5DIII AF - Amazing

Started Apr 26, 2012 | Discussions
MikeFromMesa
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Re: Interesting
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 26, 2012

The 7D, of course, has considerably newer AF technology than the 1DsIII; so it is interesting that the 5DIII seems to you to also provide a significant upgrade.

I did not mention it in my previous post (because it did not seem particularly apropos) but the 5D3 will focus consistently with my Canon 100-400/Kenko 1.4 TC combination while the 7D would not. That really surprised me.

It is not that I expect to use that combination as I am not convinced that the IQ from using the TC will be better than resizing the image without the TC, but I am very surprised that the lens/TC combo will focus at all since the effective aperture is smaller than should allow focusing.

I tried this combo while testing both the 5D2 and 5D3 thinking that perhaps the full size sensor might be a little bit more effective in finding focus, but did not expect such a huge difference. The 7D with that combo only focused about 10-15% of the time and then only after a long time of seeking. The 5D3 (and the 5D2 at the photo shop) focused every time in both bright and dim light and without any tiresome seeking. It locked on as quickly and accurately as though the TC was not attached. I found that very surprising and it was one of the factors that convinced me to buy the 5D3 instead of waiting for the 7D2 (if such a thing every arrives).

I do miss some of the reach of the 7D but my images have many more keepers than before and I have fewer of those "if only it was a little more in focus" than I used to get with the 7D. And, of course, the larger image size does allow me a little more leeway when I crop.

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SDRebel
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What is the change in IQ
In reply to spiderhunter, Apr 26, 2012

I have found that I like the IQ of the 5DIII better than what I experienced with my 1DsIII - it could, of course, just be a placebo effect.

I am particularly seeing better reds, e.g., detail in red flowers that were missing previously due, I believe, to reds overwhelming the previous sensor.

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jdavis37
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Re: 5DIII AF - Amazing
In reply to garyknrd, Apr 26, 2012

Am going through similar evaluation now. I like my 7D "overall" but above ISO400 I start to lose confidence that noise won't turn feathers to mush. I can get decent shots as high as ISO1600 but any shadows there and smudge.

I am renting a 5D3 to try it for myself rather than interpolating data here, however helpful it may be. Ultimately, it comes down to what works for us individually that counts. I was closet o renting a D800 but price for camera, 200-400, etc was getting up there. I figured I would try 5D3 first to see how it fit.

Changing systems is not something anyone wants to do every 3 or 4 years of course and sometimes grass is not as green as it first looked. D800 brings with it, for me, a NEED to have a second body for frame rate, either a $6K D4 or whatever the D400 will be. A 5d3, if it works, and i'll keep my 7D as a backup and for added reach if needed. Frame rate on 5D3 is minimally fine for me. Am hoping 7D2 actually does something better PQ wise versus just packing in more MP. Obviously I may stlil switch if that proves the right answer.. nikon big lass is now cheaper than Canon big glass but the new Canon glass is sharp and light. Thought of an 8.5 pound 400 F2.8 or 600 F4 (aside form the price) is nice. You can fly with a 5D3, 400F2.8 + 600F4 but will be close to weight restrictions in Nikon world at present time.

I ama ctually looking forward to my week with 5D3. Forums often get us worked up and we can fail to see what is for sake of what maybe isn't.If the 5D3 is not for me for whatever reason at least I gave it a chance and then will know I'll need to evaluate other cameras.

garyknrd wrote:

My 7D can do that pretty easy. No offence. As a birder and not wanting to spend 20K on new lenses and T.C. It is hard to swallow the 5D111. I am buying another 7D for a spare. For me it is just a good FF camera not a birding camera for me.

Not that Canon cares but if they do not bring out a good 7D replacement when Nikon announces there crop sensor replacement. I may be looking to change. A pretty hard pill for me to swallow considering the cost of lenses...

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SDRebel
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Please let us know your results
In reply to jdavis37, Apr 26, 2012

Your points are well taken. I have a trip coming up where I'm driving so that weight restrictions aren't a problem. However, in the past, like you, weight has been a severe restriction on the equipment I can take with me.

Of course, at a price and with proper cases, one could check the equipment. But I don't have the cases and so have to carry all mine.

I look forward to hearing the results of your testing.

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SDRebel
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TC for 5DIII
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 26, 2012

I had the two Canon TCs, but sold them several years back.

