Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer

Started Apr 25, 2012 | Discussions
engbert
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Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
Apr 25, 2012

These were taken from the car window within a minute or so, with the HX200v and a Nikon D7000 with Sigma 50-500mm. Distance about 20 feet.

I suspect the Kildeer was sitting on a nest.
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Nikon D7000 Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX200V
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Hooterville
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to engbert, Apr 25, 2012

Which camera produced the best picture?

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Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX100V Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX200V Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX30V Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 +1 more
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aaanouel
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EXIF...
In reply to engbert, Apr 25, 2012

Nice test.

I would be nice to be able to watch the EXIF info to know focal distances and other settings and details.
Txs4Sharing
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The dead past darkens the ever living present.

Corrections and critics are more than very welcome, desirables.

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ASR45
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to engbert, Apr 25, 2012

we call these alike Ringed plovers, nice shot
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Stephen McDonald
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to ASR45, Apr 25, 2012

The HX200V shot has just a bit more contrast and better exposure.
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engbert
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to Hooterville, Apr 28, 2012

The second shot was the D7000.
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Bill Borne
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Re: EXIF...
In reply to aaanouel, Apr 28, 2012

aaanouel wrote:

Nice test.

I would be nice to be able to watch the EXIF info to know focal distances and other settings and details.

HX200 Exif
[Image]
Make = SONY
Model = DSC-HX200V
X Resolution = 240
Y Resolution = 240
Resolution Unit = inch
Software = Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4.0 (Windows)
Date Time = 2012-04-24 18:36:44
Exif IFD Pointer = Offset: 216
GPS Info IFD Pointer = Offset: 750

[Camera]
Exposure Time = 1/400"
F Number = F5.6
Exposure Program = Aperture priority
ISO Speed Ratings = 100
8830 = 2
8832 = 100
Exif Version = 30, 32, 33, 30
Date Time Original = 2012-04-23 12:58:34
Date Time Digitized = 2012-04-23 12:58:34
Shutter Speed Value = 8.64 TV
Aperture Value = 4.97 AV
Brightness Value = 9.61 BV
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Max Aperture Value = F5.6
Metering Mode = CenterWeightedAverage
Light Source = unknown
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 143.29mm
File Source = DSC
Scene Type = A directly photographed image
Custom Rendered = Normal process
Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
White Balance = Auto white balance
Digital Zoom Ratio = 1x
Scene Capture Type = Normal
Contrast = Normal
Saturation = Normal
Sharpness = Normal
A432 = 480/100, 14400/100, 28/10, 56/10
A434 = 4.8-144.0 mm f/2.8-5.6

Nikon D700 Exif
[Image]
Make = NIKON CORPORATION
Model = NIKON D7000
X Resolution = 240
Y Resolution = 240
Resolution Unit = inch
Software = Adobe Photoshop Lightroom 4.0 (Windows)
Date Time = 2012-04-24 18:37:19
Exif IFD Pointer = Offset: 216

[Camera]
Exposure Time = 1/1000"
F Number = F6.3
Exposure Program = Aperture priority
ISO Speed Ratings = 220
8830 = 2
Exif Version = 30, 32, 33, 30
Date Time Original = 2012-04-23 12:56:49
Date Time Digitized = 2012-04-23 12:56:49
Shutter Speed Value = 9.97 TV
Aperture Value = 5.31 AV
Exposure Bias Value = ±0EV
Max Aperture Value = F6.28
Metering Mode = Pattern
Light Source = unknown
Flash = Flash did not fire, compulsory flash mode
Focal Length = 500mm
Subsec Time Original = 0.80"
Subsec Time Digitized = 0.80"
Sensing Method = One-chip color area sensor
File Source = DSC
Scene Type = A directly photographed image
CFA Pattern = [R,G],
[G,B]
Custom Rendered = Normal process
Exposure Mode = Auto exposure
White Balance = Auto white balance
Digital Zoom Ratio = 1x
Focal Length In 35mm Film = 750mm
Scene Capture Type = Normal
Gain Control = None
Contrast = Normal
Saturation = Normal
Sharpness = Normal
Subject Distance Range = unknown

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Sam_Oslo
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to engbert, Apr 28, 2012

Nice test

It's really amazing how much more you have to pay to get a little better shot. I bet that Sigma 50-500mm alone costs 5-times more that the whole Hx200v.

