjective, so I can still say that, in my opininon, my entry is more overall pleasant/inspiring and story-telling, but someone else could easily prefer a colorful sharp picture of course, and that it's right for me.

My point is that none of the pictures in the challenge (mine included) are eligible of a 5 stars rating: in order to get 5 stars a image should be a masterpiece that you will hang on the wall, obviously well in theme, AND without noticeable technical flaws.

In my opininon the winner shot is not a masterpiece (neither is mine shot obviously), both could be considered at least reasonably in theme, but the winner shot has a lot of chromatic aberration in the top right quadrant to say, at least.

All these aspects considered together are making me wonder how there were three 5 stars votes given to it (and probably deciding the final win results).

I think that in this challenge we are in the 3-4 stars max range (that is the average value of the majority of votes I got), so seeing three 5 stars on the winner shot makes me shake my head, and there is not much that I can learn form it...

Any further comment is still welcome, maybe I'm missing something
Ciao,
Andrea

I hate these posts that say ...my shot is better than another..It just causes bad feelings..Ask for comments on your own shots..That's fine but to have a dig at someone else's work is a bit off..

happy snapping

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happy snapper uk
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In reply to RuthC, Apr 26, 2012

RuthC wrote:

I'm interested in what you have had to say about this 'Pattern' Challenge, and I can honestly say that I was delighted and very surprised that my entry, (taken with my trusty P&S Canon) got top marks. Yes, I know that the shot was not perfect, but it was the best I could do, with my limited equipment and ability.

I DON'T have a Facebook profile, nor do I solicit votes, so I too was surprised that three voters gave me scores of 5. Perhaps they just liked the shot!

Take no notice ...Just sour grapes...Your shot was better

happy snapping

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In reply to NeroMetalliko, Apr 26, 2012

NeroMetalliko wrote:

...

I'm certainly not here to say that you could have solicited the voters in some way, in fact you still got a really not understandable 0.5 star too (and I got a not understandable 5 star too, if I'm not wrong). As you aknowledged the shot was not perfect and it was a pleasant surprise for you.

...

Although there is one single voting system, never forget that everyone is casting their own stars - I will award "mine", you'll give "yours"... and each and every star has its own weight, color and glow.

An expert considering all the elements you mentioned above will assign different value to their 5-star vote from someone who has got their first camera for birthday last year.

Exactly who stands behind their decisions, reasoning, expectations or attitudes or anything that influences the vote values cast, that's a great wide Unknown.
That's why I mentioned the lottery effect earlier.
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