I understand the new 1.4 III(?) is an improvement. Do you know how the Kenko compares?

I'm tempted but in truth I don't do that much bird photography and probably wouldn't use it for what I do more ofen do.

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carlk
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Re: 5DIII AF - Amazing
In reply to jdavis37, Apr 26, 2012

Even D800 can't match 7D's reach not to mention you lose fps. Same for 5DIII. Crop camera or 7D is still the way to go when you're reach limited and will need to crop anyway.

What I'll do is to keep 7D for birding and buy D800 and Nikon WA lens for landscape then I'll be more flexible when next generations are out.

jdavis37 wrote:

Am going through similar evaluation now. I like my 7D "overall" but above ISO400 I start to lose confidence that noise won't turn feathers to mush. I can get decent shots as high as ISO1600 but any shadows there and smudge.

I am renting a 5D3 to try it for myself rather than interpolating data here, however helpful it may be. Ultimately, it comes down to what works for us individually that counts. I was closet o renting a D800 but price for camera, 200-400, etc was getting up there. I figured I would try 5D3 first to see how it fit.

Changing systems is not something anyone wants to do every 3 or 4 years of course and sometimes grass is not as green as it first looked. D800 brings with it, for me, a NEED to have a second body for frame rate, either a $6K D4 or whatever the D400 will be. A 5d3, if it works, and i'll keep my 7D as a backup and for added reach if needed. Frame rate on 5D3 is minimally fine for me. Am hoping 7D2 actually does something better PQ wise versus just packing in more MP. Obviously I may stlil switch if that proves the right answer.. nikon big lass is now cheaper than Canon big glass but the new Canon glass is sharp and light. Thought of an 8.5 pound 400 F2.8 or 600 F4 (aside form the price) is nice. You can fly with a 5D3, 400F2.8 + 600F4 but will be close to weight restrictions in Nikon world at present time.

I ama ctually looking forward to my week with 5D3. Forums often get us worked up and we can fail to see what is for sake of what maybe isn't.If the 5D3 is not for me for whatever reason at least I gave it a chance and then will know I'll need to evaluate other cameras.

garyknrd wrote:

My 7D can do that pretty easy. No offence. As a birder and not wanting to spend 20K on new lenses and T.C. It is hard to swallow the 5D111. I am buying another 7D for a spare. For me it is just a good FF camera not a birding camera for me.

Not that Canon cares but if they do not bring out a good 7D replacement when Nikon announces there crop sensor replacement. I may be looking to change. A pretty hard pill for me to swallow considering the cost of lenses...

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: TC for 5DIII
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 26, 2012

I understand the new 1.4 III(?) is an improvement. Do you know how the Kenko compares?

I do not. The Kenko 1.4 TC would not focus with any long lens I had with the 7D unless I used Live View and, since I normally take photos hand-held, that meant that I did not use it.

Since it did not work with my 7D I never thought about spending the money for the Canon TC and hence I cannot compare them. Sorry.

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Daniel Clune
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spot focus?
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 26, 2012

7D has spot focus were it reduces size of focus point just for things like that. Iam assuming the 5D3 also has this focus feature and did you use it? The mark 2 1 series bodies were also good at this but MK3 were not as focus points were much larger on mk3 bodies hence you saying you couldn't have done this with 1dsmk3. Plus the mk3 bodies never focused well. I had one for a week. Bigger focus points bad sub-mirror design.
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SDRebel
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Spot focus
In reply to Daniel Clune, Apr 26, 2012

That is exactly what I used. Of course, trying to handhold the 5DIII with the 100-400, it was hard for me to keep it steady. No doubt the stabilization helped, but what amazed me was how well the spot focus ignored everything other cluttering the space around the bird.

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MikeFromMesa
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Re: 5DIII AF - Amazing
In reply to jdavis37, Apr 26, 2012

I also would like you to post your testing results.

I already have my 5D3 but would be curious to know your results. Especially since you clearly have some very nice glass that I don't have. Your results may very well be germane to me as well.

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Daniel Clune
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Re: Spot focus
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 26, 2012

Yes it works well on 7D model too. much better than 1dsmk3 large focus points. Happy shooting.

SDRebel wrote:

That is exactly what I used. Of course, trying to handhold the 5DIII with the 100-400, it was hard for me to keep it steady. No doubt the stabilization helped, but what amazed me was how well the spot focus ignored everything other cluttering the space around the bird.

