I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.

Started Apr 25, 2012 | Discussions
dotborg
Veteran MemberPosts: 7,371
Like?
I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
Apr 25, 2012

It's a seriously cool camera - dedicated manual controls, bright prime lenses, great image quality and it looks good too. I could just cancel my E-M5 pre-order and snap one up.

Unfortunately, there are some problems:

  • AF is not nearly as good as my E-P3. I could probably live with this.

  • No third party raw software supports it. This will likely change in the near future.

  • The display freezes during AF....

That last point is the real issue for me. There's just no way I could live with that.

Oh well, I guess I'll keep my E-M5 pre-order.

-- hide signature --
Fujifilm X-Pro1 Olympus PEN E-P3
If you believe there are incorrect tags, please send us this post using our feedback form.
stimmer
Veteran MemberPosts: 5,137
Like?
Too many issues for a 1700 dollar camera..
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

That is just way too expensive for a niche camera.

No lenses, very average movie mode(after watching the Steve Huff video), and sluggish autofocus.

Sure the image quality is good, but it's ridiculous for a $2300 investment to have anything less than top notch performance.

$2300 bucks should buy you a top notch camera with absolutely no compromise whatsoever.

Em5 is a much better value, and I don't even really think there is much of a difference in the practical image quality, save a little bit better bokeh. But I say get the 75 1.8 and just move back a little and it fixes that problem.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
snapper1967
Contributing MemberPosts: 673
Like?
Re: Too many issues for a 1700 dollar camera..
In reply to stimmer, Apr 25, 2012

The image quality can't be beat. I owned one for a week. Now have the OMD em5. I'm still jealous when I see the pics I took with the fuji.

I just did not like the feel of camera in my hand and the slow AF. Chattering lenses never bothered me. I will buy this sensor in another camera in a heart beat!

-- hide signature --

Just enjoy what you do.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Henry Richardson
Forum ProPosts: 12,638
Like?
Re: I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

I have played with one several times and it is a very nice camera for people who want AF in a Leica style of camera. The AF is a bit slow compared to the G3 I bought recently and the EM-5. The AF speed seemed similar to using the Panasonic 20mm f1.7, but I didn't compare them side-by-side. If you use the OVF rather than the EVF there wouldn't be a freeze when using AF, but I hope Fuji can fix this soon in a firmware update. The camera is fairly large, but feels good. Not for me though. Fuji, like Olympus, needs to get a firmware update out soon to fix bugs in their respective new cameras.

It is much, much, much cheaper than a Leica M9.

-- hide signature --

Henry Richardson
http://www.bakubo.com

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Don Erway
Contributing MemberPosts: 998
Like?
Re: I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

The display freezing is much less important with an optical view finder. But still, way to expensive, bad AF, not enough lenses.
--
Don Erway
http://picasaweb.google.com/onederway
http://www.pbase.com/derway

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
amalric
Forum ProPosts: 10,551
Like?
Irrational...
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

I tried one for ten minutes and then saw the samples. I think it has actually less resolution than the E-M5.

What it has is a film signature, both in colours and dynamic range, inspired by Fuji films, that stopped being produced yesterday.

The E-M5 has everything else for a v. good price, including resolution - and its own beautiful signature. So why even bother?

Am.
--
Photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/amalric

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dzeanah
Regular MemberPosts: 274
Like?
I just don't get the complaints
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

I see a lot of complaints, and I just don't understand them. I'm guessing it's because I'm a bit older, learned photography with film and a darkroom, and have different expectations. Still...

The display freezes during AF...

It's meant to be used with the optical viewfinder. The EVF exists to do things that rangefinders traditionally couldn't do (macro, composing with lenses longer than a 90mm equivalent, etc.) It's there, but it's a secondary usage mode. If you want an EVF then don't pay this much more for a hybrid optical finder.

No lenses

That's one way to look at it. The other would be "available from introduction with a complete range (28mm, 50mm, and 90mm equivalents) of fast glass that competes with the best designs currently available." With my Leica I did everything with a 35/2, 50/2, 90/4, and 15/4.5. If I could have afforded faster glass, or a 21mm instead of a 15mm (coming out at the end of the year for Fuji) I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

If you're a prime lens kind of person this is a complete kit. I'd like something wider, but there's a whole lot you can do with this 3 lens range. It's certainly not "no lenses" in my mind.

very average movie mode

It's a still camera.

and sluggish autofocus

It takes about a second to focus in low light (wide open, 1/30s, ISO 6400 low light.) There are certainly faster cameras out there, but that's nothing to be ashamed of at all. It's certainly very workable -- faster than many manual cameras that have been used to produce outstanding work for decades.

