X10 with modified sensor: Orb results

Started Apr 26, 2012 | Discussions
Richard Butler
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X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
Apr 26, 2012

We've just been sent an X10 with the promised modified sensor and have tested it for orbs:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/26/Fujifilm-X10-white-orb-update

Our early impressions are that there isn't an obvious change in other aspects of image quality, but we're still checking on that.

Richard - dpreview.com

Fujifilm X10
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Red Bicycle
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

This is fantastic news Richard. Thanks for your efforts and well done Fuji .
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Michael

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alien3333
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

will they replace old units ?

R Butler wrote:

We've just been sent an X10 with the promised modified sensor and have tested it for orbs:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/26/Fujifilm-X10-white-orb-update

Our early impressions are that there isn't an obvious change in other aspects of image quality, but we're still checking on that.

Richard - dpreview.com

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Wellington100
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

R Butler wrote:

We've just been sent an X10 with the promised modified sensor and have tested it for orbs:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/26/Fujifilm-X10-white-orb-update

Our early impressions are that there isn't an obvious change in other aspects of image quality, but we're still checking on that.

Richard - dpreview.com

I am gorbsmacked - the orbs are well and truly gone but when you look at the two images it really looks as though the orbs were artificially laid over the original specular, you can actually see almost identical spokes emanating beyond the orbs as exist in the new image. There was something weird about the orbs.

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dotbalm
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Thanks!
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

Thanks for pushing this through!

Wow.

From the initial test shot, there's an o(r)bvious improvement.

Might even get one now if Fujifilm informs us how to differentiate new X10's with the new sensor vs. new X10's with the old sensor. (If not, then maybe I'll wait for an X11.) Will be watching as it's put through the wringer in the various scenarios which invoked orbs.

This is great preliminary news though.

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Silent Oracle
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

Thanks, Richard.

Kudos to Fuji; they have delivered on their word.

The image appears much less contrasty however, and IMO I think that from what I've viewed here over the last several months, this is one of the draws to the camera from many users here.

It was way too contrasty for my personal taste - but to each, their own. I think it will be a vast improvement, not only in the area of 'no more orbing'.

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Billx08
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

R Butler wrote:

We've just been sent an X10 with the promised modified sensor and have tested it for orbs:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/26/Fujifilm-X10-white-orb-update

Our early impressions are that there isn't an obvious change in other aspects of image quality, but we're still checking on that.

The background of the photo shot using the 'fixed' sensor is a little brighter, especially in the bottom of the frame. Was the DR% the same for both photos? Initially, the Exif Viewer extension for Firefox showed its usual subset of the EXIF data (which wouldn't show DR info), but after saving the images, Exif Tool (whidh does display DR information) showed no EXIF data at all, and trying to view the EXIF data again using Exif Viewer, it was no longer able to display anything. Strange.

In your conversations with Fuji, did they provide answers to the questions many here are asking, which are 1. whether the 'fixed' sensors will be used only for sensor swaps, or 2. will they also be installed in new X10's purchased from dealers, and if so, 3. when will such cameras be available from dealers, and 4. If there's a way to identify cameras with 'fixed' sensors (other than by examining photos for orbs), how can the buyer determine whether the X10 has the 'fixed' or the original sensor. Bonus questions: 5. If any of the answers to questions 1 through 4 differ for the XS-1, what are the differences, and 6. Will sensor swaps only be made available to original purchaser of the cameras, or can anyone (such as a buyer of a used X10 or XS-1) also get the same sensor swap service? Thanks.

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Billx08
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Silent Oracle, Apr 26, 2012

Silent Oracle wrote:

. . .

The image appears much less contrasty however, and IMO I think that from what I've viewed here over the last several months, this is one of the draws to the camera from many users here.

Yes, that was pretty obvious, and that's why I asked about the DR settings which I was (for some odd reason) unable to check.

It was way too contrasty for my personal taste - but to each, their own. I think it will be a vast improvement, not only in the area of 'no more orbing'.

Well, Richard did say that DPR would continue checking for changes in other aspects of image quality, high ISO performance, etc. If the new sensors produce any side effects, welcome or not, I hope that DPR is the first to detect them.

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lightandday
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

Thanks dpr !

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marike6
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Silent Oracle, Apr 26, 2012

Silent Oracle wrote:

Thanks, Richard.

Kudos to Fuji; they have delivered on their word.

The image appears much less contrasty however, and IMO I think that from what I've viewed here over the last several months, this is one of the draws to the camera from many users here.

It was way too contrasty for my personal taste - but to each, their own. I think it will be a vast improvement, not only in the area of 'no more orbing'.

Have you experimented with the D-Range settings. After three days of owning the X10, I've been impressed with RAW images which really take almost no work at all in Lightroom to get looking great. The Standard (Provia) mode, and RAW is working really well. With the new improved sensor, this camera (aside from the subpar video quality) will easily be the top P&S on the market.

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edu T
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Same DR before & after, says Jeffrey
In reply to Billx08, Apr 26, 2012

Billx08 wrote:

. . .Was the DR% the same for both photos? . . .