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jdavis37
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Re: Please let us know your results
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 26, 2012

Wil be glad to. I would check my first born before my camera gear but then he is 16 now so not so much a good argument! Am looking forward to seeing how much I like it. After seeing so much negative press about 5D3 I met back up with a friend whom I trust who has one and loves his and now am encouraged to see what it is versus what it is not Perhaps I walk away unsatisfied but until I try I wont know!

SDRebel wrote:

Your points are well taken. I have a trip coming up where I'm driving so that weight restrictions aren't a problem. However, in the past, like you, weight has been a severe restriction on the equipment I can take with me.

Of course, at a price and with proper cases, one could check the equipment. But I don't have the cases and so have to carry all mine.

I look forward to hearing the results of your testing.

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jdavis37
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Re: 5DIII AF - Amazing
In reply to carlk, Apr 26, 2012

Dual system is certainly one solution and absolutely nothing wrong with doing that. I have enough trouble wanting dual camera bodies though! Some of the crop reach comes with a price though and some of the rest is very real nearly free lunch stuff. 5D3 will be interesting to see if my math calculations about glass needed will prove true or not and how it goes. I have no biased opinion how how it will go and wont know until I try. A crop sensor is more affordable all the way around including glass. Is interesting though how a few months ago the 24MP D3X seemed good enough pixel wise!

I think D800 will be great for many people but am guessing so will 5D3.. perhaps different tools for different reasons. I think though a 500F4 + TC will be more than long enough for what I typically shoot and keeping a 7D in the backup role won't hurt. Same would be true of D4 + D400(if released) or even D800 _ D400 for frame rate if needed. Lots of ways to skin things

carlk wrote:

Even D800 can't match 7D's reach not to mention you lose fps. Same for 5DIII. Crop camera or 7D is still the way to go when you're reach limited and will need to crop anyway.

What I'll do is to keep 7D for birding and buy D800 and Nikon WA lens for landscape then I'll be more flexible when next generations are out.

jdavis37 wrote:

Am going through similar evaluation now. I like my 7D "overall" but above ISO400 I start to lose confidence that noise won't turn feathers to mush. I can get decent shots as high as ISO1600 but any shadows there and smudge.

I am renting a 5D3 to try it for myself rather than interpolating data here, however helpful it may be. Ultimately, it comes down to what works for us individually that counts. I was closet o renting a D800 but price for camera, 200-400, etc was getting up there. I figured I would try 5D3 first to see how it fit.

Changing systems is not something anyone wants to do every 3 or 4 years of course and sometimes grass is not as green as it first looked. D800 brings with it, for me, a NEED to have a second body for frame rate, either a $6K D4 or whatever the D400 will be. A 5d3, if it works, and i'll keep my 7D as a backup and for added reach if needed. Frame rate on 5D3 is minimally fine for me. Am hoping 7D2 actually does something better PQ wise versus just packing in more MP. Obviously I may stlil switch if that proves the right answer.. nikon big lass is now cheaper than Canon big glass but the new Canon glass is sharp and light. Thought of an 8.5 pound 400 F2.8 or 600 F4 (aside form the price) is nice. You can fly with a 5D3, 400F2.8 + 600F4 but will be close to weight restrictions in Nikon world at present time.

I ama ctually looking forward to my week with 5D3. Forums often get us worked up and we can fail to see what is for sake of what maybe isn't.If the 5D3 is not for me for whatever reason at least I gave it a chance and then will know I'll need to evaluate other cameras.

garyknrd wrote:

My 7D can do that pretty easy. No offence. As a birder and not wanting to spend 20K on new lenses and T.C. It is hard to swallow the 5D111. I am buying another 7D for a spare. For me it is just a good FF camera not a birding camera for me.

Not that Canon cares but if they do not bring out a good 7D replacement when Nikon announces there crop sensor replacement. I may be looking to change. A pretty hard pill for me to swallow considering the cost of lenses...

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jdavis37
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Re: 5DIII AF - Amazing
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 26, 2012

Will do.. only good glass I have now is a 300 F2.8 + TC's.. will no doubt buy a 500F4 or something of the like if/when I go full frame. D800 would allow me to buy the 200-400F4 + TC and be happy (assuming it performs ) so in some ways D800 is a cheaper overall option for me. Still, I am curious about the 5D3 after hearing so much melancholy about it and have seen some incredible images which do not support the melancholy over more pixels and shadow lifting, the latter of which I certainly can appreciate.since shadows on 7D are a bad bad combination. But wil gladly post my observations about Af, overall image quality and so on. Above ISO400 on 7D can get tricky so we'll see if I can get to a comfortable ISO1600-2500 with 5D3.