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Hutchman
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to engbert, Apr 28, 2012

Very nice one of my favorite birds, I think you are right about the nest.

Interesting comparison between cameras apart from the different backgrounds I see no difference in the detail of the bird.

Cheers

John
'Hutchings

Galleries at http://hutchman.smugmug.com/

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shuttervelocity
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to Hutchman, Apr 28, 2012

Love the bokeh of the Nikon pic. The hx200v pic seems a bit overexposed. For me the second picture is the clear winner.

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engbert
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to Sam_Oslo, Apr 30, 2012

Not quite 5x. The Sigma 50-500mm OS $f4.5 to f6.3 goes for about $1,500. And you can now get a Nikon d7000 for about $1,200 - much less than when it first appeared.

This pair shows the difference at its least. We have a sitting bird in good light with no obstructing twigs.

More difficult situations make the bigger rig more worthwhile. Birds in flight you can capture sometimes with the Sony, but almost always with the Nikon. When the twigs interfere with the autofocus, you can manually focus much faster with the Nikon.

In contrasty scenes, the dynamic range of the Nikon is much greater, so that without having to resort to special HDR techiques, either in the camera or in post, you get good nighlights and shadows. This is especially with RAW and the latest version of Adobe Camera Raw, used in bothe Photoshop and Lghtroom.

You can fire off several shots almost instantly with the Nikon, with no blackout period as in the Sony.

I have not tried large prints of these, but if you want something like 16x20" I predict you would really see a difference. But I still thought people might be interested to see, in ideal situations, how close they are.

I do get tired of carrying the bigger rig on 4 or 5 mile walks, so that is my main reason for having the Sony as well. But it is not a true replacement. The long zoom sometimes permits identification even when the picture is not much use for anything else.

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wb2trf
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to engbert, Apr 30, 2012

This is an excellent illustration of the fact that it is almost pointless to carry big gear in bright light. There is a huge lack of recognition of this on this site, with mere pockets that are exceptions.

In this shot the subject was fairly close, but if you need 800mm to get a reasonable image size there is a huge "get the shot" advantage to a superzoom. Yes, if you get the shot and are carrying FF gear with a tripod and all the weight your IQ will be somewhat better, obviously not much, but you have an excellent chance of missing the shot entirely compared to a superzoom.

In my view, large sensors make sense only in dim light where low N will keep the S/N ratio good. In bright light S/N will be good with a small sensor and high S. The rest is details and handling.

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engbert
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to wb2trf, May 1, 2012

wb2trf wrote:

This is an excellent illustration of the fact that it is almost pointless to carry big gear in bright light. There is a huge lack of recognition of this on this site, with mere pockets that are exceptions.

In this shot the subject was fairly close, but if you need 800mm to get a reasonable image size there is a huge "get the shot" advantage to a superzoom. Yes, if you get the shot and are carrying FF gear with a tripod and all the weight your IQ will be somewhat better, obviously not much, but you have an excellent chance of missing the shot entirely compared to a superzoom.

In my view, large sensors make sense only in dim light where low N will keep the S/N ratio good. In bright light S/N will be good with a small sensor and high S. The rest is details and handling.

The D7000 will get the bird much more reliably with its much more sophisticated 51 sensor AF system and much simpler direct mechanical manual focus. This may not be quite as important if you are not birding.
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shuttervelocity
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to wb2trf, May 1, 2012

wb2trf wrote:

This is an excellent illustration of the fact that it is almost pointless to carry big gear in bright light.

Totally agree. but a bright light conditions can change so very quickly that its better to have an all-round performance gear. We went hiking and i took several great pictures in the light with the hx9v. but buried in the shade, there was a bluejay which I wanted a picture of and the picture came out grainy and totally overexposed.

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wb2trf
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to engbert, May 1, 2012

engbert wrote:

The D7000 will get the bird much more reliably with its much more sophisticated 51 sensor AF system and much simpler direct mechanical manual focus. This may not be quite as important if you are not birding.

I think that is an unsupportable level of generalization. Whether it will get the shot more reliably is dependent on how long a lens you need. Once you are into the 500mm (750equiv) you are pretty much tripod restricted with any APS-C class sensor (eg. A tamron 250-500 weighs 3lbs and is 9 inches long, approx.) For flying birds, for example raptors or water birds (who aren't nesting, where you can predict their return point), a lot of potential shots will be missed just because of the need for tripod and the bulk of the rig as a whole. Secondly I find that the HX-100V will focus fast enough on a flying large bird to get it often, whereas if I'm constrained to tripod I see a lot of shots I can't get due to the comparative difficulty of moving and, I don't move around as much and miss shots that way. I find that these immobility constraints are far larger than any focus speed differences between PDAF and the CDAF in the HX-100V.