Yes, "MakerNotes/DevelopmentDynamicRange" = 100%.
Full exif from

Orb-galore-ish X10 sample: http://regex.info/exif.cgi?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F2.s.img-dpreview.com%2Ffiles%2Fnews%2F4785041157%2FDSCF2026.JPG%3Fv%3D1485

Orb-restrained X10 sample: http://regex.info/exif.cgi?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F4.s.img-dpreview.com%2Ffiles%2Fnews%2F4785041157%2FDSCF9724.JPG%3Fv%3D1485
(I believe Jeffrey.)

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Billx08
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Re: Same DR before & after, says Jeffrey
In reply to edu T, Apr 26, 2012

edu T wrote:

Billx08 wrote:

. . .Was the DR% the same for both photos? . . .

Yes, "MakerNotes/DevelopmentDynamicRange" = 100%.
Full exif from

Orb-galore-ish X10 sample: http://regex.info/exif.cgi?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F2.s.img-dpreview.com%2Ffiles%2Fnews%2F4785041157%2FDSCF2026.JPG%3Fv%3D1485

Orb-restrained X10 sample: http://regex.info/exif.cgi?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2F4.s.img-dpreview.com%2Ffiles%2Fnews%2F4785041157%2FDSCF9724.JPG%3Fv%3D1485
(I believe Jeffrey.)

Thanks. That I can see, but I've tried different browsers and none of them are able to save DPR's two X10 JPEGs with the EXIF data. There's no problem dealing with JPEGs from DPR's forums though. Even though I'm not having problems with any other apps, maybe it's time for me to reboot the computer. I'm guessing that XP likes a reboot at least every month or two.

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charita
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Richard Butler, Apr 26, 2012

Well done, Fuji! The orbs have been tamed. So where is the celebration? Only 11 responses in over three hours to this amazing bit of news! The naysayers have obviously retreated to their holes, so it left to the fanboys to lead the cheering. Cheers.
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DS21
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to charita, Apr 26, 2012

charita wrote:

Well done, Fuji! The orbs have been tamed. So where is the celebration? Only 11 responses in over three hours to this amazing bit of news! The naysayers have obviously retreated to their holes, so it left to the fanboys to lead the cheering. Cheers.
--

There is no celebration yet because :

1) It is still not known will Fuji pull back the stock of unsold cameras from the dealers, and swap the sensors (most likely not), this could become quite messy if they start putting new sensors in new stock of X10's (if they are still being made, because a lot of them still unsold), and it gets mixed with old stock.

2) People gave up and moved to other brands.

3) The camera was supposed to be released orb free in first place, so why bravo Fuji now.

4) Naysayers become a lot smarter then fanboys so they don't waste time on forum any more.

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Paul Graber
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to DS21, Apr 26, 2012

The lack of comments so far might just relate to the news breaking in the middle of the night European time!
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Wellington100
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Paul Graber, Apr 26, 2012

Paul Graber wrote:

The lack of comments so far might just relate to the news breaking in the middle of the night European time!

Half the forum, accounting for 80% of the posts ended up being banned over the issue, many of them took up stamp collecting instead

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captura
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Wellington100, Apr 26, 2012

Amazon must still have a lot of the orbiters for sale.

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Wellington100
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Wellington100, Apr 26, 2012

Wellington100 wrote:

R Butler wrote:

We've just been sent an X10 with the promised modified sensor and have tested it for orbs:

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/26/Fujifilm-X10-white-orb-update

Our early impressions are that there isn't an obvious change in other aspects of image quality, but we're still checking on that.

Richard - dpreview.com

I am gorbsmacked - the orbs are well and truly gone but when you look at the two images it really looks as though the orbs were artificially laid over the original specular, you can actually see almost identical spokes emanating beyond the orbs as exist in the new image. There was something weird about the orbs.

I have woken up after tossing and turning all night dreaming of orbs since seeing the DPR images and for the life of me it still looks like the orb was an artifact placed over the bloom, not the bloom itself. The new sensor displays typical radiating patterns we are used to seeing in blooms and all that guff about CMOS sensors producing perfectly sharp blooms, was just that - guff.

Whatever Fuji did to create the orbs, it was a complete own goal and those porkys about the cameras working within tolerances were just that, porkys.

I would be fascinated to know WTF the orbs were but I expect Fuji is shut up tighter than Fort Knox over the issue.

Still, the X10 looks like it might dominate the compact market for the remainder of the year and hopefully into the future, the opposition have not come up with anything to knock it off its perch, the bigger and heavier Canon G1X is really a new category of camera and is priced accordingly. The X10 is £379 on Amazon which is probably almost right for the best compact camera in the world (with the orb fix)

The retro styling, weight and proportions of the Fuji is not just funky, it is incredibly ergonomic and other new cameras always feel clunky and look inelegant side by side with the X10.

Go Fuji.

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Wellington100
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to captura, Apr 26, 2012

captura wrote:

Amazon must still have a lot of the orbiters for sale.

Fortunately Amazon can afford to absORB the stock heh heh

I will miss all the orb jokes, puns and jests, sadly too many became orbsessed and their user names have gone to the great orb in sky, forever.

Yesterday I had a play with an X10 in a store in Cape Town, here Fuji remains popular and there are a number if camera stores offering Fuji printing services that also sell their cameras. The X10 is a truly beautiful piece of kit. There is simply nothing remotely like it in the compact arena.

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kludgie
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Re: X10 with modified sensor: Orb results
In reply to Wellington100, Apr 26, 2012

Think I'll listen to The Orb's seminal U.F.Orb to celebrate.

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