Sure the image quality is good, but it's ridiculous for a $2300 investment to have anything less than top notch performance.

OK. What gives better performance for $2,300? I'd argue nothing (fast lens, great rendering, outstanding sensor). To get better you're talking about a much bigger camera (something like an A900 with Zeiss primes that cost twice what the Fuji lenses cost), or more expensive (price out one Leica M9 with a 50mm ASPH Summilux then come back and talk about "expensive,") or give something significant up (fast max aperture mainly.)

$2300 bucks should buy you a top notch camera with absolutely no compromise whatsoever.

Name a $2,300 camera that has no compromises whatsoever. Or a $25,000 camera that has no compromises whatsoever. I'd say "I'll wait" but I know you won't come back.

We live in the real world, where compromise is king. There are lots of trade-offs involved in building something like an X Pro 1, or am OM-D. There have to be. Any choice you make excludes all other choices, so if there are consequences to that choice then you've made a compromise.

Em5 is a much better value, and I don't even really think there is much of a difference in the practical image quality, save a little bit better bokeh. But I say get the 75 1.8 and just move back a little and it fixes that problem.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

-- hide signature --

Derek

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
dzeanah
Regular MemberPosts: 274
Like?
And, part 2
In reply to dzeanah, Apr 25, 2012

I should probably stop arguing on the Internet, but I'll try again. The camera we're talking about here is a fringe camera -- it's not designed to appeal to the greatest number of photographers. It's designed to appeal to those who can appreciate it for what it is, and it's outstanding at what it does. Here's my take on the camera:

  • Offer affordable lenses that are best in class or nearly so. At a price point of $600 they've done an outstanding job.

  • Design a viewfinder that's as pleasant to use as a traditional rangefinder, but that overcomes the traditional rangefinder's flaws. Nailed it. Movable focus points, histogram in the finder, available EVF when necessary (hey - macro without a Visoflex!), ability to chimp without moving one's eye from the finder, etc.

  • Build a no compromise sensor. Ignore what I said about compromise above. No AA filter, 16 megapixels, no moire. Not bad.

  • Retain traditional Fuji color. Nailed it.

  • Produce easy to work with JPEGs. I don't know that these will take the mangling that the old S5 JPEGs would, as the tools have improved so much since Lightooom 1, but it's hard to believe we're giving up much here.

  • Retain the simple controls that dominated photography for the latter half of the last century. This is as easy to use as my old Canon A1. Aperture control to A = shutter priority, shutter to A = aperture priority, both to A = program. Add in EV shift and you're there. Simple and easy to understand.

  • Keep the whole kit small and lightweight. It's not as nice as a Leica as far as portability, but it's not bad.

Fuji reimagined what the rangefinder could be in the digital age, and I really think they nailed it.

The biggest criticism seems to be "it's not a DSLR, and it doesn't try to be one." Rangefinders aren't mainstream tools. If you wouldn't pick up an M6, or a G2, or a Hexar, or a Bessa to shoot film with, then you probably shouldn't pick up an X Pro 1. It can do weddings, and reportage, and street photography, and macro, and landscapes, and pretty much everything. In order to do so, however, you're going to have to learn the camera, master its controls, and work around its weaknesses and idiosyncrasies.

It can do great in low light even taking a second to focus. If you can shoot in low light with a manual camera, you can do better with this camera IMO. It does better than my Fuji S5 Pro does, and that did quite a few weddings (and dark receptions.) It's not OM-D "ohmygawdthatisAMAZING" fast at focusing, but it doesn't need to be. Or at least, it doesn't need to be for most of us. If it needs to be for you then the tools you require have been unavailable for most of your life, and I'm sorry you had to wait.

The OM-D is a better system camera. I'd argue the OM-D is a better camera for most people, just like a Canon (or Nikon) F series camera was better for most people than a Leica M4-2. That's not a criticism, either.

They're different tools. If you're not willing to put in the time to master it and learn how to make it do what you want it to, then you'd do better with a different tool.