I don't question that each size increase in the sensor produces (slightly) better images in bright light (as your post shows) but a great improvement at higher iso. I also don't question that if you can work with about 300mm or less, the portability advantage of the superzoom is not so great. But, above that range I think you'll get more shots per unit time of shooting and miss fewer opportunities with the superzoom. Remember also that APS-C is just one point on a scale of choices between portability and IQ, at the low end of the sensor size range for nature pros. For bright light hobby shooting I think the superzooms are raising a question about the tradeoffs at the APS-C size.

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wb2trf
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to shuttervelocity, May 1, 2012

shuttervelocity wrote:

wb2trf wrote:

This is an excellent illustration of the fact that it is almost pointless to carry big gear in bright light.

Totally agree. but a bright light conditions can change so very quickly that its better to have an all-round performance gear. We went hiking and i took several great pictures in the light with the hx9v. but buried in the shade, there was a bluejay which I wanted a picture of and the picture came out grainy and totally overexposed.

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Sam

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wb2trf
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to shuttervelocity, May 1, 2012

shuttervelocity wrote:

wb2trf wrote:

This is an excellent illustration of the fact that it is almost pointless to carry big gear in bright light.

Totally agree. but a bright light conditions can change so very quickly that its better to have an all-round performance gear. We went hiking and i took several great pictures in the light with the hx9v. but buried in the shade, there was a bluejay which I wanted a picture of and the picture came out grainy and totally overexposed.

I agree that for woodland perching birds you are sometimes better off with a larger sensor camera because a) woodlands produce deep shadows, b) you can often get close enough to the bird, (compared to shooting water birds or flying raptors) that you don't need a very long lens and so the portability disadvantage of the sensor/lens size is reduced.

If you are going out to shoot in a field (as the OP) or shoreline your choice is tripod and 4-5 pounds of camera/lens or superzoom. I think the superzoom is underrated here for its shot getting value because of big gear bias on this site. I think the OP helps to make that point.

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ASR45
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Re: Hx200v and D7000, Kildeer
In reply to Stephen McDonald, May 2, 2012

Sorry i dont see it stephen

Stephen McDonald wrote:

The HX200V shot has just a bit more contrast and better exposure.
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Stephen McDonald
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Ultrazoom Cameras Can Do Well in Shade
In reply to shuttervelocity, May 2, 2012

wb2trf wrote:

This is an excellent illustration of the fact that it is almost pointless to carry big gear in bright light.

Shutter Velocity wrote:

Totally agree. but a bright light conditions can change so very quickly that its better to have an all-round performance gear. We went hiking and i took several great pictures in the light with the hx9v. but buried in the shade, there was a bluejay which I wanted a picture of and the picture came out grainy and totally overexposed.

If the HX9 blurred its shots in shade, it's probably because the shutter-speed was slow and you had no means to hold the camera steady enough. The Sony HX-Series is close to being the best all-around group of cameras. You don't need a D-SLR to get birdshots in the shade, if you can use a slow shutter.

Here are two bird photos that were taken with my HX1, in deep shade. The first was done at 81 minutes before sunset. The ISO was at 125 and the shutter was 1/10th-sec. with full zoom. The second shot was taken 177 minutes before sunset, with the ISO on 400 and the shutter at 1/40th-sec. and zoom at 61%. The EV was on minus .3-stop for both.

There was a solid wall of shrubs and trees that blocked all direct sunlight and the Sun was about 40 to 60 degrees away from straight behind the subjects. I used one of my shoulder-mounts and I'll admit that I took half a dozen shots of each, with these two coming out sharper. It doesn't appear that the higher ISO on the second shot damaged it too much and it allowed the shutter to be faster.

Sony HX1

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wb2trf
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Love those photos
In reply to Stephen McDonald, May 2, 2012

Those are both very charming photos.

I find 400 to be just about the top end of the readily acceptable ISO on the HX100V. Since you went to such lengths to keep the ISO down, I assume you must have a similar view. The 400 iso shot here is fine, as I would expect.

Nice work.

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