Side note.. the D800 4 fps is areal sticking point for me even though it has a 5 fps 1.2 crop mode... the grip plus battery to get to 6 fps in crop don't sound all that good to me

MikeFromMesa wrote:

I also would like you to post your testing results.

I already have my 5D3 but would be curious to know your results. Especially since you clearly have some very nice glass that I don't have. Your results may very well be germane to me as well.

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Peter 13
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Re: Another photo
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 26, 2012

Is that the 100-400? Detail, contrast and bokeh are really bad. Hard to believe that $5k system would produce such an image.

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riknash
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Re: 5DIII AF - Amazing
In reply to MikeFromMesa, Apr 26, 2012

Oh oh. Obviously you didn't know how to use that complicated AF on the 7D plus any any photo you've taken could have been down with a cheap plastic toy camera!

Nice to read someones experiences with the 5DIII support Canons claim that the AF is better than the 7D. Its annoying when I read here opinions that try to suggest the 5DIII is the FF equivalent to the 7D. Its obviously superior in the AF department .

MikeFromMesa wrote:

Most of this thread is concerned with comparisons between the 5D2 and the 5D3 so I am not sure this adds much to that part of this thread.

I, however, have just upgraded from the 7D to the 5D3 and I have to say that I find the AF capabilities of the 5D3 significantly better than the 7D in low light.

Many of my wildlife photos are taken in the late afternoon or early evening and I have found that the 5D3 AF seems capable of locking on to objects much better than the 7D in those light conditions. Add to that the ability of the 5D3 to take much cleaner high ISO photos and I am sold. Just walking around where I live in the early evening and taking random shots of the local rabbits and birds yields far more keepers than the same strolls with the 7D.

I have to say that the (limited) testing I did with the 5D2 also showed much of the same AF ability as the 5D3 in normal light although I assume its high ISO ability is not quite up to the 5D3. But the 5D3 seems to yield about 2-2/12 stops more than the 7D (for equivalent image cleanliness).

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SDRebel
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The details are as shown
In reply to Peter 13, Apr 27, 2012

Sorry you don't like the photography. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like it and I suspect my 1DsIII with the 100-400 lens wouldn't have produced as good a result in the circumstances. So, for less, in my thinking I've gotten more.

Anyway, I'll try harder and next time hope to have a photo of the local parrots that you find more pleasing.

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guitarist
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Re: Spot focus
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 27, 2012

ok
this is some USEFUL info on these forums

thanks

nice birdy

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djmorgan
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Re: The details are as shown
In reply to SDRebel, Apr 27, 2012

SDRebel wrote:

Sorry you don't like the photography. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I like it and I suspect my 1DsIII with the 100-400 lens wouldn't have produced as good a result in the circumstances. So, for less, in my thinking I've gotten more.

Anyway, I'll try harder and next time hope to have a photo of the local parrots that you find more pleasing.

I think you miss the point! you started the thread to pronounce how great the Mk III AF is, it is a great system, but you used an inferior example that could only be used as ammunition by the nikonians and others to denigrate the MK III.

Your example was technically inferior and that has nothing to do with creativity or aesthetics, the Mk II and III can and will do better, you then go on swinging about the virtues of "L" glass like Mk III is the only camera capable of using such lenses, again you have a lot to learn.

David

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SDRebel
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You were being critical of which photo?
In reply to djmorgan, Apr 27, 2012

I appreciate your points.

The fact, however, that I found the 5DIII to be a great improvement over past equipment is a fact. I did and that's the point I made.

I didn't say that you would find it a better camera nor did I say that the example was the prize winner for 2012.

So, my point remains valid and my example demonstrates what I accomplished.

Some didn't like the photo. That's their right. Many were concerned that the photo was slightly blurred. It was. So I posted a second photo to demonstrate that it wasn't the lense or the camera, but the problem was with the operator.

Anyway, what I am finding as I take photos each day is that the 5DIII AF is, in my hands, amazing.

Your photos would probably out distance mine taken with a 50's box camera. That's my cross to bear.

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