That's not the same thing as saying the tool is broken, however.
--
Derek

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TrapperJohn
Forum ProPosts: 10,239
Like?
I do like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

They had one in the camera store where I got my EM5. Got to play around with it.

It's a sweet setup, for the niche it fills. Gorgeous lenses, nice size, sort of a budget Leica with AF.

But... I didn't get one. Not because of any flaws, but because it's more of a specialized tool, whereas the EM5 is general purpose with its wider variety of lenses, EVF, battery grip, and a few other options.

For the sort of still life/street/landscape photography where the Fuji excels, you don't really need fast AF or extensive VF options.

I admire that setup, just don't have the budget for it.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
javaone360
Regular MemberPosts: 114Gear list
Like?
Re: And, part 2
In reply to dzeanah, Apr 25, 2012

Agree ... The product (X-mount) is positioned in a different market. That is why many people said it is expensive. EM-5 is a good system in its class. Specially, it has advanced the mFT system to a new stage.

dzeanah wrote:

I should probably stop arguing on the Internet, but I'll try again. The camera we're talking about here is a fringe camera -- it's not designed to appeal to the greatest number of photographers. It's designed to appeal to those who can appreciate it for what it is, and it's outstanding at what it does. Here's my take on the camera:

  • Offer affordable lenses that are best in class or nearly so. At a price point of $600 they've done an outstanding job.

  • Design a viewfinder that's as pleasant to use as a traditional rangefinder, but that overcomes the traditional rangefinder's flaws. Nailed it. Movable focus points, histogram in the finder, available EVF when necessary (hey - macro without a Visoflex!), ability to chimp without moving one's eye from the finder, etc.

  • Build a no compromise sensor. Ignore what I said about compromise above. No AA filter, 16 megapixels, no moire. Not bad.

  • Retain traditional Fuji color. Nailed it.

  • Produce easy to work with JPEGs. I don't know that these will take the mangling that the old S5 JPEGs would, as the tools have improved so much since Lightooom 1, but it's hard to believe we're giving up much here.

  • Retain the simple controls that dominated photography for the latter half of the last century. This is as easy to use as my old Canon A1. Aperture control to A = shutter priority, shutter to A = aperture priority, both to A = program. Add in EV shift and you're there. Simple and easy to understand.

  • Keep the whole kit small and lightweight. It's not as nice as a Leica as far as portability, but it's not bad.

Fuji reimagined what the rangefinder could be in the digital age, and I really think they nailed it.

The biggest criticism seems to be "it's not a DSLR, and it doesn't try to be one." Rangefinders aren't mainstream tools. If you wouldn't pick up an M6, or a G2, or a Hexar, or a Bessa to shoot film with, then you probably shouldn't pick up an X Pro 1. It can do weddings, and reportage, and street photography, and macro, and landscapes, and pretty much everything. In order to do so, however, you're going to have to learn the camera, master its controls, and work around its weaknesses and idiosyncrasies.

It can do great in low light even taking a second to focus. If you can shoot in low light with a manual camera, you can do better with this camera IMO. It does better than my Fuji S5 Pro does, and that did quite a few weddings (and dark receptions.) It's not OM-D "ohmygawdthatisAMAZING" fast at focusing, but it doesn't need to be. Or at least, it doesn't need to be for most of us. If it needs to be for you then the tools you require have been unavailable for most of your life, and I'm sorry you had to wait.

The OM-D is a better system camera. I'd argue the OM-D is a better camera for most people, just like a Canon (or Nikon) F series camera was better for most people than a Leica M4-2. That's not a criticism, either.

They're different tools. If you're not willing to put in the time to master it and learn how to make it do what you want it to, then you'd do better with a different tool.

That's not the same thing as saying the tool is broken, however.
--
Derek

 javaone360's gear list:javaone360's gear list
Ricoh GR Fujifilm X-Pro1 Nikon D800 Nikon 1 V1 Fujifilm X-T1 +26 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
TEBnewyork
Forum ProPosts: 11,193
Like?
Excellent
In reply to dzeanah, Apr 25, 2012

This is a great post. You nailed it.

-- hide signature --
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
DarkShift
Regular MemberPosts: 208Gear list
Like?
Rangefinders are ugly
In reply to Don Erway, Apr 25, 2012

The rangefinder style OVFs are just plain awfull to use for other than few Leica purists

Inaccurate framing and you can see the lens through it. Not for me.

 DarkShift's gear list:DarkShift's gear list
Nikon D800 Olympus OM-D E-M5 Canon EOS 5D Mark III Sony Alpha 7R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Sergey Borachev
Senior MemberPosts: 2,477Gear list
Like?
It's such a pity
In reply to DarkShift, Apr 25, 2012

If Fuji had decided instead to release an M43 mirrorless, it would have been a completely different scenario now. It's such a pity they did not.

Some of their innovation like EXR and the new sensor cell pattern would have been great in a camera that can use all the M43 lenses. Maybe it is still possible, as there is a definite gap between Fuji's fixed lens cameras and this X-Pro1 MILC. I believe Fuji is already a member of M43 and I also believe it has been fiddling way too long trying all sorts of fringe/niche camera lines (not talking about P&S). For all its resources and significant innovations, it has still not managed to do something proper to get its cameras into the mainstream and become more relevant. What a pity!

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Ray Sachs
Senior MemberPosts: 8,722Gear list
Like?
Complaining that the display freezes on an X-Pro 1 is like...
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

...complaining a formula 1 car doesnt seat five very comfortably or complaining that caviar doesn't taste like chocolate or that the philharmonic doesnt rock as hard as the local metal band or that drinking tequila doesn't quench your thirst as well as water (and it's such a premium product compared to water - wo would ever PAY so much?!?!). Or perhaps complaining about the lack of auto-focus on a Leica...

It means you're missing the point of the X-Pro 1. If you don't like using the OVF, you shouldn't even consider the camera. The EVF and LCD are there for those rare situations when the OVF won't work (really close focus, shooting from an odd angle, when you Ned to use critical manual focus, etc). Ttheyre options and theyre good options, but theyre there dor situations where you're probably not foing to encounter particularly fast moving subjects where the momentary freeze is a problem (and it doesn't happen in manual focus anyway - not that I particularly recommend manual focus except for zone focus anyway). If you don't like the OVF shooting experience to begin with, don't buy that camera. And of course for the 90% or more of the time most X-Pro 1 owners use the OVF, there's a hell of a lot less freeze and lag and smearing and gain related noise than you get in even the best EVF in existence.

Buy the right camera for your needs and you probably won't need to complain about it's lack of perfection. The X-Pro 1 isn't perfect. Neither is the OMD or D800 or Leica or..... But it does what it's designed to do very very well. If that's for you great! If not, great!

-Ray
-------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/collections/72157626204295198/

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Hen3ry
Senior MemberPosts: 8,588Gear list
Like?
I lke the concept and the general appearance, but...
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

…it’s just too big and heavy for me. And anyway, I want zooms these days (with one or two honorable exceptions -- one of which is a f3.5 9mm pancake, unfortunately not produced by anyone!).

Cheers, geoff
--
Geoffrey Heard
http://pngtimetraveller.blogspot.com/2011/10/return-to-karai-komana_31.html

 Hen3ry's gear list:Hen3ry's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-G6 Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH Olympus M.Zuiko Digital 45mm 1:1.8 Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 9-18mm 1:4.0-5.6 Panasonic Lumix G Vario 45-150mm F4-5.6 ASPH Mega OIS +5 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
intruder61
Senior MemberPosts: 2,557Gear list
Like?
Re: I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

dotborg wrote:

It's a seriously cool camera - dedicated manual controls, bright prime lenses, great image quality and it looks good too. I could just cancel my E-M5 pre-order and snap one up.

Unfortunately, there are some problems:

  • AF is not nearly as good as my E-P3. I could probably live with this.

  • No third party raw software supports it. This will likely change in the near future.

  • The display freezes during AF....

That last point is the real issue for me. There's just no way I could live with that.

Oh well, I guess I'll keep my E-M5 pre-order.

-- hide signature --

the XP1 is for purists......best you stick with the OMD.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
lovely_bear29
New MemberPosts: 15
Like?
Re: I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
In reply to intruder61, Apr 25, 2012

I hate slow focusing and hate missing the shots; that's why I'll never touch fuji again.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Louis_Dobson
Forum ProPosts: 26,387
Like?
Re: Too many issues for a 1700 dollar camera..
In reply to stimmer, Apr 25, 2012

An interesting point made elsewhere in this forum is that the way to get high stills quality is to slow down the sensor read rate (which gives the ADC time to do the job properly). This might explain the lousy movie mode (fine, take movie mode off altogether, I have no use for it), the freezing display (I could live with that for a reason) and the slow AF (that's a problem....)

In fact if they had all the lenses I wanted I'd buy an X-Pro1 instantly. Seems like a great camera. And if those flaws picked up are the cause of excellent image quality rather than just Fuji being useless, I'll embrace them.

It may be time for a campaign to get quality-destroying poxy movie modes off still cameras, but we need to know a bit more about it first.

stimmer wrote:

That is just way too expensive for a niche camera.

No lenses, very average movie mode(after watching the Steve Huff video), and sluggish autofocus.

Sure the image quality is good, but it's ridiculous for a $2300 investment to have anything less than top notch performance.

$2300 bucks should buy you a top notch camera with absolutely no compromise whatsoever.

Em5 is a much better value, and I don't even really think there is much of a difference in the practical image quality, save a little bit better bokeh. But I say get the 75 1.8 and just move back a little and it fixes that problem.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Louis_Dobson
Forum ProPosts: 26,387
Like?
Re: I just don't get the complaints
In reply to dzeanah, Apr 25, 2012

While I kind of agree, the reality is that only a small subset of even "real photographers" use no specialist lenses at all. I certainly can't live with a 28, a 50 and fairly slow 90. I need a UWA.

Otherwise I'd go buy one - seems like a great camera.

And yes, cheap too.

dzeanah wrote:

I see a lot of complaints, and I just don't understand them. I'm guessing it's because I'm a bit older, learned photography with film and a darkroom, and have different expectations. Still...

The display freezes during AF...

It's meant to be used with the optical viewfinder. The EVF exists to do things that rangefinders traditionally couldn't do (macro, composing with lenses longer than a 90mm equivalent, etc.) It's there, but it's a secondary usage mode. If you want an EVF then don't pay this much more for a hybrid optical finder.

No lenses

That's one way to look at it. The other would be "available from introduction with a complete range (28mm, 50mm, and 90mm equivalents) of fast glass that competes with the best designs currently available." With my Leica I did everything with a 35/2, 50/2, 90/4, and 15/4.5. If I could have afforded faster glass, or a 21mm instead of a 15mm (coming out at the end of the year for Fuji) I would have taken it in a heartbeat.

If you're a prime lens kind of person this is a complete kit. I'd like something wider, but there's a whole lot you can do with this 3 lens range. It's certainly not "no lenses" in my mind.

very average movie mode

It's a still camera.

and sluggish autofocus

It takes about a second to focus in low light (wide open, 1/30s, ISO 6400 low light.) There are certainly faster cameras out there, but that's nothing to be ashamed of at all. It's certainly very workable -- faster than many manual cameras that have been used to produce outstanding work for decades.

Sure the image quality is good, but it's ridiculous for a $2300 investment to have anything less than top notch performance.

OK. What gives better performance for $2,300? I'd argue nothing (fast lens, great rendering, outstanding sensor). To get better you're talking about a much bigger camera (something like an A900 with Zeiss primes that cost twice what the Fuji lenses cost), or more expensive (price out one Leica M9 with a 50mm ASPH Summilux then come back and talk about "expensive,") or give something significant up (fast max aperture mainly.)

$2300 bucks should buy you a top notch camera with absolutely no compromise whatsoever.

Name a $2,300 camera that has no compromises whatsoever. Or a $25,000 camera that has no compromises whatsoever. I'd say "I'll wait" but I know you won't come back.

We live in the real world, where compromise is king. There are lots of trade-offs involved in building something like an X Pro 1, or am OM-D. There have to be. Any choice you make excludes all other choices, so if there are consequences to that choice then you've made a compromise.

Em5 is a much better value, and I don't even really think there is much of a difference in the practical image quality, save a little bit better bokeh. But I say get the 75 1.8 and just move back a little and it fixes that problem.

Whatever you need to tell yourself.

-- hide signature --

Derek

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Iliah Borg
Forum ProPosts: 15,896
Like?
Re: I really wanted to like the Fujifilm X-Pro1.
In reply to dotborg, Apr 25, 2012

The biggest problem with many cameramakers is that they do not listen to real world, and have very limited beta testing, which, on top of it, involves only those with "nice attitude" as it is determined by company standards.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads